Dovercastle yorkshire terriers?

[Mardelin]

Originally Posted by yorkieisme

Now here is the question to show breeders, do you still take the "reward" if you sold the dog to a show home, and is it true you are not the one rewarded unless you bred for three generation than you have the right to "brag"? This part I am really confused on.

What is it you mean by reward....are speaking too accomplishment......

The accomplishment of showing and finishing a dog goes to the owner. Onee always acknowledges the breeder.....The breeder after all bred the dog, identified it as show......The true accomplishment goes to the Sire and Dam.
What has been known is that as a breeder a "line" is really not yours for approximately 10 generations.

[Lorraine]

Originally Posted by yorkieisme

Puppymill people are very bright and that is how they are able to get away with most stuff that they do. EVIL is a bad word in my house.
I don't think she really came off as bragging about her accomplishments, I think that was the way she was trying to defend herself, by stating "if I do this how come my dogs are winning in shows". I would find it very hard to put a yorkie in a show coat and throw them in cage when ever they come back from showing.
Now here is the question to show breeders, do you still take the "reward" if you sold the dog to a show home, and is it true you are not the one rewarded unless you bred for three generation than you have the right to "brag"? This part I am really confused on.

Your last paragraph is an excellent question and I would like to respond with my experience of what reputable breeders have taught me over the years and I have come to understand and embrace the concept.
I have been showing and breeding yorkies since 1995 that makes it more than 10 years. In that time, I have not had very many litters and still managed to produce some nice show dogs that I have kept and shown myself to their championship.
In the process, I have won the trust of reputable breeders and have no problem either buy a show dog from them that I can show and finish the championship or if I wish, to buy a finished Champion from them or use their male for stud if I want usually with their direction of which one they have if any that would best match my bitch for the purpose of hopefully improving what I already have.
Now, for the two dogs I have bought from elsewhere, I do not hesitate to give full credit to that breeder and I do not stud either boy to anyone without asking the original breeder first if that is okay giving the name of the breeder. In one case my friend also also contacted the breeder before the fact and got the okay from her.
The resulting litters, one of which so far has produced a very nice bitch puppy, full credit for the sire in my opinion, still goes to the original breeder, not me.
And it goes further. Any puppies these boys produce or if I have used someone else's stud, i would not sell a puppy from that litter with breeding rights without first contacting the breeder that I used their stud or bought the male from them. It goes further than that. Until I have at minimum 75-80% of my kennel name in the first 3 generations of a pedigree, I would still feel obligated to contact the breeders involved in my pedigree before I would stud a male out or sell a puppy for breeding.
Further than that, I do not stud one of my dogs with mostly my kennel name nor sell a puppy on open papers unless the other person is very well known to me and there are contracts which I expect to be followed. If i have any doubt even if it is someone who is a friend, I still will not do it.
So I guess a short answer to your question, no I do not consider i would get any kind of particular accolades for a dog I did not produce. My accolade would be for myself that a reputable show breeder trusts me with their lines and I would do it justice and take pride in that. If I would choose to campaign that dog, ie show it as a specials dog for the year for top toy or top Yorkie, to me, the credit would be to the breeder no me, I did not produce it.
My purpose for buying a dog or using a certain male for stud is purely for the sake of producing even better than what I have, not for accolades for me. i do not see my dogs as something that makes me a great person, I just happen to be lucky enough to have them and have won the trust of great show breeders willing to teach me because I WAS WILLING TO LISTEN TO THEM and am not in this to boost my ego or to make money.
I will never knowingly betray that trust allocated me by reputable show breeders.
And by the way, I have never sold a show dog or one for breeding purposes under any circumstances because i do not want to, I do not breed enough to produce more than what I want for myself and I pick the best the rest go as a wonderful pet to pet homes, and i really feel until I really am producing yorkies with a lot of my own kennel name, I have not EARNED the right to sell show dogs. So be careful of where you are buying your show/breeding dogs, it should be from someone who has been in this longer than 10 years and look at what they have shown and championed themselves of their own kennel name along with the pedigree.
If someone wants a dog from me, I woudl want that they want my kennel name not the well known champion lines kennel names of the dogs behind mine which I see happening so often and that trust given by the well known show breeder has broken down. If you are after a certain kennel name, go to that breeder.

[yorkieisme]

Originally Posted by Mardelin

What is it you mean by reward....are speaking too accomplishment......

The accomplishment of showing and finishing a dog goes to the owner. Onee always acknowledges the breeder.....The breeder after all bred the dog, identified it as show......The true accomplishment goes to the Sire and Dam.
What has been known is that as a breeder a "line" is really not yours for approximately 10 generations.

Sorry for the life of me I could not think of the word accomplishment Thank you.

yes that is what I was asking about. Really for ten years, so that means you have to champion a yorkie out of every litter you have from the first breeding stock. WOW that is a lot to put a seal of approval on a line. Now it makes sense why some show homes are picky about approved show homes only.

[Mardelin]

Originally Posted by yorkieisme

Sorry for the life of me I could not think of the word accomplishment Thank you.

yes that is what I was asking about. Really for ten years, so that means you have to champion a yorkie out of every litter you have from the first breeding stock. WOW that is a lot to put a seal of approval on a line. Now it makes sense why some show homes are picky about approved show homes only.

"10 generations" I'm fairly new to this.....yes, I've championed dogs, however, the accomplishment and acknowledgement goes to my breeder.....she's been doing it for 45 years.......yes, she's taught me well; genetics, breeding, pedigrees, whelping, grooming, handling and so much more. But, what I do know without her blood, sweat and tears I wouldn't have what she entrusted me with.........and even if I do eventually get those 10 generations in my pedigrees.....the honor is all hers.

[Lorraine]

Originally Posted by yorkieisme

Sorry for the life of me I could not think of the word accomplishment Thank you.

yes that is what I was asking about. Really for ten years, so that means you have to champion a yorkie out of every litter you have from the first breeding stock. WOW that is a lot to put a seal of approval on a line. Now it makes sense why some show homes are picky about approved show homes only.

Wishful thinking is a Champion from every litter, it doesn't always work that way especially starting out. Some litters I had nothing I was wanting to keep so sold spay/neuter to pet homes.
<<WOW that is a lot to put a seal of approval on a line. >>
Now that is a mouthful and you are understanding why so many show breeders are so protective of their line. It has been a long haul for me and would be for anyone doing it right. A lot of heartache disappointments costs as well as the good parts went into it.
The worst scenario that has happened to many reputable long time show breeders is that they have trusted someone with their line who turned around and sold or studded to someone who wants a certain line or champions for the sole purpose of selling their wares which in this case, happens to be Yorkies. Not for the purpose of improving what they have only as a sales pitch. I think it is so laughable when i see puppies for sale that are champion sired or champion grandsired, champions in the line. Buying even a pet from a reputable show breeder, it is a given that there will be many champions in that pedigree. I see no reason to even mention it as I would not be doing the breeding unless there were AND based on the quality of the sire and dam.
Remember a breeder can have a litter of say 3 puppies. Each of those puppies has the same pedigree and could be a 'knock your socks off' pedigree. However, only one of those puppies may actually be show quality, the other two not quite what would be good for the show rings so are pet. Some newcomers have fooled a show breeder into thinking they are sincere and their intent was purely to sell based on that well known line. Even worse is when this happens to be someone that is not a show breeder themselves but will not hesitate to advertise they sell show dogs. Based on what knowledge besides none?
If you want a show dog, go to a well established well known show breeder then curse the people that have done injustice to that breeder or other show breeders when you have a lot of trouble convincing that show breeder you are sincere.

[Lorraine]

Originally Posted by Mardelin

"10 generations" I'm fairly new to this.....yes, I've championed dogs, however, the accomplishment and acknowledgement goes to my breeder.....she's been doing it for 45 years.......yes, she's taught me well; genetics, breeding, pedigrees, whelping, grooming, handling and so much more. But, what I do know without her blood, sweat and tears I wouldn't have what she entrusted me with.........and even if I do eventually get those 10 generations in my pedigrees.....the honor is all hers.

And I will always be grateful for those that have laid the foundations for us in our breed.

[yorkieisme]

Originally Posted by Lorraine

Your last paragraph is an excellent question and I would like to respond with my experience of what reputable breeders have taught me over the years and I have come to understand and embrace the concept.
I have been showing and breeding yorkies since 1995 that makes it more than 10 years. In that time, I have not had very many litters and still managed to produce some nice show dogs that I have kept and shown myself to their championship.
In the process, I have won the trust of reputable breeders and have no problem either buy a show dog from them that I can show and finish the championship or if I wish, to buy a finished Champion from them or use their male for stud if I want usually with their direction of which one they have if any that would best match my bitch for the purpose of hopefully improving what I already have.
Now, for the two dogs I have bought from elsewhere, I do not hesitate to give full credit to that breeder and I do not stud either boy to anyone without asking the original breeder first if that is okay giving the name of the breeder. In one case my friend also also contacted the breeder before the fact and got the okay from her.
The resulting litters, one of which so far has produced a very nice bitch puppy, full credit for the sire in my opinion, still goes to the original breeder, not me.
And it goes further. Any puppies these boys produce or if I have used someone else's stud, i would not sell a puppy from that litter with breeding rights without first contacting the breeder that I used their stud or bought the male from them. It goes further than that. Until I have at minimum 75-80% of my kennel name in the first 3 generations of a pedigree, I would still feel obligated to contact the breeders involved in my pedigree before I would stud a male out or sell a puppy for breeding.
Further than that, I do not stud one of my dogs with mostly my kennel name nor sell a puppy on open papers unless the other person is very well known to me and there are contracts which I expect to be followed. If i have any doubt even if it is someone who is a friend, I still will not do it.
So I guess a short answer to your question, no I do not consider i would get any kind of particular accolades for a dog I did not produce. My accolade would be for myself that a reputable show breeder trusts me with their lines and I would do it justice and take pride in that. If I would choose to campaign that dog, ie show it as a specials dog for the year for top toy or top Yorkie, to me, the credit would be to the breeder no me, I did not produce it.
My purpose for buying a dog or using a certain male for stud is purely for the sake of producing even better than what I have, not for accolades for me. i do not see my dogs as something that makes me a great person, I just happen to be lucky enough to have them and have won the trust of great show breeders willing to teach me because I WAS WILLING TO LISTEN TO THEM and am not in this to boost my ego or to make money.
I will never knowingly betray that trust allocated me by reputable show breeders.
And by the way, I have never sold a show dog or one for breeding purposes under any circumstances because i do not want to, I do not breed enough to produce more than what I want for myself and I pick the best the rest go as a wonderful pet to pet homes, and i really feel until I really am producing yorkies with a lot of my own kennel name, I have not EARNED the right to sell show dogs. So be careful of where you are buying your show/breeding dogs, it should be from someone who has been in this longer than 10 years and look at what they have shown and championed themselves of their own kennel name along with the pedigree.
If someone wants a dog from me, I woudl want that they want my kennel name not the well known champion lines kennel names of the dogs behind mine which I see happening so often and that trust given by the well known show breeder has broken down. If you are after a certain kennel name, go to that breeder.

Lorraine great name that is my middle name
Anyway you answered it with so much detail and I thank you for taking the time to explain the true facts on show breeding dogs. great information and I never really knew it took that much work and that much time to get your name on a title. This is all coming together now. Chino's father was Walk the line...and to be honest I saw the father and did not care about anything else and this was after I became a member. I know I didn't make a mistake with him, because he is everything I could ask for and more for me and the breeder was wonderful for us. But it does make sense. I did look up a few yorkies in his pedigree the other day to see what they looked like, and they are BEAUTIFUL, Marlbor and a few more....very nice. It is so hard for a buyer of a pet to think they have to go so far back to get such a lovely addition to your household, you know.

Julie

[Mardelin]

Originally Posted by Lorraine

And I will always be grateful for those that have laid the foundations for us in our breed.

Without those "ole timers" where would we be.....

Gordon Sisters.....without them where would the Yorkshire Terrier breed be today.....Now those 2 really did put alot of blood, sweat, tears and money into the breed. They are who most of us owe homage too.

[Harley_chik]

This post has become very interesting! I've always wondered how some of the top lines end up in puppymills. That Hollybelle woman was able to get her hands on a Maltese bloodline that at one time was the best. I think who has the right to brag is a great question. The miller and BYB are bright enough to use buzz words like "champion bloodline" and "champion sired." I don't agree that "Ribbons mean nothing." I think showing is very important, but I also think temperment and health are just as important.

[Mardelin]

Originally Posted by Harley_chik

This post has become very interesting! I've always wondered how some of the top lines end up in puppymills. That Hollybelle woman was able to get her hands on a Maltese bloodline that at one time was the best. I think who has the right to brag is a great question. The miller and BYB are bright enough to use buzz words like "champion bloodline" and "champion sired." I don't agree that "Ribbons mean nothing." I think showing is very important, but I also think temperment and health are just as important.

In the old days (and I mean 10 years ago) show breeders were very trusting, didn't need to sell dogs with a contract......somehow greed entered into it......and it become more important to some to capitalize on breeding rather than improve it......These people learned how to talk the talk and not walk the walk....

The showing aspect is to gain approval of your breeding stock......this is inclusive of health and temperament.....reputable show breeders know this.

[yorkieisme]

Originally Posted by Mardelin

In the old days (and I mean 10 years ago) show breeders were very trusting, didn't need to sell dogs with a contract......somehow greed entered into it......and it become more important to some to capitalize on breeding rather than improve it......These people learned how to talk the talk and not walk the walk....

The showing aspect is to gain approval of your breeding stock......this is inclusive of health and temperament.....reputable show breeders know this.

Okay guys I was trying to be nosey and look you and Lorraine up and see some of your show yorkies in a better view. You guys don't have a website?

[Mardelin]

Originally Posted by yorkieisme

Okay guys I was trying to be nosey and look you and Lorraine up and see some of your show yorkies in a better view. You guys don't have a website?

I don't believe in them, it's just me.....I will never say never....but, as it stands today I don't have one.

I haven't checked lately but, I think Lorraine still has one.

[Lorraine]

Originally Posted by yorkieisme

Okay guys I was trying to be nosey and look you and Lorraine up and see some of your show yorkies in a better view. You guys don't have a website?

I'll pm mine to you. Powers that be won't let anyone no matter how reputable they are to teach something, never market puppies for sale on my site, post a website link unless I donate and i will never donate to this site.

[yorkieisme]

Originally Posted by Lorraine

I'll pm mine to you. Powers that be won't let anyone no matter how reputable they are to teach something, never market puppies for sale on my site, post a website link unless I donate and i will never donate to this site.

can you explain that a little better, I am so lost about this part. I am looking at your site now...........BEAUTIFUL.

[yorkieisme]

Originally Posted by Mardelin

I don't believe in them, it's just me.....I will never say never....but, as it stands today I don't have one.

I haven't checked lately but, I think Lorraine still has one.

Okay well how do i make that picture bigger so I can see your yorkie. Now is she or he one of your own kennel name?