Breeding for Improvement?

[yorkiekist]

Originally Posted by JeanieK

Yes by breeding some of the off colors back into the line it can improve any or all of the above. show breeder dogs can have health issues also, due to the close line breeding. And it has been discussed on here before that many of the old breeders kept a redleg in their program to improve the coat.

When you are trying to eliminate a gene from a breed, there can be adverse effects.

When any special interest group supports any research the results tend to be skewed. You don't really believe all the ads that these drug companies put out about their research do you?

Over the years standards have been changed. these off colors are part of the general make up of the yorkie and if they were to be eliminated entirely, people might find out that it was not such a good idea. As I pointed out, with other breed standards gone awry.

The YTCA may someday decide that they need to add those colors back in, in an effort to bring the yorkie back to where it is today. When you mess with nature it doesn't always turn out the way you planned.

I dont believe you can improve anything with pet quality and color doesnt improve structure, conformation, etc. Please tell me how color alone can do this. I doubt if the YTCA will want to add any colors that were never there to begin with. Why would they add non standard colors? Human drug company analogies have nothing to do with breeding sound dogs. They are not only "in it" to make money(hand over fist I might add), but hopefully to heal or treat disease, etc in people. And what other "special interest group" would you have do the research and why would they do it? Who better to be involved in the research than the breed club that promotes the breed and knows the breed better than anyone else? I wouldnt have the Saint Bernard breed club, the Skye Terrier club, the Girl Scouts, or FFA doing the research, would you? Just as I wouldnt have the YTCA be involved in the research of Pug Dog Encephalitus. And not all show breeders have tightly line bred dogs. Yes, show breeders have some health issues now and then, but far less than the mill, bybr breeders as they never care what they produce. So that tells me that the linebred and well bred show dogs are actually healthier. What I dont understand is why you seem to have such a chip on your shoulder reguarding the YTCA. You bash them and their members frequently. I would think that you would be happy that this group and its members are footing the bill for health research. I guess it must be that parti thing.

[iLuv Reeses]

Good morning everyone.
I did miss alot in just one day.

Anyway, I really think the breed standard is really essential because it gives the breed its identity. If all breeders have their own standard then in the long run, people of the next generations to come will all be confused to what a yorkie really is and what a yorkie really looks like and it threatens the breed's existence.

Parti-colored/biewers are indeed beautiful. I can't blame those breeders who keep breeding them because the world would be a less wonderful place when they're gone. The white coloring of their coat gives off a joyful radiance and very welcoming to whoever sees one. While the dark steel blue and shaded golden tan color of the standard yorkshire terrier gives a seriously elegant look which captivates anyone who gets to see it. (ok I'm one captivated YOYO) However, coat color is just an aspect of the yorkshire terrier. Even the perfect dark steel blue coat color of a standard yorkshire terrier with unsound structure (which already affects its balance and movement) can be just a pet as its coat color alone will not improve the breed (I agree with yorkiekist). The total dog has to be considered (including the health and temperament of course).

IMO, I think one of the reasons why YTCA (and other YT breed clubs in the world) is really committed in keeping the blue/tan or blue/gold(golden tan) is the history of the breed. It has always been the same color a century back. Breeders have become obsessed in bringing out the true silky texture which gives the breed "type." In the 80's, when there's no dna testing for correct parentage, it was easy to make short-cuts as the pedigrees are registered with "trust policy" and a champion european import produced parti-colored yorkies.
Biewers, on the other hand, are another story. I wonder why Biewers considered another breed of yorkshire terrier and different from American-bred partis. Must be a different source of white coloring gene.
It's really hard to figure out what really happened in the past, was there really parti colored yorkies born before the 80's but just culled? Was there an introduction of a white colored dog? Safest is too keep the blue/tan color and keep out from lines who carry the parti genes.
Because "IF" a late introduction of another breed is true, then it won't be a YT anymore.

[yorkiekist]

Originally Posted by iLuv Reeses

Good morning everyone.
I did miss alot in just one day.

Anyway, I really think the breed standard is really essential because it gives the breed its identity. If all breeders have their own standard then in the long run, people of the next generations to come will all be confused to what a yorkie really is and what a yorkie really looks like and it threatens the breed's existence.

Parti-colored/biewers are indeed beautiful. I can't blame those breeders who keep breeding them because the world would be a less wonderful place when they're gone. The white coloring of their coat gives off a joyful radiance and very welcoming to whoever sees one. While the dark steel blue and shaded golden tan color of the standard yorkshire terrier gives a seriously elegant look which captivates anyone who gets to see it. (ok I'm one captivated YOYO) However, coat color is just an aspect of the yorkshire terrier. Even the perfect dark steel blue coat color of a standard yorkshire terrier with unsound structure (which already affects its balance and movement) can be just a pet as its coat color alone will not improve the breed (I agree with yorkiekist). The total dog has to be considered (including the health and temperament of course).

IMO, I think one of the reasons why YTCA (and other YT breed clubs in the world) is really committed in keeping the blue/tan or blue/gold(golden tan) is the history of the breed. It has always been the same color a century back. Breeders have become obsessed in bringing out the true silky texture which gives the breed "type." In the 80's, when there's no dna testing for correct parentage, it was easy to make short-cuts as the pedigrees are registered with "trust policy" and a champion european import produced parti-colored yorkies.
Biewers, on the other hand, are another story. I wonder why Biewers considered another breed of yorkshire terrier and different from American-bred partis. Must be a different source of white coloring gene.
It's really hard to figure out what really happened in the past, was there really parti colored yorkies born before the 80's but just culled? Was there an introduction of a white colored dog? Safest is too keep the blue/tan color and keep out from lines who carry the parti genes.
Because "IF" a late introduction of another breed is true, then it won't be a YT anymore.

Great thoughts on the YT!! The Biewer has already been determened not 100% Yorkie. they are thinking that the white/parti color came from, possibly the Shih-tzu. If I remembe rcorrectly, this is why they are dropping the YT out of the name and calling them Biewer Terriers.

[Golden Parti]

Originally Posted by Nancy1999

I see no difference between breeding for greater variation colors, and a breeder deciding to breed for greater variation in any other quality such as ear structure. Yorkies are suppose the have small erect ears. However, some breeders would probably prefer if standard were changed to accommodate their own lines. They decide that large floppy ears are just what the Yorkie needs, and with that in mind, they come up with the Dumbo Yorkie, with huge floppy ears, and try to sell it for huge amounts of money because it's rare and unique. They convince other byb's that the Dumbo yorkie is just what their line needs to make more money, and stand out among breeders. They are angry with the YTCA for not allowing them to show their special Dumbo Yorkies, and bad mouth the YTCA every chance they get. They're angry; because others don't show them the respect they feel they deserve and argue that they are improving the breed by bring greater variation and more choices. Some people will fall for it, and others won't. Any breeder who takes a fault and breeds for it, and claims that he is improving the breed is shamefully ignorant.

Wow, I have never seen anybody selling Dumbo Yorkies for huge money...lol Did you just make that up?

[Golden Parti]

Originally Posted by BamaFan121s

Yes, it CANNOT improve the STANDARD because the STANDARD is BLUE/TAN.

But that does not mean you cannot improve the dogs/line....but it would to your own individual determined standard.

HMMM, I thought this post was about improving the breed, not improving the standard. I do not ever want to show a Parti color against a standard color. If they are ever to be shown it would have to be against each other.

[Golden Parti]

Originally Posted by Nancy1999

For those of you who are interested, the YTCA has spent over $84,000, on research, I think they are very much interested in approving the breed. http://yorkiefoundation.org/SupportedGrants.pdf

Holy cow $84,000 for the whole YTCA that is pretty sad if that figure is accurate. I have spent almost half that by myself on my dogs and researching to find out if there really are problems with parti's and Goldens.

[Golden Parti]

Originally Posted by yorkiekist

What I dont understand is why you seem to have such a chip on your shoulder reguarding the YTCA. You bash them and their members frequently. I would think that you would be happy that this group and its members are footing the bill for health research. I guess it must be that parti thing.

I think the problem the Parti breeders have is when websites post misinformation about health issues that they do not have scientific evidence to back. The $84000 that is supposed to be spent on research is a joke. If you take the money that has been spent by two or three of the breeders of parti colored dogs it exceeds this number. By raising these dogs we are indeed doing research to see if they have problems. If I ever find any I will be the first to come on here and tell everyone. So far I have not seen these problems in any greater number in the off colored breeds. I have actually seen fewer problems. Maybe that is because the high price prevents just anybody from breeding them.

[Golden Parti]

[QUOTE=JeanieK;2247594]Yes by breeding some of the off colors back into the line it can improve any or all of the above. show breeder dogs can have health issues also, due to the close line breeding. And it has been discussed on here before that many of the old breeders kept a redleg in their program to improve the coat.
QUOTE]

Hey, I have a redleg yorkie. He is perfect size and shape to standard. I am going to have to do a search on here about this.

[BamaFan121s]

Originally Posted by Golden Parti

HMMM, I thought this post was about improving the breed, not improving the standard.

Yes, and the BREED is defined by it's STANDARD, which at this point does not include Parti Yorkies.

Originally Posted by Golden Parti

Holy cow $84,000 for the whole YTCA that is pretty sad

Compared to who? Have any other organizations attempted to match that or even a fraction of it? I doubt it.

[BamaFan121s]

Originally Posted by Golden Parti

Hey, I have a redleg yorkie. He is perfect size and shape to standard. I am going to have to do a search on here about this.

No offense, but the Yorkie in the picture does not appear to be a 'red leg.'

[Golden Parti]

Originally Posted by BamaFan121s

No offense, but the Yorkie in the picture does not appear to be a 'red leg.'

4 red legs, Oh and he is a Parti Sired Parti Carrier too.

[Golden Parti]

Originally Posted by BamaFan121s

Compared to who? Have any other organizations attempted to match that or even a fraction of it? I doubt it.

I am only one person and I have spent almost half that. So I do not really think that is something to brag about. Now if that had spent millions on their research I might be impressed. Is that $84000 this month? this year? or since the beginning of the YTCA. $84000 these days really doesn't cover very much research.

[BamaFan121s]

Originally Posted by Golden Parti

I am only one person and I have spent almost half that.

You have spent half of that on your own breeding stock. How on Earth do you figure that equates to an organization that has raised money for research? You have spent money essentially on stock to benefit your own program--that is not at all comprable to a breed club raising money to benefit research and promotion of the breed.

Originally Posted by Golden Parti

4 red legs, Oh and he is a Parti Sired Parti Carrier too.

Like I said, the dog in the picture is not a "red leg".

[Golden Parti]

Originally Posted by BamaFan121s

Like I said, the dog in the picture is not a "red leg".

Where can I find a picture of a redleg? So I can see what exactly you are calling a redleg.

[BamaFan121s]

Originally Posted by Golden Parti

Where can I find a picture of a redleg? So I can see what exactly you are calling a redleg.

Search here on YT--there have been several threads in the past that discussed them, some with pictures, I believe.