Parti confussion?????

[JeanieK]

Originally Posted by Nancy1999

Here a quote from the link I gave:

Weoll that pretty much eliminates the parti colored yorkie because we are not trying to produce puppies with white heads, or all white yorkies.

Only time will tell.

[JeanieK]

Originally Posted by yorkiekist

Yes. The continued breeding back to piebald/parti genes over and over may open up more health problems over generations of breeding. Only time will tell.

Thank you ladies for all the great information, it is definitely something we will be watching for.

That is true, only time will tell. The Biewers Yorkies have been around for a long time and I have not heard of any deafness in their dogs. But that does not mean it won't happen in the partis, so now that we are aware of it we can watch for it.

I have spoken to may breeders including my own, that prefer to breed carriers to partis, and this might be why.

Sue I think we need to adjust the standard to discourae the breeding of Dogs with all white heads. I like the color on both ears anyway.

[JeanieK]

Originally Posted by Woogie Man

This seems to be in line with what I've read; that the continued breeding of these dogs (piebalds) increases the risk of deafness. Maybe it won't happen early on, but isn't breeding for this trait like playing Russian Roulette with the pups' health? That's the really sad part of this.

Yes it is so I definitely will not breed for dogs with white heads

[JeanieK]

Originally Posted by bchgirl

LOL....but I'm not laughing cause Tammy isn't making a joke.

Correct, Tammy's dog is very serious about her treats, that is no joking matter.

[GreenwoodBiewer]

Originally Posted by yorkiekist

This may sound dumb, but is that one reason why the Biewer should have a colored face? I thought I read that somewhere about breeding for color on the face lessens the chance of deafness. Or does the Biewer not have the piebald/parti gene?

If you look at the spotting patterns of the Irish Spotting gene, it more closely resembles the patterning of the Biewers. White legs, white tummy, white tip of tail, white going up the neck to the chin, color on the back. The Piebald gene creates a more random patterning, like the Parti where the Irish spotting is basically very uniform.

Diana

[Woogie Man]

I've said before that I think the partis are lovely dogs so I hope you all know I didn't post to bash anyone. It is true that partis with more color don't seem to have the problem with deafness; it's mainly the ones with a lot of white, especially on the head. It may not become a problem with the Biewers as they have more color but with the parti it is more random. I think there lies the real chance for problems. Who's to say how the pattern will evolve over several generations? With the (standard) Yorkie, there is no chance for deafness from this cause as it has no white so, in that sense, a risk is being added that wasn't there before. The piebald effect has been observed in many breeds and the mechanism for deafness is understood so taking what is known from other breeds will possibly help you to avoid the problems with the extreme piebald effect. It does seem like breed clubs disapprove of this type of breeding even with the knowledge of the cause and effect. Maybe because avoiding the problems is easier said than done? Whether parti breeders can avoid the extreme piebalds remains to be seen. While deafness is the most observable result, there are other negative effects (skin problems and shortened lifespans) that may affect the lives of extreme piebald pups. There is good info available so maybe you can use it to your benefit. From what I've read, those that do breed piebalds frequently have CERF and BAER testing done. These tests may be good tools to use in your breeding program. While it isn't a certainty that any of you will produce deaf puppies, it definitely is a possibility that should be cause for concern.

[phfgkl]

Originally Posted by bchgirl

You almost sound happy at the prospect.

That's what I thought too. But, from everything I've seen, it's mostly been with all white animals. My sister has a maltese that is deaf also, and as I said too, we knew of a white cat that was also deaf, plus my sister had an all white kitten that was also deaf. At least with our biewers, they're not all white

[phfgkl]

Originally Posted by TammyJM

Since you quoted what I wrote, it's pretty safe to assume that you are talking about me...you don't have to write, "some of you"....I don't mind if you say that you are referring to my post.

As for making this into a joke...obviously, I do not think of it as being funny (since I am a parti owner), but yes, I do think some of it gets far too carried away and broad statements are being made.

Tammy (proudly owns a parti colored Yorkie that can hear the treat package being opened from a mile away...not a joke, it's the truth).

That doesn't mean that she always will though. My sisters maltese didn't go deaf until she was around 7 or 8 years old. My daughter has a boxer that is 4, he just went deaf and blind in the last year

[TammyJM]

Originally Posted by phfgkl

That doesn't mean that she always will though. My sisters maltese didn't go deaf until she was around 7 or 8 years old. My daughter has a boxer that is 4, he just went deaf and blind in the last year

Yes, but I do not think that they were talking about age related deafness. Is 7 or 8 years a touch young for this, maybe, but loss of hearing/sight does happen sometimes as any living being ages....is this really the same as what is being suggested in this thread, though??

[Pinehaven]

Originally Posted by Woogie Man

It is true that partis with more color don't seem to have the problem with deafness; it's mainly the ones with a lot of white, especially on the head.

So far, there isn't any problem with our partis and deafness, regardless of how much or little white the dog has.

Originally Posted by Woogie Man

It may not become a problem with the Biewers as they have more color but with the parti it is more random. I think there lies the real chance for problems .

Since there hasn't been a problem yet, I believe it's something that needs to be watched.

Originally Posted by Woogie Man

Who's to say how the pattern will evolve over several generations? .

We already have a number of generations (5 or more) of partis with no problems.

Originally Posted by Woogie Man

With the (standard) Yorkie, there is no chance for deafness from this cause as it has no white so, in that sense, a risk is being added that wasn't there before .

No, the traditional colored yorkie does have reported cases of inherited deafness, not due to white coloring but due other causes/genes.

Originally Posted by Woogie Man

While deafness is the most observable result, there are other negative effects (skin problems and shortened lifespans) that may affect the lives of extreme piebald pups.

I see you've also been reading the information on the YTCA's website "(skin problems and shortened lifespans)" ... this information is so inaccurate, misleading and very biased. Parti, chocolate and golden yorkies are just as healthy (with no skin problems or shortened lifespans) as traditional colored yorkies are.

[Woogie Man]

Originally Posted by Pinehaven

So far, there isn't any problem with our partis and deafness, regardless of how much or little white the dog has.

I think you said it all in the words 'so far'. There is an acknowledged risk that cannot be ignored

Since there hasn't been a problem yet, I believe it's something that needs to be watched.
Maybe more than watched. A proactive attempt to avoid the extreme piebalds might be more in order.


We already have a number of generations (5 or more) of partis with no problems.

Congratulations. That is truly good to hear.

No, the traditional colored yorkie does have reported cases of inherited deafness, not due to white coloring but due other causes/genes.

I was only addressing the additional risk of breeding for the piebald look.

I see you've also been reading the information on the YTCA's website "(skin problems and shortened lifespans)" ... this information is so inaccurate, misleading and very biased. Parti, chocolate and golden yorkies are just as healthy (with no skin problems or shortened lifespans) as traditional colored yorkies are.

Actually, that is one site that I haven't been reading. I've been searching for information of the piebald effect on other breeds. That seems to be where most of the info is. If you have a problem with the YTCA, that's your business. I do think it would be short-sighted to ignore all the other info about piebalds that is available in regards to other breeds. As I posted before...what makes the Yorkie unique so that genetics wouldn't affect them as it has other breeds? Hope my response isn't too confusing. I haven't quite got the hang of multiple quotes.

[Nancy1999]

Originally Posted by Pinehaven

. . .


I see you've also been reading the information on the YTCA's website "(skin problems and shortened lifespans)" ... this information is so inaccurate, misleading and very biased. Parti, chocolate and golden yorkies are just as healthy (with no skin problems or shortened lifespans) as traditional colored yorkies are.

The YTCA as the mother club of the Yorkshire terrier acts like any other good mother when trying to protect its young. As of yet, scientists are still unclear on how these genes are transmitted . . . . so as a good mother the YTCA understands that you don't do something for a child and wait to see if its bad. If you see it's bad for other children (breeds) you are especially cautious. Until scientists know for sure how it's passed, it's not possible to eliminate the deafness or other problems associated with it. The wait and see attitude bothers me because I feel very protective of the breed. When producing new life, isn't always better to error on the side of caution?

[Woogie Man]

Originally Posted by Nancy1999

The YTCA as the mother club of the Yorkshire terrier acts like any other good mother when trying to protect its young

Great analogy, Nancy. While we don't always agree with our parents' rules, we generally see the sense in them later.

[JeanieK]

Originally Posted by Woogie Man

I've said before that I think the partis are lovely dogs so I hope you all know I didn't post to bash anyone. It is true that partis with more color don't seem to have the problem with deafness; it's mainly the ones with a lot of white, especially on the head. It may not become a problem with the Biewers as they have more color but with the parti it is more random. I think there lies the real chance for problems. Who's to say how the pattern will evolve over several generations? With the (standard) Yorkie, there is no chance for deafness from this cause as it has no white so, in that sense, a risk is being added that wasn't there before. The piebald effect has been observed in many breeds and the mechanism for deafness is understood so taking what is known from other breeds will possibly help you to avoid the problems with the extreme piebald effect. It does seem like breed clubs disapprove of this type of breeding even with the knowledge of the cause and effect. Maybe because avoiding the problems is easier said than done? Whether parti breeders can avoid the extreme piebalds remains to be seen. While deafness is the most observable result, there are other negative effects (skin problems and shortened lifespans) that may affect the lives of extreme piebald pups. There is good info available so maybe you can use it to your benefit. From what I've read, those that do breed piebalds frequently have CERF and BAER testing done. These tests may be good tools to use in your breeding program. While it isn't a certainty that any of you will produce deaf puppies, it definitely is a possibility that should be cause for concern.

This statement indicates that you have knowledge of deafness occuring in Parti colored yorkies. Maybe you can tell us which line they are from and how common the occurance is.

[JeanieK]

Originally Posted by phfgkl

That doesn't mean that she always will though. My sisters maltese didn't go deaf until she was around 7 or 8 years old. My daughter has a boxer that is 4, he just went deaf and blind in the last year

My mother didn't go deaf until she was 80 either.