Parti confussion?????

[yorkiekist]

Originally Posted by Nancy1999

I think many people read these threads and wonder what's all the fuss about. Why can't people just buy whatever pup they like, they are all beautiful. As the OP understood in post 12, this is not about beauty, it really is about the health of the dogs. I'm an advocate of good breeding, and I feel that breeders, who specialize in any rare trait, whether it is the Parti trait, extra tiny size, or apple head, are hurting the breed. Some breeders don't believe that they are harming the breed, but since they sell their dogs to others for breeding purposes, (many with no real breeding credentials) and also encourage the popularity of the anomalies, they are indeed hurting the breed. Good breeding involves many different things; it's a science as well as an art. As I have done more research on the subject of breeding, I've come to believe that because we kill millions of dogs yearly in pounds, responsible breeding is extremely important. Reading the sick and emergency forums reiterates the need for responsible breeding, not just beautiful dogs. There is a very real concern with breeding for the recessive trait, and offspring should be monitored and tested for the incidence of disease. So for me, this isn't just about beautiful dogs. Now I'm sure some of you will say, there's way more normal looking yorkies in the sick and emergency forum than there are partis, and I just want to say, "UNCLE."

Great post Nancy!!

[QuickSilver]

Originally Posted by Nancy1999

I think many people read these threads and wonder what's all the fuss about. Why can't people just buy whatever pup they like, they are all beautiful. As the OP understood in post 12, this is not about beauty, it really is about the health of the dogs. I'm an advocate of good breeding, and I feel that breeders, who specialize in any rare trait, whether it is the Parti trait, extra tiny size, or apple head, are hurting the breed. Some breeders don't believe that they are harming the breed, but since they sell their dogs to others for breeding purposes, (many with no real breeding credentials) and also encourage the popularity of the anomalies, they are indeed hurting the breed. Good breeding involves many different things; it's a science as well as an art. As I have done more research on the subject of breeding, I've come to believe that because we kill millions of dogs yearly in pounds, responsible breeding is extremely important. Reading the sick and emergency forums reiterates the need for responsible breeding, not just beautiful dogs. There is a very real concern with breeding for the recessive trait, and offspring should be monitored and tested for the incidence of disease. So for me, this isn't just about beautiful dogs. Now I'm sure some of you will say, there's way more normal looking yorkies in the sick and emergency forum than there are partis, and I just want to say, "UNCLE."

Isn't this true of any breeding program, though? Breeding for any trait besides health reduces the gene pool, and makes the breed less robust. Even in breeding for health, you might reduce the chances for one disease and accidentally increase the chances for another. In fact, simply breeding pure breds at all by definition indicates you are working with a limited gene pool.

Personally, I'm curious as to whether the parti coloring is controlled by one gene or many. It would appear to me to most likely be the later. Any opinions?

[Nancy1999]

Originally Posted by QuickSilver

Isn't this true of any breeding program, though? Breeding for any trait besides health reduces the gene pool, and makes the breed less robust. Even in breeding for health, you might reduce the chances for one disease and accidentally increase the chances for another. In fact, simply breeding pure breds at all by definition indicates you are working with a limited gene pool.

Personally, I'm curious as to whether the parti coloring is controlled by one gene or many. It would appear to me to most likely be the later. Any opinions?

If your desire is truly to bread only for robustness, then you should probably take man out of the mix. Nature breeds for robustness. Put 100 dogs together let them decide with whom to mate, and let them settle the arguments, and find their food. In 100 years or so, the remaining dogs will probably be very robust, but I doubt if anybody would want them as a "pet." Well, maybe Michael Vick. There's nothing wrong with breeding for certain traits if you really know what your doing. Unfortunately very few do.


From what I understand, the parti trait that is seen in many animals is controlled by one gene that is recessive. Some people believe a second gene causes the spotting you see on Biewer. These views were obtained from Yorkietalk, and haven't been throughly researched.

[bchgirl]

Originally Posted by Nancy1999

These views were obtained from Yorkietalk, and haven't been throughly researched.

Laughing....a disclaimer. This thread probably needs a lot of disclaimers.

[Missiemiss]

It is my opinion that views have been expressed and this thread has gone as far as it can go. We have seen personal attacks and THAT is not what this forum is about.

Deep breathes people!

I would recommend to close the thread but that's not my call to make. I just think it's a good idea for the sake of the forum.

[Nancy1999]

Originally Posted by Missiemiss

It is my opinion that views have been expressed and this thread has gone as far as it can go. We have seen personal attacks and THAT is not what this forum is about.

Deep breathes people!

I would recommend to close the thread but that's not my call to make. I just think it's a good idea for the sake of the forum.

The last few pages there have been no fights. QuickSilver asked a new question, and wanted people's opinion on it. Personally, I would like to see one Parti thread not closed.

[chachi]

I hope it doesnt get closed I am learning alot on this and the other Parti thread

[sierrapups]

Originally Posted by JeanieK

So they are not registered in the existing registries? I'm not sure of all of the various registries out there, just the AKC and he CKC, but i know there are others. Pruett had said they were registered as yorkies, just before she was escorted from the forum and her post deleted.

I don't see anywhere that Gayle posted that the Biewer Terriers are being registered as yorkies. Maybe you need to clarify that statement as it is very misleading.
Being that you have a Parti yorkie and not a Biewer, again I am going to ask you, why are you so insistant on knowing what is in the Biewer Breed? Wouldn't you be better served testing your Parti yorkie to see if there isn't anything bred into it to make it so white?

[Breezeaway]

IMO the same gene that was in these dogs that made them have white is the same gene that make partis white.

[chachi]

Originally Posted by sierrapups

I don't see anywhere that Gayle posted that the Biewer Terriers are being registered as yorkies. Maybe you need to clarify that statement as it is very misleading.
Being that you have a Parti yorkie and not a Biewer, again I am going to ask you, why are you so insistant on knowing what is in the Biewer Breed? Wouldn't you be better served testing your Parti yorkie to see if there isn't anything bred into it to make it so white?

Cant we have a discussion without knocking someones dog??

[JeanieK]

Originally Posted by Nancy1999

The last few pages there have been no fights. QuickSilver asked a new question, and wanted people's opinion on it. Personally, I would like to see one Parti thread not closed.

I believe that is one thing we both can agree on.

[JeanieK]

Originally Posted by sierrapups

I don't see anywhere that Gayle posted that the Biewer Terriers are being registered as yorkies. Maybe you need to clarify that statement as it is very misleading.
Being that you have a Parti yorkie and not a Biewer, again I am going to ask you, why are you so insistant on knowing what is in the Biewer Breed? Wouldn't you be better served testing your Parti yorkie to see if there isn't anything bred into it to make it so white?

Pruett had made that statement, (apparently not too nicely) in t he post that was deleted. I specified that in the post. although since she is not around to defend herself, maybe someone else will explain.

I am trying to learn just like everyone else. There seems to be som controversy over which breeds were used to create the biewer terrier,

which registries they are registered in (and you can't just make up your own registry). I am referring to the all breed registries such as the AKC and the CKC.

And what they are registered as, since the registries do not have a breed called Biewer terrier.

I don't see why some people get angry when I ask those questions. Why not just answer them.

The partis are yorkies, the AKC says they are yorkies, the leading yorkie authority in the US says they are yorkies.

However, just like with the biewers, I am sure there are lines that have other breeds mixedin because as we have already stated, not all breeders, show or otherwise are reputable.

[JeanieK]

Originally Posted by Breezeaway

IMO the same gene that was in these dogs that made them have white is the same gene that make partis white.

What beautiful pictures.

[sierrapups]

Originally Posted by chachi

Cant we have a discussion without knocking someones dog??

Please don't try and turn this into another argument. I didn't think I was knocking her dog. I was asking her a legitimate question. From her avatar it seems to me that there is a lot of white in her dog. I hope we are looking at the same dog.
I think that it would be very interesting to see what the Mars tests show on the Parti yorkies.

[QuickSilver]

Originally Posted by Nancy1999

If your desire is truly to bread only for robustness, then you should probably take man out of the mix. Nature breeds for robustness. Put 100 dogs together let them decide with whom to mate, and let them settle the arguments, and find their food. In 100 years or so, the remaining dogs will probably be very robust, but I doubt if anybody would want them as a "pet." Well, maybe Michael Vick. There's nothing wrong with breeding for certain traits if you really know what your doing. Unfortunately very few do.


From what I understand, the parti trait that is seen in many animals is controlled by one gene that is recessive. Some people believe a second gene causes the spotting you see on Biewer. These views were obtained from Yorkietalk, and haven't been throughly researched.

Thanks for your response. I agree with your first paragraph -- what I mean is, by definition, breeding dogs shrinks the gene pool, so whether you are breeding for a flawless-looking yorkie or for some other physical trait, be that size or color, doesn't seem that different to me, except possibly in degree. I can see an objection to teacups because small yorkies have more trouble whelping, or because runts are less healthy in general. However, it doesn't appear to me that breeding, say, for an apple-shaped head is much different from what a standard breeder would do. Isn't the real difference whether or not a club has set the standard you're following?

Breeding in general seems like a grey area to me. No planned breeding at all, and eventually you end up with wolves again. Breeding for extreme physical traits will result in very unhealthy dogs. Pure breds, mutts, "designer" dogs, cross breeds, these seem like different shades on the spectrum.

I will add my own disclaimer that I haven't studied dog breeding, so I can't pretend to be an expert, but when has that stopped someone from having an opinion?

Also, I would guess that most dog traits we see are expressed by recessive genes, because if dogs come from wolves, well, yorkies don't look a whole lot like wolves.