Parti confussion?????

[Obie]

Originally Posted by EnchantedToi

The Standard that you have linked to and posted, is a standard followed by the BTCA or BTCA members. They are the only people that follow that standard which includes a two colored head.

Other clubs have continued to follow the three colored head and have no interest in breeding for a two colored head.http://www.raritiesinc.ca/breeds/bre...rds/Biewer.pdf

What will you do if your breeding program produces two colors in the head instead of three? How will you approach this? Will the puppies be culled or sold as non-desirable? Just wondering as you must speak from a 4 to 5 generation breeding program to support such a standard.

[EnchantedToi]

Thank you, but perhaps you are confused by my post?
I was posting a responce to the previous poster who was listing the BTCA standard.It may not be clear to many researching the breed that there is more than the BTCA standard.
How you see that as criticizing is beyond me.
In my opinion you should look a little closer at your own posts.

If you are trying to make an observation regarding myself and my breeding program.............. you are commenting on something you know nothing of.


There are some lovely three colored Biewers who are producing some beautiful offspring.And many including the group of Biewer Enthusiast I have come to know both BBCA, BBCC ,and the BYTNCA have chosen to be very selective while working towards producing progeny with a tri colored head.
I really don't understand your banter regarding one club or another, you have chosen your's and I have chosen another.
Here are some examples of some Beautifully Tri colored Biewers
Photo_Gallery
Hopefully those who are interested in the Biewer breed are continuing to research . Research all Biewer Clubs,visit some up comming shows and or Specialties.
Regardless of club affiliations it is very important to see the Biewers in the Ring, feel the coats.... talk with many Show Exhibitors.Research the dogs behind the offspring.
Everyone I have had the pleasure of meeting in person at any shows I have attended ,have been very helpful as well as friendly,and always excited and eager to talk about the Breed.
Select a mentor who's ideals best mirror your own and your breeding programs goals and ideals.
I have personally shown in Ontario Rare Breed, IABCA as well as NAKC.
Choosing not to show in ARBA ( due to the 2 colored head) in the Standard)
This is my personal choice.


Jan

Originally Posted by Delightyorkies

That is correct the BTCA is the only Club following a standard that includes a 2 colored head.The revised standard by Mrs.Biewer.The co founder of this breed,the one that is highly disgusted with people that post on their web site ,that they are following Mr.Biewers dream ,a man they have never known or even have the faintest idea what his plan for this breed was.I am just wondering why you take every opportunity to criticize the BTCA.You and your club BBCI/BBCA are using a standard that was written by some Mi-Ki breeders.
Why would they and their standard be a better choice than Mrs Biewer.?

I find it so interesting that a few of the people that are constantly telling the Biewer world,how it should be done ,have not even had a litter of Biewer puppies yet.It seems to me like the virgin giving the rules on child rearing.People that are breeders and not just forum posters know, that the addition to the standard is no thread to the Biewer,since almost all of the Biewer puppies born, have a 3 colored head.The challenge seems to be how do we breed ,that the dogs will keep the vibrant colors through adulthood.

[sierrapups]

Originally Posted by EnchantedToi

Thank you, but perhaps you are confused by my post?
I was posting a responce to the previous poster who was listing the BTCA standard.It may not be clear to many researching the breed that there is more than the BTCA standard.
How you see that as criticizing is beyond me.
In my opinion you should look a little closer at your own posts.

If you are trying to make an observation regarding myself and my breeding program.............. you are commenting on something you know nothing of.


There are some lovely three colored Biewers who are producing some beautiful offspring.And many including the group of Biewer Enthusiast I have come to know both BBCA, BBCC ,and the BYTNCA have chosen to be very selective while working towards producing progeny with a tri colored head.
I really don't understand your banter regarding one club or another, you have chosen your's and I have chosen another.
Here are some examples of some Beautifully Tri colored Biewers
Photo_Gallery
Hopefully those who are interested in the Biewer breed are continuing to research . Research all Biewer Clubs,visit some up comming shows and or Specialties.
Regardless of club affiliations it is very important to see the Biewers in the Ring, feel the coats.... talk with many Show Exhibitors.Research the dogs behind the offspring.
Everyone I have had the pleasure of meeting in person at any shows I have attended ,have been very helpful as well as friendly,and always excited and eager to talk about the Breed.
Select a mentor who's ideals best mirror your own and your breeding programs goals and ideals.
I have personally shown in Ontario Rare Breed, IABCA as well as NAKC.
Choosing not to show in ARBA ( due to the 2 colored head) in the Standard)
This is my personal choice.


Jan

Unfortunately you always chose whatever forum that is discussing the Biewer to push your club affiliations and to "bash" the BTCA and research. You however have not posted how many litters you have produced and how they are turning out. Would it not be better to inform us as to how your breeding program is going rather than to discount any scientific reasearch that is being done?
Delight has the wonderful privilage to be a friend of Mrs. Biewer and converses with her at least once a week. Through these conversation she has been able to learn what the Biewer's goals were with this breed and how she feels about the work we are doing now.
Why is it so difficult for some to see that a breed evolves and that the Biewer has actually become its own breed?
By chosing not to show with ARBA you are only denying yourselves the opportunity to show with an accepted show venue that is well respected by the larger dog community.
Furthermore I don't think your little thumbs down etc. icons serve well in an informed discussion.

[Obie]

I can't understand why my posts keep coming up that the moderator needs to review them? I am not bashing anyone. However, hopefully this one will go through. Will the BBCI help me to understand why Donna Hall no longer shows Biewer's. I knew her history when she first started a Biewer club and was really horrified as to what happened to her first Biewer. However, why has she moved away from this beautiful breed? Why is she now showing the Mi Ki? I would like to speak with her direct but possibly someone will help me understand her reasoning for moving away from this breed?

[Obie]

This question is for Enchanted Toi. What will you do if your 3rd or 4th generation of Biewers come out with two colors in the head? Which I'm sure they will do because I know your pedigrees and have seen litters produced from these pedigrees who are not club affiliates and have two colors in the head.

[Pruett]

Originally Posted by EnchantedToi

Thank you, but perhaps you are confused by my post?
I was posting a responce to the previous poster who was listing the BTCA standard.It may not be clear to many researching the breed that there is more than the BTCA standard.
How you see that as criticizing is beyond me.
In my opinion you should look a little closer at your own posts.

If you are trying to make an observation regarding myself and my breeding program.............. you are commenting on something you know nothing of.


There are some lovely three colored Biewers who are producing some beautiful offspring.And many including the group of Biewer Enthusiast I have come to know both BBCA, BBCC ,and the BYTNCA have chosen to be very selective while working towards producing progeny with a tri colored head.
I really don't understand your banter regarding one club or another, you have chosen your's and I have chosen another.
Here are some examples of some Beautifully Tri colored Biewers
Photo_Gallery
Hopefully those who are interested in the Biewer breed are continuing to research . Research all Biewer Clubs,visit some up comming shows and or Specialties.
Regardless of club affiliations it is very important to see the Biewers in the Ring, feel the coats.... talk with many Show Exhibitors.Research the dogs behind the offspring.
Everyone I have had the pleasure of meeting in person at any shows I have attended ,have been very helpful as well as friendly,and always excited and eager to talk about the Breed.
Select a mentor who's ideals best mirror your own and your breeding programs goals and ideals.
I have personally shown in Ontario Rare Breed, IABCA as well as NAKC.
Choosing not to show in ARBA ( due to the 2 colored head) in the Standard)
This is my personal choice.


Jan

I'm as curious as Delightful is Jan, as to the outcome of your 1st and 2nd generations in your breeding program. As for you not wanting to show with ARBA because of the allowing of 2 colors in the head is your purgative. I myself am more worried about health and structure problems. I've seen many dogs in the NACK and IABCA ring with 2 colors in the head, roach backs, colors (black and brown) coming down the leg (sometimes 2 or 3 legs), and longer bodies, none of which are in the standard your club uses that Donna and Christine wrote, not Mr. Biewer.

You say "BBCA, BBCC ,and the BYTNCA have chosen to be very selective while working towards producing progeny with a tri colored head". The BYTNC breeds Yorkies and Biewers together and now you're saying this is OK to get the 3 colors in the head?

I'm curious why the importance of head coloring has superseded the importance of breeding healthy dogs? You yourself contacted a breeder that was selling the same lines that your girl with L.S. came from and explained your heartbreak and how could she put others through this. You then had a few choice words for her and her breeding program. A few other members of the BBCI have expressed their opinions about anyone that would knowingly breed these lines and how they were just in it for the money, etc.........Why has this opinion all the sudden changed? Is it because of the money? How many cases of L.S. have we seen in the last couple of years?

Diane Klimb wrote a very interesting article last year in the ShowSight magazine called Liver and Onions which I have been given permission to post. We have been very busy getting health testing line up for our dogs when the DNA profiling is done and organizing another genetic study on coat color and sizing, that we just haven't had time to post it. Hopefully we will have it posted on the BTCA, Inc. sight by tonight, so check Biewer Terrier Club of America, Inc. periodically to see if it's up.

[Obie]

Originally Posted by Pruett

I'm as curious as Delightful is Jan, as to the outcome of your 1st and 2nd generations in your breeding program. As for you not wanting to show with ARBA because of the allowing of 2 colors in the head is your purgative. I myself am more worried about health and structure problems. I've seen many dogs in the NACK and IABCA ring with 2 colors in the head, roach backs, colors (black and brown) coming down the leg (sometimes 2 or 3 legs), and longer bodies, none of which are in the standard your club uses that Donna and Christine wrote, not Mr. Biewer.

You say "BBCA, BBCC ,and the BYTNCA have chosen to be very selective while working towards producing progeny with a tri colored head". The BYTNC breeds Yorkies and Biewers together and now you're saying this is OK to get the 3 colors in the head?

I'm curious why the importance of head coloring has superseded the importance of breeding healthy dogs? You yourself contacted a breeder that was selling the same lines that your girl with L.S. came from and explained your heartbreak and how could she put others through this. You then had a few choice words for her and her breeding program. A few other members of the BBCI have expressed their opinions about anyone that would knowingly breed these lines and how they were just in it for the money, etc.........Why has this opinion all the sudden changed? Is it because of the money? How many cases of L.S. have we seen in the last couple of years?

Diane Klimb wrote a very interesting article last year in the ShowSight magazine called Liver and Onions which I have been given permission to post. We have been very busy getting health testing line up for our dogs when the DNA profiling is done and organizing another genetic study on coat color and sizing, that we just haven't had time to post it. Hopefully we will have it posted on the BTCA, Inc. sight by tonight, so check Biewer Terrier Club of America, Inc. periodically to see if it's up.

Thank you Moderator! The forum has now become fair and balanced.

[Pruett]

Originally Posted by Obie

Thank you Moderator! The forum has now become fair and balanced.

You are funny Obie.

Per your question about Donna, she never got more than the 2 people that her club started with to join. Also people started checking out her claims of accomplishments, and found out they weren't true. If you want her phone no# PM me and I'll give it to you.

[EnchantedToi]

Originally Posted by Obie

Thank you Moderator! The forum has now become fair and balanced.

Thank you .. but please do not put words in my mouth.
Health has and always been a top priority with me.
No where in my previous post did I say that a tri colored head is more important than health and structure. Pleeeeeeeeease!
And what Cattia has to do with this post regarding Standard is beyond me.
Cattia was imported with a Livershunt at 14 weeks old from Germany, she has been surgically corrected and spayed to the tune of thousands of dollars.. For you to suggest my interest in not in health is totally un called for and untrue.

[Obie]

You are responding to the wrong post, I am not Pruett, I am Obie.

[sierrapups]

Jan,
When you kept asking about what was in the Biewers we sent you the results of one of your fellow members. Now we are asking you about your litters and you refuse to answer. Is it possible that you have never bred Biewers?

[Delightyorkies]

If you are trying to make an observation regarding myself and my breeding program.............. you are commenting on something you know nothing of.

You are right Enchanted, I know nothing about your breeding program.Even so you have been posting for quite some time about your breeding program .We have yet to see a litter you have produced.What is all the secrecy about??

[Obie]

Originally Posted by EnchantedToi

Thank you .. but please do not put words in my mouth.
Health has and always been a top priority with me.
No where in my previous post did I say that a tri colored head is more important than health and structure. Pleeeeeeeeease!
And what Cattia has to do with this post regarding Standard is beyond me.
Cattia was imported with a Livershunt at 14 weeks old from Germany, she has been surgically corrected and spayed to the tune of thousands of dollars.. For you to suggest my interest in not in health is totally un called for and untrue.

Enchanted Toi, we know about Cattia, my heart went out to you regarding this beautiful Biewer. I am so sorry for what has transpired with her. Do you not think we too felt your pain. It does not matter from this point forward what club affiliation you belong too or what your beliefs are. It is for the betterment of the breed! A learning experience no other breeder needs to endure but needs to learn from and move on. This is why the efforts of the Biewer community needs to come together. We know all the history. We know just about everything that needs to be known about the Biewer. We have all the pedigrees and own Biewers from the same pedigrees. That is why it is so important to come together and stop all this denial as to what you have, she has. WE KNOW IT ALL. These records are published and continue to be monitored. You and your members need to let it go and get on board. Is it a matter of concessions? What concessions? Everything you post on your club we have. Been there, done that. What will you and your members do when they produce the same thing we have in our standard for the Biewer Terrier. Again, my question is, what are you going to cull them? I have spoken to members of the BBCI, I have the same thing they have. They are not going to prove anything that we have not already struggled with in our breeding programs. Why are you having such difficulty in letting it go. I know many breeders in Canada who are struggling with the same breeding programs. Why can't you let it go. Why?

[Missiemiss]

I have posted this before and I will post it again....

This thread needs to be closed.

If you want to know about each others breeding programs - PM each other, exchange emails and for heaven's sake - put each other on your Christmas Card list.

This bickering has got to stop - it is not longer a "healthy" debate and I am disappointed that the mods and admin has let it go on this far. Shame Shame.

I bet the newbies are really getting an eyeful on what membership is all about.


Turn and walk away - be proud of your program. Be proud of your furbaby - the baby you have now whether you breed or not. Stop the nonsense!

*stepping down off my virtual soapbox*

[GreenwoodBiewer]

Originally Posted by Obie

You are responding to the wrong post, I am not Pruett, I am Obie.

"Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain"