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10-13-2008, 08:13 PM | #46 |
Donating Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Mississippi
Posts: 2,564
| Thanks, Denise, for the suggestions. I have the Nutri-drops and was using it but stopped once I had made the beef liver broth. I'm afraid if I used both they would get too much iron. Right now, the supplement I'm using is called Just Born. It's a ready to use liquid. Do you really think the bitch's milk from Revival is really better? Do they still need the colostrum? They were born Wed. night so they're now 5 days old. If it works really better, I could call Revival tomorrow and get it over-nighted. I'm feeding them with a tapered eye dropper so I can meter their intake really well and so far don't seem to have a problem with it getting up their noses and such. They're so small, I can't really burp them but do massage their sides and bellies when they're done eating. I then hold them up and Bonnie diapers them before I place them back with her. Is the Nurse Mate some type of bottle? These babies don't really open their mouths wide while eating and are so small I'm not sure I could use a bottle of any type just yet but may well need one as they grow. The whelping pudding I made for Bonnie has vanilla pudding, yogurt, evaporated milk, egg yolks and canned pumpkin in it. Do you think using goat's milk in that instead of the evaporated would be better? |
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10-13-2008, 08:27 PM | #47 | |
YT 500 Club Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: granite falls n.c
Posts: 557
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__________________ Denise | |
10-13-2008, 08:29 PM | #48 |
Donating Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Mississippi
Posts: 2,564
| Okay, I checked my Revival catalog and found the Nurse Mate. They also sell the Just Born that I'm now using and it says it has colostrum in it. They also have something called Milkade which is supposed to help in producing more milk. I'll call tomorrow and see about getting these things. |
10-14-2008, 08:04 AM | #49 |
YT 1000 Club Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: California
Posts: 1,778
| Jim, my heart goes out to you. This is such a trying time. I'm sorry you lost your little girl, it can be devastating. It sounds like between the supplement and the liver remedy you are doing the best you can right now. I'm glad they got a little sub-Q, that should help. I know it is exhausting, do you have anyone who could watch over them for a short time for you? I gave my moms the whelping pudding (as much as they wanted at first) and a little cottage cheese a few times a day. Anything to get extra calcium into mom. Karo in her water also seemed to make her more interested in drinking liquids and gave her a little energy. Does she seem to be producing enough milk now? My very best wishes to you for the strength to see this through, and to your babies for the tenacity to keep going. Hoping for a great outcome here.
__________________ LaVail Yorkshire Terriers |
10-14-2008, 01:08 PM | #50 |
Donating Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Mississippi
Posts: 2,564
| Katelin, unfortunately we lost a second girl this morning. She was like a twin in size to the first one we lost and was oh so tiny. My wife took an extra day off work yesterday to help me. I showed her how to feed them and she was going to feed them for their 6 AM feeding while I napped. She got me up because the pup was gasping and in distress. I was surprised at this because she was doing well at her 4 o'clock feeding but I could tell she wouldn't make it and all I could do was comfort her. I did get her to relax and stop gasping and she passed quietly around 8 o'clock. We're terribly upset and completely frazzled but have to maintain for the others. As for the others, we now have 4. Of the 4, 3 of them have 'plumped' and are doing well. Two of those are eating off Mom entirely and we're not supplementing. The third plump girl I'm still supplementing but she doesn't look like she needs it anymore. I may back off on her if she continues to progress. There's still one girl that is doing better but is still very frail. She is eating well when I feed her but still looks a bit dehydrated even though I've been sub-Qing her every 12 hours (1cc) since yesterday. Hopefully, she'll turn the corner but isn't out of the woods yet. For some reason, Bonnie hasn't wanted to eat today but I finally just got her to eat something a while ago. She wouldn't even drink water today until she finally ate. I think she's upset about her babies too. She seems well, no temp or anything and is producing a good amount of milk. I'll keep trying to coax her into eating more now that her gut is going again. I just hope the worst is over and the little one keeps getting stronger. I don't feel 'guilty' but it's impossible to not feel like I've failed with these babies. Experience is not a gentle teacher. |
10-14-2008, 01:13 PM | #51 |
Donating YT 2000 Club Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Madison, MS
Posts: 2,597
| Jim, I'm sorry about the second little girl. Just know that you are doing the best you can for these babies. Hopefully #4 will plump up soon and things will get easier soon.
__________________ Misty & Jamie |
10-14-2008, 01:19 PM | #52 |
YT Addict Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Arizona
Posts: 425
| You have done all you possibly can to help these babies so don't feel like you've failed them. This is an emotional rollercoaster you are on, I've been there also and know the heartbreak and how this takes it's toll on you. Hang in there and hopefully they will all be nursing on mom soon and be fat and happy and you can get a breather. You are doing a great job!! |
10-14-2008, 02:44 PM | #53 |
Donating Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Mississippi
Posts: 2,564
| Thanks, ladies, for the moral support. My hat is off to anyone that's ever been through this before. I've had tinies before but never a pup that didn't thrive from day one. I just finished a feeding and my littlest one took in a bit more than she has before. I'm using a 1cc eyedropper to feed them and her intake up til now has been between 1.5 to 2 cc plus a few drops of beef liver broth. This time she took in about 2.5 cc plus the broth. I'm afraid to up the volume too quickly on her but if she does well, I'll try to slowly increase the amount. One question about the beef liver broth. Everything I've read says to feed about 4 drops per feeding but the recipe is not very specific about making the broth. I'm sure the strength of it determines the amount to feed. What I made has about the color of chicken broth. Would this be considered weak, strong or just about right? If it's weak, I could increase the amount I give them but I don't want to overdo it. I'd appreciate any input about this. Jim |
10-14-2008, 03:30 PM | #54 |
YT 1000 Club Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: California
Posts: 1,778
| Jim, I've made the recipe, but never had to use it. Like you, I would be cautious of overwhelming the system with too strong a dose. I hope someone else has more experience with this for you. So sorry for your loss. I'm keeping the faith for the rest of them and for you.
__________________ LaVail Yorkshire Terriers |
10-14-2008, 03:51 PM | #55 |
YT Addict Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Arizona
Posts: 425
| I never did use the liver recipe either. Nutridrops are great though, I really feel like they helped my tiny ones to keep up strength. A drop in the morning and in the evening. |
10-14-2008, 03:56 PM | #56 |
Donating YT 4000 Club Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Texas
Posts: 7,982
| [I ALMOST LOST BELLE. THE RUNT OF LOLAS FIRST LITTER. I HAD TO FEED HER EVERY COUPLE OF HOURS GOAT MILK WITH A DROPPER...YOU SHOWED SEE THIS GAL..GOOD LUCK AND PLEASE SEND PICSQUOTE=Woogie Man;2282257]Katelin, unfortunately we lost a second girl this morning. She was like a twin in size to the first one we lost and was oh so tiny. My wife took an extra day off work yesterday to help me. I showed her how to feed them and she was going to feed them for their 6 AM feeding while I napped. She got me up because the pup was gasping and in distress. I was surprised at this because she was doing well at her 4 o'clock feeding but I could tell she wouldn't make it and all I could do was comfort her. I did get her to relax and stop gasping and she passed quietly around 8 o'clock. We're terribly upset and completely frazzled but have to maintain for the others. As for the others, we now have 4. Of the 4, 3 of them have 'plumped' and are doing well. Two of those are eating off Mom entirely and we're not supplementing. The third plump girl I'm still supplementing but she doesn't look like she needs it anymore. I may back off on her if she continues to progress. There's still one girl that is doing better but is still very frail. She is eating well when I feed her but still looks a bit dehydrated even though I've been sub-Qing her every 12 hours (1cc) since yesterday. Hopefully, she'll turn the corner but isn't out of the woods yet. For some reason, Bonnie hasn't wanted to eat today but I finally just got her to eat something a while ago. She wouldn't even drink water today until she finally ate. I think she's upset about her babies too. She seems well, no temp or anything and is producing a good amount of milk. I'll keep trying to coax her into eating more now that her gut is going again. I just hope the worst is over and the little one keeps getting stronger. I don't feel 'guilty' but it's impossible to not feel like I've failed with these babies. Experience is not a gentle teacher.[/QUOTE] |
10-14-2008, 04:00 PM | #57 | |
YT 500 Club Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: granite falls n.c
Posts: 557
| Quote:
__________________ Denise | |
10-14-2008, 04:13 PM | #58 |
Donating YT 4000 Club Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Texas
Posts: 7,982
| remember Warm pups....I keeped a heating pad UNDER the whelping box clean towels and warm tummys...feed the baby that may not eat as much in a worm towel while you feed her. Those nipples that you buy did not work for me at first. I used a medicine dropper..then afer 2 weeks I used the nipples...just make sure their tums look full not skinny, If I can do this so can you..... |
10-14-2008, 04:52 PM | #59 |
Donating Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Mississippi
Posts: 2,564
| I posted earlier that I had gotten about 2.5 cc formula in the smallest girl. She handled it fine but at the last feeding she was still kind of full and would only take about 1.5 cc but her belly was nice and tight. Think I'll back off just a hair from the 2.5cc on her next feeding. The other girl is definitely getting a good share of Mom's milk and had a firm tummy but I got 1 cc down her anyway. I'm still giving both the broth. I have the Nutri-drops but for now will stick with the broth instead. I can give them that with every feeding so it's a more continuous source of nutrients it seems. The bigger one that I'm feeding has good spring action on her skin so I'll stop the sub-q on her but the other one still needs it. Her skin seems more elastic and not so thin as before but still doesn't spring back like I'd like it be. Denise, the 1cc every 12 hours for the sub-q is my vet's recommendation but it does seem like they've been slow to re-hydrate. Thanks for the advice. I may up the volume and go a little more often. I have never done it before so have just been following what he said but, given the results I'm seeing, what you say makes sense. Good luck with your little boy. If he's made it to 2 weeks and is gaining, sounds like he'll make it. I do have a heating pad for the babies but the bigger ones seem to stay off it during the day. It's been in the mid 80's here in the day and around 70 at night. When they're off the pad, they're kind of sprawled out and not bunching up together so they're not getting cold. The little one I keep on the pad unless she's nestled in with Mom. Thanks for all the advice, y'all. I'll post again later after a couple more feedings. Jim |
10-14-2008, 05:26 PM | #60 | |
Donating YT 4000 Club Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Texas
Posts: 7,982
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