Retiring Females

[Gracy]

Sorry to confuse everyone......
I just want to straighten everyone up, about this thread.

I started this thread to get imput about retiring one of my females.
It turned into other questions, as placing a Retired Female.
WRONG !!!!!!!!!!!!
Just wanted some imput. Why would I be so cold hearted to place my devouted Tallulah Belle.
I didn't know how off the subject this would end up.
I have found information on the internet.
Thanks anyways

[SoCalyorkiLvr]

Originally Posted by sylvan

Kim, you seem to have flip flopped yet again, since you were touting the benefits of raising dogs in a large pack environment before and now you are questioning the ability of Pat to properly care for her dogs. How many does Wallace Haven have sitting on his lap each night?

I don't know what "flip flopping" is (I heard the republicans accuse Kerry of this over and over during the Presidential campaign when in reality it was Bush who was not conssitent in his opinions and arguments) but I have no problem with someone changing their opinion on an issue when they are convinced that their original opinion is no longer the correct one for them. I am open minded and quite often am influenced into changing my opinion when the evidence is strong enough to persuade me. I am not so prideful that I cannot change.

THAT SAID, I have NOT CHANGED MY OPINION in this area. I still am convinced, as are all the experts and dog behaviorists, that dogs are pack animals and they prefer dogs to people. A "pack" can be as little as two dogs. Nowhere did I ever say "large pack environments" as you insinuated I did.....I do believe that having more than one dog is in the best interests of the dog but I stand by my assetion that no one should own more dogs than they can properly care for. That number will depend on the individual and the other demands in their life but I do not believe in caging animals, and by "caging" I mean small enclosures which are only just big enough for the dog to lay down and have food and water. I think this is what you refer to as "kenneling". I do not agree with "crate training" for this reason. I do not want to get into that debate however!!

I think if you have 6 people in your family tht every one of them can have a dog and even two and the dogs will get the attention they deserve probably. That could be as many as 12 dogs in one house. If you have a breeding operation and you hire people to work for you then this is also manageable but a one person operation needs to seriously look at the time constraints and their ability to do right by the dogs.

I believe that only going outside once a month is cruel. I am not sure that not taking them for walks means they never go outside (it might for some breeders) but that would be very sad in my opinion.

Do the dogs receive training as in the kind necessary to make them happy and feel valuable which all dogs need? Are they taught obedience? I know that Caesar Milan would feel that is not healthy to have a dog that never gets "walked". That is such an important part of their development and training to be able to be happy as dogs in a human world and to know their boundaries and have guidelines set. What about the dog park? I cannot imagine a 4 year old dog that had never been to the dog park to play.

As for Wallace Haven, he may not have any more sitting on his lap than the average yorkie breeder, but his dogs live in packs, they are in large enclosures, large outside areas for exercise and play, they have circulating fresh water, quality food, vet care on site and are very well cared for. Would I want that for my own dogs, no, but I also wouldn't want my dogs to be kenneled, to never live a particular room in a house for the majority of their lives and to only go for a walk once a month.

My only point about Wallace Haven was that I felt he treated his dogs better than 90% of the dog owners in this country and he was a dirty, filthy breeding mil that needed to be closed down. I think he treats his dogs better than most kennels do from what I am learning.

[minniemn]

I have just skimmed this post and wanted to answer a question in case it gets locked.

first I want to say my posts came across the way I didn't mean it to... I don't agree with getting rid of females once they have done their job for you, but I know that point was gotten, just my way of delivery wasn't the best... mostly because I just got back from a kennel, and was comming to post about what I saw.... read this first, and flew off the handle.

then a couple of personal things happened, and instead of thinking I typed and sent.

But the question I wanted to answer quick was yes my mentor welped many, many litters.... she has been breeding for 30 years... but she also has mentored many people... more than she has welped herself.

She has a litter a year right now, and in the past had 2 to 3 a year. She has all her females until the end of their life.

I have never bought a dog from her, she breed yorkies in the past (before I met her) and now breeds dobies and standard poodles- after they get their champion... she breeds with other champions.

wanted to clear that up, I will be back to read the rest of the posts later... my son was in a rollover accident today (he is fine) but we have some things to deal with right now, and eat supper.

[YorkieRini]

I was giving you the benefit of the doubt because typed words are hard to interpret sometimes. I'm glad I did.

I personally appreciate you clearing that up. And totally understand how passions can sometimes get the best of us! I'm also guilty of it.

Hugs,
Irene

PS. Sorry about your son's accident. Glad he's OK

Originally Posted by minniemn

I have just skimmed this post and wanted to answer a question in case it gets locked.

first I want to say my posts came across the way I didn't mean it to... I don't agree with getting rid of females once they have done their job for you, but I know that point was gotten, just my way of delivery wasn't the best... mostly because I just got back from a kennel, and was comming to post about what I saw.... read this first, and flew off the handle.

then a couple of personal things happened, and instead of thinking I typed and sent.

But the question I wanted to answer quick was yes my mentor welped many, many litters.... she has been breeding for 30 years... but she also has mentored many people... more than she has welped herself.

She has a litter a year right now, and in the past had 2 to 3 a year. She has all her females until the end of their life.

I have never bought a dog from her, she breed yorkies in the past (before I met her) and now breeds dobies and standard poodles- after they get their champion... she breeds with other champions.

wanted to clear that up, I will be back to read the rest of the posts later... my son was in a rollover accident today (he is fine) but we have some things to deal with right now, and eat supper.

[JHurtt]

I know that this thread is over a month old, but I just came across it. I thought long and hard about becoming a breeder and decided that I would love to. Since then I have been researching, talking to other breeders, and have found a mentor. When I thought about whether or not I would keep my retired dogs, I immediately thought yes and didn't put any more thought into it. This has completely opened my eyes and I see that the decision I made wasn't as open and shut as I believed it would be. I have two dogs now, one is a neutered poodle mix, who obviously is a beloved pet, the other is a Biewer pup. I bought her because I not only wanted her, but with the hopes that she will be my first of many breeding Yorkies to come. I have only had her for a few months but could never imagine parting with her. That being said, I also now see that my dream of breeding Yorkies right into my senior years will not be possible if I maintain the mindframe that I currently have in that I will keep all of my dogs. It's funny, one of my main concerns when trying to decide whether I would be able to tough it out as a breeder was, and still is, if I will be able to part with the puppies. Now I see that I have a lot more to face as far as parting with these beautiful animals. For that I thank each of you who posted your opinions, regardless of your standpoint.

[sylvan]

Originally Posted by JHurtt

I know that this thread is over a month old, but I just came across it. I thought long and hard about becoming a breeder and decided that I would love to. Since then I have been researching, talking to other breeders, and have found a mentor. When I thought about whether or not I would keep my retired dogs, I immediately thought yes and didn't put any more thought into it. This has completely opened my eyes and I see that the decision I made wasn't as open and shut as I believed it would be. I have two dogs now, one is a neutered poodle mix, who obviously is a beloved pet, the other is a Biewer pup. I bought her because I not only wanted her, but with the hopes that she will be my first of many breeding Yorkies to come. I have only had her for a few months but could never imagine parting with her. That being said, I also now see that my dream of breeding Yorkies right into my senior years will not be possible if I maintain the mindframe that I currently have in that I will keep all of my dogs. It's funny, one of my main concerns when trying to decide whether I would be able to tough it out as a breeder was, and still is, if I will be able to part with the puppies. Now I see that I have a lot more to face as far as parting with these beautiful animals. For that I thank each of you who posted your opinions, regardless of your standpoint.

Jen, I just have to say that your post here was one of the most thoughtful I have read in awhile. There are so many facets to this hobby that really need a well developed personal philosophy and it is refreshing to see your dedication to making good choices for yourself after weighing all possible consequences. I wish you all the best in your endeavors. Stacy

[JHurtt]

Thank you so much Stacy! Best wishes to you and yours as well!

[YorkieShadow]

We use to breed Boxers and we stopped breeding the mom at age 6. She has gave us Lots of pretty healthy babies. I will always keep her.I could not even think about giving her to some one after she has been with us so long.

[bigdog]

I only have one breeding girl, Sugar and she is getting spayed after this litter. I will keep her females only if they are going to be big enough to breed. The owner of the dad gets the pic of pups, so who knows what i'll end up with. I do love little puppies and it is a lot of work. I have three adult yorkies in the house and a brittainy who comes in at night. I don't see how anyone can care properly for ten or more dogs unless they are wealthy. I spoil my dogs worse than the grand kids. Thats pretty bad. I agree with you Pat. Sugar is only 3 years old, but she is my first baby and i couldn't deal with it if something bad happenned to her, thats why i'm retiring her. She has had two litters and done well, but i still fear something could go wrong.She is due December 16 and this will be her last. I think placing your retired babies in a home where they can be spoiled is terrific. A lot better than having to share with who knows how many other dogs for affection.

[YorkieRini]

Originally Posted by bigdog

I only have one breeding girl, Sugar and she is getting spayed after this litter. I will keep her females only if they are going to be big enough to breed. The owner of the dad gets the pic of pups, so who knows what i'll end up with. I do love little puppies and it is a lot of work. I have three adult yorkies in the house and a brittainy who comes in at night. I don't see how anyone can care properly for ten or more dogs unless they are wealthy. I spoil my dogs worse than the grand kids. Thats pretty bad. I agree with you Pat. Sugar is only 3 years old, but she is my first baby and i couldn't deal with it if something bad happenned to her, thats why i'm retiring her. She has had two litters and done well, but i still fear something could go wrong.She is due December 16 and this will be her last. I think placing your retired babies in a home where they can be spoiled is terrific. A lot better than having to share with who knows how many other dogs for affection.

Anythings possible. Here's how some of use with 12 care for our Yorkies..hahahaha..YES I AM CRAZY!!

Hugs,
Irene

[yorkiemom1970]

Originally Posted by YorkieRini

Anythings possible. Here's how some of use with 12 care for our Yorkies..hahahaha..YES I AM CRAZY!!

Hugs,
Irene

ha ha ha ha ha ha,
looks alot like my house take comfort in knowing you're not the only crazy one...

[crystalsmom]

Originally Posted by YorkieRose

Whispersmom and I have a friend with 14 Yorkies..all are retired except 2. Right now she has a houseful of old Yorkies she can not afford good vet care for..Keeping them works when you are a very small breeder in numbers..I have tried to maintain the teeth of 25 adult Yorkies and it cost me $125/150 per dog, per year for cleaning. I can only handle about 6 now and give them everything they need, plus weekly baths, attention and love.

I would not have the healthy 11 yr old yorkie if someone wasn't willing to let me have
her at 3 yrs old because she knew I would give her a good home. If I were a breeder
I'm not sure I could give them up but like YorkieRose said if you do serious breeding
you just cannot keep them all and take care of them they way they deserve. It has
to be a hard decision.

[crystalsmom]

I read one post before I was going on to another thread and it was Sylvan's , post.
Yes, I like Sylvan but this is one of the main reason I do. I never met her in real
life it's what she stands for in protecting this breed, I so dearly love. I understand
that you want your dogs cared for.......of course but if you really believe someone
breeding in small numbers with absolutely no respect to the standard is doing these
little ones a service IMO I don't. I don't want my grandchildren buying a yorkie
someday that looks like a "pug" or whatever with no personality. There is alot to
animal husbandry and reading a book or two, does not make you and expert. Thats
why my dream of breeding vanished when I was quite young and knew I just could
not afford to do it right.

[txshopper73]

Originally Posted by YorkieRose

What changed my mind was, when I let a few friends care for a couple of my older girls when I was traveling. I wanted to think these girls loved only me...the truth is this...Yorkies adore people, any person who is loving to them. It was an ego buster for me. I saw an older girl so happy to be an "only"..she would visit me and be happy to see me, but she perferred her
"special" life and I could see it.

You could give me a bank account with a million dollars in it for vet care...that is the least of it...how can I sleep with 20 dogs? How can I walk them, take them to the park, take them on trips, how can have each one in my lap, brush their hair each evening, ..I can not do it and neither can any other breeder.

Love means doing what is best for the one you love, not yourself. I see no love in collecting dogs and denying them the best life I can provide..but I do not judge anyone who does not see it my way.

Bottom line, most of us breeders are cut from a different clothe and to the pet owner we are heartless in some areas of thinking. It is true in a sense, my heart can not do my thinking when it comes to doing what is best for my dogs.

Awesomely said, Pat. I have not had to cross that road yet but I know one day I will. People don't understand people that place their retired dogs...I, for one, don't expect them to.

[crystalsmom]

Originally Posted by JHurtt

I know that this thread is over a month old, but I just came across it. I thought long and hard about becoming a breeder and decided that I would love to. Since then I have been researching, talking to other breeders, and have found a mentor. When I thought about whether or not I would keep my retired dogs, I immediately thought yes and didn't put any more thought into it. This has completely opened my eyes and I see that the decision I made wasn't as open and shut as I believed it would be. I have two dogs now, one is a neutered poodle mix, who obviously is a beloved pet, the other is a Biewer pup. I bought her because I not only wanted her, but with the hopes that she will be my first of many breeding Yorkies to come. I have only had her for a few months but could never imagine parting with her. That being said, I also now see that my dream of breeding Yorkies right into my senior years will not be possible if I maintain the mindframe that I currently have in that I will keep all of my dogs. It's funny, one of my main concerns when trying to decide whether I would be able to tough it out as a breeder was, and still is, if I will be able to part with the puppies. Now I see that I have a lot more to face as far as parting with these beautiful animals. For that I thank each of you who posted your opinions, regardless of your standpoint.

Good Luck to you in all you do. I just know you are going to be a fine breeder and
it's always better to go into something with the best information why you should or
should not do something. We certainly get alot to think about here on YT but it
helps us to be better owners and breeders.