When I looked at the Parti Yorkies in 2004 they all seemed very washed out .There was nothing about them that was stunning.The Biewer on the other hand ,had vibrant colors,beautiful patterns and a fresh crisp look.It reminded me of the Woolite commercial and how colors look after using the wrong detergent.Only recently have we seen Partiyorkies with more prominent colors.The question is, are these dogs still parti yorkies or have the been bred to Biewers?We have come across a few Parti Yorkie owners ,that are registering simultaneously ,Parti Yorkies as Biewers with the IBC.

I know with a lot of the clubs for Biewers you have to have the mom & dad dna tested, and to reg. the puppy you have to have it dna also, which I think is great, they should do that with all dogs before you register them as pure "whatever". That would cut down on the mixing and trying to register them as something they aren't.:)

Interesting post, but I'm confused. I've read that the IBC only recognizes dogs whose parents are registered with them so how could a parti owner, who registry I would assume to be AKC, do this? Here's something I came across about this (though from a breeder's site so not sure of the accuracy of it)..."Q. Will my Biewer be registered when I purchase him?

A. If your Biewer was imported from Germany, he must already be registered by his breeder in one of the various German clubs. One German Club is not better than the other and all of the German Clubs recognize each other's registrations and pedigrees. If you have not been shown the dog's registration and pedigree prior to purchasing him, beware.

If your Biewer was purchased from an American breeder, he should also already be registered by his breeder. There are a few American Clubs that have begun their own registries to track the Biewer breeding in this country. A parent club with acurate pedigree records is part of the AKC requirement for breed recognition. Once again, if you have not seen the registration and pedigree for a dog before purchase, beware.

Q. What American registry is best?

A. In the United States there are very good Biewer Club registries that recognize each other's registrations. They are the Biewer Breed International Registry BBIR and the Biewer National Registry BNR . American registries and parent clubs are required by the AKC for future recognition of the Biewer.

There is only one registry, the IBC, that does not recognize other registries of American born Biewer puppies, regardless whether these puppies' parents have German or American registries or both. Beware. The IBC claims that if your dog is not IBC registered, the dog is devalued. This is not true. It also claims to be the only ligitimate registry and claims to be the largest and the premier club in Germany. These claims are false and are perceived to be an attempt to scare breeders and buyers into joining the IBC and to prevent buyers from purchasing dogs under other registries. Do not be fooled by this marketing strategy. Note, the DHZ e.V. is the same organization as the IBC and is run by the same individual. Look around at your options, investigate, and make your own decision on what is the best fit for you. "....Here's the link these quotes came from...Biewer Frequently Asked Questions

I found this on the ARBA website. I'm only quoting the part of the Biewer standard as it relates to color. The full standard is on the site. " Head coloring is (Blue/Black, White, Gold/Tan); (Blue/Black, Gold/Tan); (Gold/Tan, White) in good symmetry.



Hair coloring on back is blue or black and white. Amounts of each color are of personal preference with no dominating patterns.



Chest, Stomach, Legs and tip of the Tail is absolutely white. The white from the chest should come up the neck to cover the chin.



Temperament of the Biewer Terrier is intelligent, loyal and very devoted to their human family. They have a fun loving, child like attitude that makes them a great companion for all ages.



Weight is 4 to 8 pounds.



Faults are a roach or rounded back; brown, gold or tan anywhere on the body, legs, or tail; pale nostrils; floppy ears; over 8 lbs"...Here's the link..Biewer Terrier Breed Standard

I came into this thread late and my interest was piqued by the link Nancy1999 posted earlier about deafness in dogs (post #106). It was easy to find a lot of info regarding deafness and the piebald link as one cause. I also found some info about the Biewer being included in a recent piebald genetics study. Here's a quote.....

"The Piebald (Spotting) Gene Study

Researchers have now pinpointed a variation in the genetic code at a specific point on the DNA called SNP's that
are associated with white coat color. The highest-ranking SNP from their analysis resides in assection of the dog
genome that contains one gene, called MITF, an important developmental gene. Here is where the SINE
mutation (an inherited change in the genetic material of an individual) takes place. (SINE is a type of small
dispersed repetitive DNA sequence) SINE/SINE shows homozygous inheritance (having like alleles in the same
location). This mutation is what is now identified to express the piebald coat.

Okay, so now what?

What does this mean to the Biewer world? The answer is two fold.

The Biewer breeds white coat pattern is indeed a result of the piebald gene, not from another dog being bred
into the Yorkshire Terrier.

Is the Biewer in any health danger due to being piebald? There is no data on this presently. White coat color has
been identified in other studies as the cause of deafness in Dalmatians and anomalies in other breeds with white
coat patterns. However, because Biewers have pigment of Blue/Black/Tan/Goldother than white around the ears
and eyes on the head, it is suspected, not proven, that the Biewer escapes the anomalies due to the presence of
darker pigment. This is a strong case supporting a practice to breed selectively in order to keep the strong head
colors present."

...Here's the link this quote came from...Biewer Breed Club of America Health Regisrty... BBCA

Whatever...............I would in no way combine the 2 in any way. You can beiieve what you
will ................


the parti's are not washed out

People you need to move on, get over it partis are a part of the yorkie breed, whether you like it or not they are AKC registered

Just look at my Niickolas he is a parti,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,but a great example he his

It is very interesting that you say this. Back in 2004 when I was looking into the parti Yorkies, there was in woman in So. Cal that was breeding them and there were not that many around and they were DEFINITELY much much lighter than what they are now.
I personally chose the Biewer because of the intense coloring and not the soft "washed out", no insult intended, of the parti.
Would someone care to explain how the parti is now developing to look more and more like the Biewer?

Hi Deb,
Nicholas is beautiful Yorkie!!

My Chaos is a beautiful little parti yorkie too!! :D He's not all washed out, nor does he have any Biewer blood. He is AKC DNA'd from a known line of DNA'd parti yorkie's should anyone doubt his heritage because of his colors. :rolleyes:

Correct me if I am wrong, but AKC only requires for the sire to be DNA ed .I seriously doubt that any of the more colorful looking Parti Yorkies are older than 4 years.I have many pictures of Parti Yorkies and none of them look like what is sold as a Parti today.

I was wondering this myself 6 years ago when I started to look into these parti yorkies being a Yorkie breeder myself. I am very protective of my lines and for my own sake had both parents DNA'd. After researching as much as I could about the parti yorkies, that is how I stumbled upon the Biewers. Research after research and talking to many breeders both Biewer and parti, I got a better understanding of what was going on. The Biewer caught my eye because of the standard they were holding true too. I am not downing the parti's but I wanted to concentrate on a new breed that would hold more true to a standard you could work with. And I liked the fact that both parents going out into 4 and 5th generation now are both DNA tested. This helps when you want to perfect a new breed and don't need to prove to anyone who the true parents are.

Would you be willing to post his/her pedigree? Not doubting you one bit but we have an extensive documentation of Biewer pedigrees which would be interesting to further our studies.

The Standard that you have linked to and posted, is a standard followed by the BTCA or BTCA members. They are the only people that follow that standard which includes a two colored head.

Other clubs have continued to follow the three colored head and have no interest in breeding for a two colored head.http://www.raritiesinc.ca/breeds/bre...rds/Biewer.pdf

That is correct the BTCA is the only Club following a standard that includes a 2 colored head.The revised standard by Mrs.Biewer.The co founder of this breed,the one that is highly disgusted with people that post on their web site ,that they are following Mr.Biewers dream ,a man they have never known or even have the faintest idea what his plan for this breed was.I am just wondering why you take every opportunity to criticize the BTCA.You and your club BBCI/BBCA are using a standard that was written by some Mi-Ki breeders.
Why would they and their standard be a better choice than Mrs Biewer.?

I find it so interesting that a few of the people that are constantly telling the Biewer world,how it should be done ,have not even had a litter of Biewer puppies yet.It seems to me like the virgin giving the rules on child rearing.People that are breeders and not just forum posters know, that the addition to the standard is no thread to the Biewer,since almost all of the Biewer puppies born, have a 3 colored head.The challenge seems to be how do we breed ,that the dogs will keep the vibrant colors through adulthood.

What will you do if your breeding program produces two colors in the head instead of three? How will you approach this? Will the puppies be culled or sold as non-desirable? Just wondering as you must speak from a 4 to 5 generation breeding program to support such a standard.

Thank you, but perhaps you are confused by my post?:confused:
I was posting a responce to the previous poster who was listing the BTCA standard.It may not be clear to many researching the breed that there is more than the BTCA standard.
How you see that as criticizing is beyond me.
In my opinion you should look a little closer at your own posts.

If you are trying to make an observation regarding myself and my breeding program.............. you are commenting on something you know nothing of.
:thumbdown

There are some lovely three colored Biewers who are producing some beautiful offspring.And many including the group of Biewer Enthusiast I have come to know both BBCA, BBCC ,and the BYTNCA have chosen to be very selective while working towards producing progeny with a tri colored head.
I really don't understand your banter regarding one club or another, you have chosen your's and I have chosen another.
Here are some examples of some Beautifully Tri colored Biewers
Photo_Gallery
Hopefully those who are interested in the Biewer breed are continuing to research . Research all Biewer Clubs,visit some up comming shows and or Specialties.
Regardless of club affiliations it is very important to see the Biewers in the Ring, feel the coats.... talk with many Show Exhibitors.Research the dogs behind the offspring.
Everyone I have had the pleasure of meeting in person at any shows I have attended ,have been very helpful as well as friendly,and always excited and eager to talk about the Breed.
Select a mentor who's ideals best mirror your own and your breeding programs goals and ideals.
I have personally shown in Ontario Rare Breed, IABCA as well as NAKC.
Choosing not to show in ARBA ( due to the 2 colored head) in the Standard)
This is my personal choice.


Jan

Unfortunately you always chose whatever forum that is discussing the Biewer to push your club affiliations and to "bash" the BTCA and research. You however have not posted how many litters you have produced and how they are turning out. Would it not be better to inform us as to how your breeding program is going rather than to discount any scientific reasearch that is being done?
Delight has the wonderful privilage to be a friend of Mrs. Biewer and converses with her at least once a week. Through these conversation she has been able to learn what the Biewer's goals were with this breed and how she feels about the work we are doing now.
Why is it so difficult for some to see that a breed evolves and that the Biewer has actually become its own breed?
By chosing not to show with ARBA you are only denying yourselves the opportunity to show with an accepted show venue that is well respected by the larger dog community.
Furthermore I don't think your little thumbs down etc. icons serve well in an informed discussion.

I can't understand why my posts keep coming up that the moderator needs to review them? I am not bashing anyone. However, hopefully this one will go through. Will the BBCI help me to understand why Donna Hall no longer shows Biewer's. I knew her history when she first started a Biewer club and was really horrified as to what happened to her first Biewer. However, why has she moved away from this beautiful breed? Why is she now showing the Mi Ki? I would like to speak with her direct but possibly someone will help me understand her reasoning for moving away from this breed?

This question is for Enchanted Toi. What will you do if your 3rd or 4th generation of Biewers come out with two colors in the head? Which I'm sure they will do because I know your pedigrees and have seen litters produced from these pedigrees who are not club affiliates and have two colors in the head.

I'm as curious as Delightful is Jan, as to the outcome of your 1st and 2nd generations in your breeding program. As for you not wanting to show with ARBA because of the allowing of 2 colors in the head is your purgative. I myself am more worried about health and structure problems. I've seen many dogs in the NACK and IABCA ring with 2 colors in the head, roach backs, colors (black and brown) coming down the leg (sometimes 2 or 3 legs), and longer bodies, none of which are in the standard your club uses that Donna and Christine wrote, not Mr. Biewer.

You say "BBCA, BBCC ,and the BYTNCA have chosen to be very selective while working towards producing progeny with a tri colored head". The BYTNC breeds Yorkies and Biewers together and now you're saying this is OK to get the 3 colors in the head?

I'm curious why the importance of head coloring has superseded the importance of breeding healthy dogs? You yourself contacted a breeder that was selling the same lines that your girl with L.S. came from and explained your heartbreak and how could she put others through this. You then had a few choice words for her and her breeding program. A few other members of the BBCI have expressed their opinions about anyone that would knowingly breed these lines and how they were just in it for the money, etc.........Why has this opinion all the sudden changed? Is it because of the money? How many cases of L.S. have we seen in the last couple of years?

Diane Klimb wrote a very interesting article last year in the ShowSight magazine called Liver and Onions which I have been given permission to post. We have been very busy getting health testing line up for our dogs when the DNA profiling is done and organizing another genetic study on coat color and sizing, that we just haven't had time to post it. Hopefully we will have it posted on the BTCA, Inc. sight by tonight, so check Biewer Terrier Club of America, Inc. periodically to see if it's up.

Thank you Moderator! The forum has now become fair and balanced.

You are funny Obie. :)

Per your question about Donna, she never got more than the 2 people that her club started with to join. Also people started checking out her claims of accomplishments, and found out they weren't true. If you want her phone no# PM me and I'll give it to you.

Thank you .. but please do not put words in my mouth.
Health has and always been a top priority with me.
No where in my previous post did I say that a tri colored head is more important than health and structure. Pleeeeeeeeease!:rolleyes:
And what Cattia has to do with this post regarding Standard is beyond me.
Cattia was imported with a Livershunt at 14 weeks old from Germany, she has been surgically corrected and spayed to the tune of thousands of dollars.. For you to suggest my interest in not in health is totally un called for and untrue.

You are responding to the wrong post, I am not Pruett, I am Obie.

Jan,
When you kept asking about what was in the Biewers we sent you the results of one of your fellow members. Now we are asking you about your litters and you refuse to answer. Is it possible that you have never bred Biewers?

If you are trying to make an observation regarding myself and my breeding program.............. you are commenting on something you know nothing of.

You are right Enchanted, I know nothing about your breeding program.Even so you have been posting for quite some time about your breeding program .We have yet to see a litter you have produced.What is all the secrecy about??

Enchanted Toi, we know about Cattia, my heart went out to you regarding this beautiful Biewer. I am so sorry for what has transpired with her. Do you not think we too felt your pain. It does not matter from this point forward what club affiliation you belong too or what your beliefs are. It is for the betterment of the breed! A learning experience no other breeder needs to endure but needs to learn from and move on. This is why the efforts of the Biewer community needs to come together. We know all the history. We know just about everything that needs to be known about the Biewer. We have all the pedigrees and own Biewers from the same pedigrees. That is why it is so important to come together and stop all this denial as to what you have, she has. WE KNOW IT ALL. These records are published and continue to be monitored. You and your members need to let it go and get on board. Is it a matter of concessions? What concessions? Everything you post on your club we have. Been there, done that. What will you and your members do when they produce the same thing we have in our standard for the Biewer Terrier. Again, my question is, what are you going to cull them? I have spoken to members of the BBCI, I have the same thing they have. They are not going to prove anything that we have not already struggled with in our breeding programs. Why are you having such difficulty in letting it go. I know many breeders in Canada who are struggling with the same breeding programs. Why can't you let it go. Why?

I have posted this before and I will post it again....

This thread needs to be closed.

If you want to know about each others breeding programs - PM each other, exchange emails and for heaven's sake - put each other on your Christmas Card list.

This bickering has got to stop - it is not longer a "healthy" debate and I am disappointed that the mods and admin has let it go on this far. Shame Shame. :thumbdown

I bet the newbies are really getting an eyeful on what membership is all about.


Turn and walk away - be proud of your program. Be proud of your furbaby - the baby you have now whether you breed or not. Stop the nonsense!

*stepping down off my virtual soapbox*

"Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain"


:animal-pa