Parti confussion?????

[Nancy1999]

Originally Posted by Woogie Man

I've been reading this thread with a great deal of interest. I'm hesitant to post as the main posters here seem to have done their homework but I do have a question. Isn't the word 'parti' the same as 'piebald'? If so, there are piebald colors in other breeds, and in those cases, it seems that the breed clubs don't accept them either due to potential health risks, mainly deafness. Is there something unique about the Yorkie that exempts it from these risks? I found fairly quickly a few sites about other breeds with piebald concerns, namely the Dachshund, Boston Terrier and Great Dane. Here's some links...health issues....WHITES: IS IT WORTH THE RISKS and, also Health Issues I'm sure there are sites with piebald advocates too, but the piebald issue seems to be well known in the dog world and it seems to be well accepted that there are risks in breeding for that look. I have no expertise with this but am just an interested observer so I may be completely off base. They are lovely dogs but isn't it a little like playing with fire to breed for that look (color), regardless of the origin of the gene?

Yes, the parti color is thought to be from the piebald gene, and you are correct, it has been shown to cause a problem with other breeds. The YTCA frowns upon breeding for it because of the "unknown" health risks. Many Parti breeders state that there has been shown no increased health risks, but it takes a few years before this is known, and the purposeful breeding of the Parti gene is a rather new phenomena. Since no breed club is backing the breeding of Parti, I doubt if there will be any meaningful research on the subject. Most breeders wouldn't want to hear any negative news, so no news is good news.

[Woogie Man]

Originally Posted by phfgkl

You just got me thinking too, and now, I'm curious about this as well. I know that white cats with (I think it's blue eyes) are also deaf

Well, I'll admit to being ignorant about this but it seems odd that when other breeds are negatively affected by the piebald gene that it would be any different for the Yorkie.

[Woogie Man]

Originally Posted by Nancy1999

Yes, the parti color is thought to be from the piebald gene, and you are correct, it has been shown to cause a problem with other breeds. The YTCA frowns upon breeding for it because of the "unknown" health risks. Many Parti breeders state that there has been shown no increased health risks, but it takes a few years before this is known, and the purposeful breeding of the Parti gene is a rather new phenomena. Since no breed club is backing the breeding of Parti, I doubt if there will be any meaningful research on the subject. Most breeders wouldn't want to hear any negative news, so no news is good news.

Yes, while many faults can be bred out, it seems like breeding for the parti color is rushing headlong into a lot of potential grief. The details of where the gene came from is irrelevant. Why breed FOR a trait that is known to cause health issues?

[Nancy1999]

Originally Posted by Woogie Man

Well, I'll admit to being ignorant about this but it seems odd that when other breeds are negatively affected by the piebald gene that it would be any different for the Yorkie.

Here's a link I posted earlier. DEAF PUPPIES. It explain that one cause of deafness is linked to the piebald gene, but it's not 100 percent, and they don't understand how it's transmitted yet. Some of us think because of this, the recessive trait should not be bred. Others think because the dog is pretty, it's ok to breed for it. Then the fights start.

[Nancy1999]

Originally Posted by Woogie Man

Yes, while many faults can be bred out, it seems like breeding for the parti color is rushing headlong into a lot of potential grief. The details of where the gene came from is irrelevant. Why breed FOR a trait that is known to cause health issues?

Exactly! That when I usually suggest one motivation might be money.

[Woogie Man]

In my browsing around, it doesn't seem to be that debatable an issue with other breeds. Funny how it brings so much debate with the Yorkie. I just started by googling 'piebald health issues in dogs' and got a ton of info. You would think that the wealth of info for other breeds would be a huge red flag for anyone wanting to breed for that look.

[Woogie Man]

Here's a quote from the Boston Terrier link I posted earlier..."First Part of Deafness Study

This post will attempt to define deafness in dogs as has been discussed on this list. Unless otherwise stated, all references and quotations will be from several published studies by George M. Strain, Professor of Neuroscience, School of Veterinary Medicine, Louisiana State University. Dr. Strain is deemed the leading authority on the subject of deafness in dogs and cats.

Of the eight known classifications of deafness, only three are common in dogs: inherited congenital sensorineural, acquired later-onset sensorineural, and acquired later-onset conductive. It is the inherited congenital sensorineural deafness that we have been discussing on this list.

To quote Dr. Strain: "Inherited congenital sensorineural deafness is usually, but not always, associated with pigmentation genes responsible for white in the coat." This is usually associated with pigmentation patterns-- such as our BTs' white blaze, collar, and chest-- "where increasing amounts of white in the hair coat increases the likelihood of deafness." The two pigmentation genes most often associated with deafness are the merle and the piebald. It is, specifically, the piebald gene that we are concerned with in Boston Terriers. When these piebald genes (responsible for the white) are overly expressed, the other pigment genes normally in the blood supply are repressed. Now this "tainted" blood supply to the cochlea, causes degeneration of the nerve cells, which causes irreversible deafness."

[bchgirl]

Originally Posted by JeanieK

I am not talking about your breed club registry.

I know they are not registered with the AKC. But I know they have to registered with an all breed registry, for purebred dogs, for showing purposes. CKC APRI, ACA, ACR, ABRA, APR, APA, NAKC, UABR, ETC. The list is long. since the BTCA is most likely not recognized yet by any of these registries, the must be registered as something else.

You say you have answered the question, I must have missed it, so could you please post it again? And which breeds of dogs were used to develop the breed.

The following are where biewers are shown as a breed of their own....NAKC, IABCA, and ARBA. So no, it is not necessary to register with any of the registeries you've listed above.

Mine aren't registered with BTCA but Frazier has shown under IABCA and will be shown again under NAKC.

[yorkiekist]

Originally Posted by Woogie Man

Here's a quote from the Boston Terrier link I posted earlier..."First Part of Deafness Study

This post will attempt to define deafness in dogs as has been discussed on this list. Unless otherwise stated, all references and quotations will be from several published studies by George M. Strain, Professor of Neuroscience, School of Veterinary Medicine, Louisiana State University. Dr. Strain is deemed the leading authority on the subject of deafness in dogs and cats.

Of the eight known classifications of deafness, only three are common in dogs: inherited congenital sensorineural, acquired later-onset sensorineural, and acquired later-onset conductive. It is the inherited congenital sensorineural deafness that we have been discussing on this list.

To quote Dr. Strain: "Inherited congenital sensorineural deafness is usually, but not always, associated with pigmentation genes responsible for white in the coat." This is usually associated with pigmentation patterns-- such as our BTs' white blaze, collar, and chest-- "where increasing amounts of white in the hair coat increases the likelihood of deafness." The two pigmentation genes most often associated with deafness are the merle and the piebald. It is, specifically, the piebald gene that we are concerned with in Boston Terriers. When these piebald genes (responsible for the white) are overly expressed, the other pigment genes normally in the blood supply are repressed. Now this "tainted" blood supply to the cochlea, causes degeneration of the nerve cells, which causes irreversible deafness."

That is a good informative post!! Thanks!! I guess only time will tell if this will effect the parti or biewers.

[bchgirl]

Originally Posted by yorkiekist

That is a good informative post!! Thanks!! I guess only time will tell if this will effect the parti or biewers.

You almost sound happy at the prospect.

[yorkiekist]

Originally Posted by bchgirl

You almost sound happy at the prospect.

Yeah, it would make me sooooooooooooooo happy that all of the cute little parti/biewers couldnt hear. That wasnt very nice.

[Pinehaven]

Originally Posted by Woogie Man

Yes, while many faults can be bred out, it seems like breeding for the parti color is rushing headlong into a lot of potential grief. The details of where the gene came from is irrelevant. Why breed FOR a trait that is known to cause health issues?

Not all dogs who are white or parti colored, have hearing problems. There are many breeds with those colors who don't have higher than normal deafness rates in their breed. Deafness is often seen in breeds when there is increased amounts of white colour in the coat and blue eyes . We have not seen problems with the Parti's and they've been breeding now for over 10 years (not that that is a long period of time but you'd suspect we'd be seeing some problems during that length of time?)

[JeanieK]

Originally Posted by Nancy1999

Exactly! That when I usually suggest one motivation might be money.

I don't think there would be much profit in breeding deaf blind dogs.

[Nancy1999]

Originally Posted by Pinehaven

Not all dogs who are white or parti colored, have hearing problems. There are many breeds with those colors who don't have higher than normal deafness rates in their breed. Deafness is often seen in breeds when there is increased amounts of white colour in the coat and blue eyes . We have not seen problems with the Parti's and they've been breeding now for over 10 years (not that that is a long period of time but you'd suspect we'd be seeing some problems during that length of time?)

While the Biewer has breed clubs, the Parti has none, so who would be gathering the data if there was a connection?

[JeanieK]

Originally Posted by bchgirl

The following are where biewers are shown as a breed of their own....NAKC, IABCA, and ARBA. So no, it is not necessary to register with any of the registeries you've listed above.

Mine aren't registered with BTCA but Frazier has shown under IABCA and will be shown again under NAKC.

Well the ones I listed were just a few of the over 100 out there.

What breed are they registered as, and which breeds were used to create them?