Retiring Females

[YorkieRose]

KIM...I thought this way for years...I kept ALL my Yorkies the first 10 yrs..I had started with some who were already 3 and 4 yrs, so I had several retirees. The thought of letting my "family" go made me cry and lose sleep.

What changed my mind was, when I let a few friends care for a couple of my older girls when I was traveling. I wanted to think these girls loved only me...the truth is this...Yorkies adore people, any person who is loving to them. It was an ego buster for me. I saw an older girl so happy to be an "only"..she would visit me and be happy to see me, but she perferred her
"special" life and I could see it.

You could give me a bank account with a million dollars in it for vet care...that is the least of it...how can I sleep with 20 dogs? How can I walk them, take them to the park, take them on trips, how can have each one in my lap, brush their hair each evening, ..I can not do it and neither can any other breeder.

Love means doing what is best for the one you love, not yourself. I see no love in collecting dogs and denying them the best life I can provide..but I do not judge anyone who does not see it my way. I started by letting my mother-in-law have my first retired girl..what a wonderful solution to my overloaded house of dogs. Pammie lived to be 17 yrs old, my oldest Yorkie.

The next one went to a younger woman who was bed ridden. Her husband worked for my vet...this was the placement that conveniced me to continue to let the retired ones go...I would visit my Molly and take her home to groom. When I returned her to her mother, she would run in the house and jump on the bed and shower her mother with kisses. Was my home so awful that my Yorkies perferred anyone to me? No, it was nothing more the constant attention I could not provide. Yorkies are "diva's" and demand diva treatment..for the moment I only have two girls..they are loving life. I think they know 2 more are coming in a few months and they know mom's lap is just right for two, but not four! LOL

Bottom line, most of us breeders are cut from a different clothe and to the pet owner we are heartless in some areas of thinking. It is true in a sense, my heart can not do my thinking when it comes to doing what is best for my dogs.

[Tauni]

I am in the very beginning stages of the possibility of becoming a breeder. Pat you brought up some very good points. Going into this I thought I would keep all of my dogs forever, but that is not realistic. I think it would be great to provide an older person or sick child with a lovely yorkie. I'm glad I read this thread it has really changed my thinking.

Tauni

[SoCalyorkiLvr]

I appreciate your point of view Pat, but one reason people condemn puppymills, even clean ones where the dog's are well cared for physically, is because the dogs cannot possibly be raised with the kind of care and attention that this breed deserves so what happens to the twenty yorkies while they are with you for the five years. Do they get daily walks, lap sitting, and the individual love and attention they crave? It does sound like your dogs prefer their retired homes because they are given the kind of attention they have craved their entire lives. It makes sense that they would prefer that.

I will reiterate my position that a breeder should only have as many yorkies as they can care for in this manner. It is not doing right by the dog otherwise imo. If you cannot give them the individual attention and the daily walks and all then you should hire people to do that for you as that would be part of your "business" and should be included in the cost of doing business. To not do so is cruel in my opinion.

I have five dogs and mine all have a particular person in the house who is respnsible for this type of attention and they get one on one time with me training and playing every day. I take turns letting them sit on my lap even. They all sleep with someone at night.

I think there are more breeders who keep their dogs in kennel-like environments than we realize out there. I am just starting to understand this and I think it is sad. Males are kept outside in a lot of cases and they have their "house dogs" but the rest are kept in cages for the majority of the time I think. Is this correct?

[Olivier]

Due to illness in the family , I have had to let 3 of my Yorkie girls go , 2 went to a Yorkietalk member and one returned with her breeder . I cried a lot when the peoples were here . I really love these girls and never wanted them out of my home but sometimes life have project that we didn't planned for . My Great Dane returned to her breeder too . Peoples should always care for their dogs , no matter the breeds . They need to be loved and have the best of cares .

I really hope that I'll be allowed to see them again soon .

[YorkieRose]

What was my Yorkies life's like when I had 15/20...which I might add is a very typical number for a serious breeder..well, I had three rooms for them. One was like a family room and two were for sleeping/grooming/pens for pups etc.

I spent at least 10 to 12 hours each day in this area..also my friends and visitors were always asked to come into the dog room for visits. I spent most of my day, cleaning dogs, cleaning pens, cleaning the play yards, feeding, and caring for pups. I have been told I am too finicky about grooming, teeth, cleanilness of the kennel..if I let some of this stuff go I would not feel mine did not get enough of ME time. But when a breeder slacks up on the dirt jobs, it can all go to pot so fast.
That was the best I could give them..I tried to take turns walking them and going for a ride in the car, but that was only about once a month. I had a couch in their room and TV..when I sat down, about 10 got on my lap at a time..I did the best I could to make them happy.

The truth...my kennel situation was paradise compared to the average breeder I knew and know now. I have now returned to my roots..a small hobby breeder who shows. My number will stay at no more then 6..that is about all I can keep happy. I have pets I enjoy owning.

I do not think we have many big numbers breeders on YT..breeders that keep the numbers to 6 or 8 do well in the house....but in 5 or 6 yrs years that breeder will probably have mostly all retirees and no Yorkies to breed. They either place the retirees or stop breeding until the all die..and that can be 10 yrs. When you love breeding and having pups..stopping is not a solution...that is why some breeders build more kennel rooms and add cages to "store away" old dogs until they die..that was not for me.

There is a world of difference between the pet owner and the serious breeder..I am a breeder who loves her Yorkies very much and am doing what I feel is best. When I stop breeding I will see no need to place the ones I have at that time.
I just got off the phone with a breeder friend in Canada who just placed 6 retirees this week. All her Yorks are free in the house and yard, they get lots of attention,but it never the same as being an only..She is back to a good number for her..tough stuff to do..

[sylvan]

We have a 11 yorkies and two pups in the house right now. One lives with my mom full time and only is back here to whelp/raise the litter. They all get lots of attention and each have one on one time during the day. I do plan to place some of my retired dogs to pet homes when the time comes. I think Pat explained this as well as anyone could. Just the way mothers love their children we want what is best for them. Letting them go is not an easy thing to do, but it is the right thing to do if you find them a place to be doted on as they deserve. I will never have dogs living in stacked kennels just clean, dry and well fed. There is so much more to raising a lovely, happy well adjusted dog.

[minniemn]

You can make it sound like you are giving away the "retired" because you "love" them, but look at it in the dogs eyes.

They get loved on when they are puppies by you, they then spend 5-7yrs having puppies for you, and when their body is tired, and it is time for them to rest, off they go to a new home.... dogs are loyal.

I think it is sad, and if it is true you are not out to make money off your dogs, then why do they have to leave.

I don't know how many times I have read on this forum, how when a person tries to sell a two year old pup, many people come on and say how hard that is on a dog, can't you work something out so they can stay with you? they are already attached.... well I wonder how easy it is for a 5-7yr old to be rehomed then?

If you can't take care of your dogs their entire life, then why have them? If breeding is so important to you, why not have 1 to 2 breeding females so when they are done having puppies for YOU, then can then retire in the only home they have known?

It is selfish really to rehome them- and really sad to use dogs this way(yes use, use them for puppy producers, then get rid of them when they are done) (I also have read several times by "breeders" on here that dogs don't need to be breed, they don't "want" to have puppies ect) ... I wonder how many shelters would not be needed if breeders only breed one to two females every other heat cycle- instead of several litters a year? You can always "give" a puppy to someone who would benefit from it, like the very ill ect.

I know this sound angry, and I am upset about how disposable dogs are to "breeders" I guess visiting a shelter with "retired" females in it, and "marking retired studs" makes a person view things differently.

Dogs have feelings, you can see it in their eyes, and don't fool yourself into thinking "ya but the retired bitches I gave away won't end up in a shelter"... tell that to the dogs that are there.... someone once loved them also, enough to let them produce puppies for them, just so when they are done.. they can be sent off to a new home, possibly shelter when the retired male doesn't stop marking.... or the new owner passes and no one to take their dog....

[YorkieRose]

Sometimes the pet owner tends to forget where that beloved pet comes from..us selfish breeders. If the reputable, caring breeder does not "rehome", in a few short years they must stop breeding due to numbers...then the only place to get a pet will be from the high volume commerical breeders...and we know where those retired dogs wind up.

[minniemn]

There was a study done, I will have to look it up... but most people buy their puppies from people who have 1-2 females in their home... and sell them in the newspaper.

To me that is more reputable than "using" dogs for your own benefit. What make a person reputable? you admit you can't care for all the dogs you have, they don't get daily walks brushing ect- then why have so many dogs?

There isn't a need for all these puppies to be born a year- have you seen the shelters? most of them are older, many "retired" and few puppies- because those are cute and cuddly.

I didn't and never in my life got a puppie from anyone who didn't have the "moms" in the house as their own pet.... all the calls I got for my pups is, is the mom kenneled? how many litters a year? ect... which all came down to, they wanted a puppy from a person who had their "mom" as their indoor, family pet.... not one person asked me if I was a show breeder, or wanted a pup from a kennel breeder.

I can't have any more dogs for two reasons- 1- I would not be able to give another dog enough attention, walks, brushing ect... and 2- the city only allows so many animals per home... (they dont check though)

Anyways, my point is- If you can not properly care for your dogs, and just have them to produce puppies and ship them off when they are "retired" then I have to wonder why? it has to be for the money, because if it was for "love of the breed" or "love of the dog" you would make sure you were able to take care of all needs until the day they die... and not ship them off to someone else who has to then fork over the money for their vet bills as they get older... (I saw that comment made that it would be too expensive to pay for all the vet bills as they aged)

Big corp. breeders will always be there, because people won't stop buying from pet stores... but I think we also have an issues with other breeders to who have to many to care for (as what I have read in this thread)

It is so sad for the dogs, really- how loyal they are to their "owners" and loving... they produce the pups for you... and then BAM out the door you go... "next"

I will have to find the poem about "g@d, please help me be the person my dog thinks I am"... and the shelter poem about retired breeding dogs... it will break your heart to read them, and maybe just maybe people will rethink having too many dogs to care for until they pass... and just shipping off the ones who are not able to breed anymore for a newer model who can then make puppies.

[Tauni]

Originally Posted by YorkieRose

Sometimes the pet owner tends to forget where that beloved pet comes from..us selfish breeders. If the reputable, caring breeder does not "rehome", in a few short years they must stop breeding due to numbers...then the only place to get a pet will be from the high volume commerical breeders...and we know where those retired dogs wind up.

I totally agree!!!!

Tauni

[minniemn]

Originally Posted by YorkieRose

Sometimes the pet owner tends to forget where that beloved pet comes from..us selfish breeders. If the reputable, caring breeder does not "rehome", in a few short years they must stop breeding due to numbers...then the only place to get a pet will be from the high volume commerical breeders...and we know where those retired dogs wind up.

I am sorry but I disagree, there are many people out there who have one litter a year and keep their dogs until they pass.... they don't breed for an income...

I have a hard time swallowing "caring" and "rehoming" in the same sentance... if you rehome a retired dog- and replace it with a dog able to have puppies, how is that caring? so the dog to you is an asset, once it is done making you puppies- off it goes?

[YorkieRose]

I think I am one to keep my cool on this forum..I do not recall every losing my temper and getting angry...but there is one area I would not go if I were you..and that is saying I could NOT care for my dogs because I had too many.

What we have here is a BIG misunderstanding...never in 33 yrs of owning Yorkies has there never been a time when I have been unable to care for my Yorkies..doing all they needed..each was groomed weekly, each NEED was met ASAP. None were ever neglected in any way, shape or form...what I said was, I felt like I could not spend enough quality time with them as pets because I was 24/7 meeting their needs. I will readily admit I neglected my home, family and friends to care for my animals. I had little life outside the kennel and decided to downsize and return to my roots.."a small hobby breeder who shows"...

I will let the rest of this post go...most pet owners can never understand the mind and heart of a reputable, dedicated hobby breeder. We understand one another and that is why many avoid Pet forums..I happen to love pet forums and the wonderful people on them.

[minniemn]

Pat, you mentioned someone couldn't pay for their dogs upkeep, someone that you know, that is what I was referring to.

Just wanted to clarify that- I have already stated the rest, and it does make a person angry when they visit a shelter.

[sylvan]

Wow. I am trying not to be insulted by the turn of this thread, but I am a bit irritated. First, I would like to point out that I have made provision as do many caring breeders that my dogs will not end up in rescue/shelters. I have been to a few of them and try to steer people in that direction when looking for a pup. I also donate a portion of each pup's sale price to my local one.
Secondly, so far this has not been a money making venture for me. Any income from the sale of pups has gone directly into their care and acquiring a few really excellent examples of the breed.
Third, my dogs all recieve the best of care and attention and are very happy, well adjusted animals. We do bond with them all, adults and pups alike. Does that mean I should not place pups in other homes either since they have bonded with us and will have to adjust? My dogs are all well socialized and adjust easily to a variety of situations. I cannot imagine that they would be heartsick to be able to spend a long retirement in a new home where they will be the center of attention for many happy years. Imagine raising a family of 12 children and then telling them they cannot leave the home since they would have to adjust to a new surrounding....where they would have their own room...
If we were to all take the advice given, it would be impossible to improve any qualities in a given breeding, since the bitch (or two) you begin with is the one you had better stick with, whether she is producing the quality you expected or not. Heaven forbid you send her off to live in selfish, pampered luxury, she might be upset...for about 5 whole minutes.
minniemn, you posted that your mentor has whelped many, many, litters on another thread. How would it be possible for her to have done that if she is only breeding the one or two family pets in her home? or is that not the case? People who are just breeding the one or two pets that live in their home and then selling the pups in the newspaper are more often than not unfamiliar with the genetic background of the pedigrees, interpreting the breed standard to suit themselves and not bothering to compare the quality of what they are producing in the show ring. This is a disservice to the breed and leads to dissolution of the standard. It is not necessary to produce more pet quality dogs of any breed. These same people are generally unwilling to take back pups that don't work out and find them new homes since they lack the resources and don't want the expense of advertising the same dog again.
Are they prepared to guarantee against genetic defects? not usually.
Kim, you seem to have flip flopped yet again, since you were touting the benefits of raising dogs in a large pack environment before and now you are questioning the ability of Pat to properly care for her dogs. How many does Wallace Haven have sitting on his lap each night?

[YorkieRini]

I just wanted to jump in and say I understand your feelings on the subject. But I do not agree. That doesnt mean you are wrong. However, you are wronging Pat and myself because we don't follow your protocol. Maybe you didn't mean it that way, that's just how it comes across.
We all have different view or opinions on a lot of things. As long as someone is not harming the Yorkies or abusing them or putting them in appropriate homes why does that make their feelings or ways of doing things wrong? I am not saying you have to agree just allow others to have a different view and a way of viewing things.

I breed on a small scale. I do alot of things many other breeders do not do. Does that make me better? NO! That's just what I feel comfortable doing. I have 12 of my own. I am going to be placing one of my retired females with a family that has bought 3 puppies from me and is local. This family is dedicated and begging me for this female. They have lots of love to give. I dont' see why someone would feel this is wrong.As for walks. I do not take my Yorkies for walks (most breeders don't) because of what they can pick up on the way and bring home and other dogs can come out of no where and attack my baby. Even if I had only one Yorkie I still wouldn't take if for a walk. I take them for car rides and take turns carrying them around in my front back and other types of carriers I have. I also have a Basket on my bike that take turns putting them in.

I'm sorry but saying only have 2 Yorkies is the only way to breed is inaccurate and ridiculous!

I take breeding very serious and the money I get for my puppies goes rigth back into my breeding program. The reason I breed is not to pay my bills I have a full time job. Other breeder may, I don't agree with breeding as a supplemental income but I understand why people do it adn I would not bad mouth someone that did unless they were a puppymill or someone that did not care for their babies.I breed to produce a perfect example of a Yorkie and to me that is beauty and healthy (sound knees, heart, etc). Not saying that all Yorkies are not beautiful, but the combo to find these days.

I am just reacting to how your post came across. It sounds as though you feel your way is the ONLY way to do things. That's how I interpreted your post. To the contrary, I feel we need to try to understand one anothers way of doing things doesn't mean we have to agree.

Think of it this way, what if breeders were just as criticle to pet lovers. You have those that feed the raw food diet or the supermarket brand, some even feed only table scraps and that's it. What about pet lovers that want to go on vacation and board their Yorkies (some do)? Would it be right for breeders to say well a true pet lover should only feed top of the line food, never go on vacation or anywhere unless they can take their yorkie, and do what we tell them to inorder for them ot prove themselves as good hearted pet lovers? Of course not.

I am not trying to argue or criticizie you because we don't agree. Just sharing another's view in hopes that you understand that; not agree, just understand others views too.

Politely bowing off my soapbox.
Irene

Originally Posted by YorkieRini

I just wanted to jump in and say I understand your point of view. But I do not agree. That doesnt mean you are wrong. However, you are wronging Pat and myself because we don't follow your protocol. Maybe you didn't mean it that way..
We all have different view or opinions on a lot of things. As long as someone is not harming the Yorkies or abusing them or putting them in appropriate homes why does that make their view wrong? Do you understand my point? I am not say ing you have to agree just allow others to have a different view and a way of viewing things.

I breed on a small scale. I do alot of things many other breeders do not do. Does that make me better? NO! That's just what I feel comfortable doing. I have 12 of my own. I am going to be placing one of my retired females with a family that has bought 3 puppies from me and is local. I do not take my Yorkies for walks (most breeders don't) because of what they can pick up on the way and bring home. Even if I had only one Yorkie I still wouldn't take if for a walk. I take them for car rides and take turns carrying them around in my front back and other types of carriers I have. I also have a Basket on my bike that take turns putting them in.

I'm sorry but saying only have 2 Yorkies is the only way to breed is inaccurate and ridiculous!

I take breeding very serious and the money I get for my puppies goes rigth back into my breeding program. The reason I breed is not to pay my bills I have a full time job. I breed to produce a perfect example of a Yorkie and to me that is beauty and healthy. TNot saying that all Yorkies are not beautiful, but the combo to find these days.

I am just reacting to how your post came across. It sounds as though you feel only your way is to do things. That's how I interpreted your post. To the contrary, I feel we need to try to understand one anothers way of doing things.

think of it this way, what if breeders were just as criticle to pet lovers. You have those that feed the raw food diet or the supermarket brand, some even feed only table scraps and that's it. What about pet lovers that want to go on vacation and board their Yorkies (some do)? Would it be right for breeders to say well a true pet lover should only feed top of the line food, never go on vacation or anywhere unless they can take their yorkie, and do what we tell them to inorder for them ot prove themselves as good hearted pet lovers? Of course not.

I am not trying to argue or criticizing you because we don't agree. Just sharing another's view in hopes that you understand that; not agree, just understand others views too.

Politely bowing off my soapbox.
Irene