I Am Thinking Of Breeding
 

I was thinking of breeding my coco but I have a question. She is is PERFECT health and has good lineage but she has an underbite. Some have told me that this makes her not able to breed. That because of her underbite this is a defect and she shouldn't be bred. I just wanted to ask about this because I am puzzled as to why her teeth would have anything to do with the health of her puppies :confused: She is very healthy and was the only pup in her litter with the underbite.

The underbite is a genetic trait that will be passed down to pups and makes her a poor candidate for breeding. Some pups may present an even worse bite than the dam which would affect their general health. See the thread posted below on being a responsible breeder, it's a great resource.

An underbite is a hereditary trait. Most good breeders breed to better the breed. They try to eliminate all bad traits to improve good breeding lines. I would not breed this female. I had bought and sold within a week a pup that had an underbite. It's just no good. Do your research first.

Sounds like you really care about your pet and that is how it should be. These babies are to be loved and cared for as our families do. BUT, that unfortunately does not make them good candidates for breeding. And, The possibility of having difficulties that could result in harm, sometimes severe, to your family pet. You would never forgive yourself if you decided to breed her and she lost her life or the puppies died. I personally would not take that chance..

But I don't understand how an underbite would make her lose her life or give her complications? She is healthy otherwise. I have had her throughly checked by more than one vet. I guess I need to do some more research becaue I don't see the correlation in bad health and an undebite to me that is just cosmetic.

for you it's just cosmetic reasons. Personally, I would never buy a pup from someone who the mom to the pup had obvious faults. I know that sounds ugly, but there are a lot of people that think and feel this way. I know, two perfect dogs can have an imperfect pup but when you see a parent with a fault, it weighs heavy on a potential buyer's mind. JMHO

I guess her underbite is so slight you have to open her mouth to see it. When I purchsed her the breeder dropped the price on her because of it but if she would have never said anything I would have never noticed.

I did not even mention the underbite. My post was to point out the dangers when breeding a family pet. Yes, we who breed responsibily keep our Yorkies in our homes and consider them pets as well as for breeding. And, granted, there are risks with breeding any female no matter how many tests we do, how much we research and how careful we are in the selection process of the stud. We have not necessarily accepted that but we know it can and has happened and that is why we try to do our very best to prevent problems before we decide to breed the dam and sires of our choice. We also have worked very hard to learn all that we can before putting the first 2 dogs together to make puppies.
In this case, the underbite is another consideration that you cannot do anything about other than not perpetuate the fault by breeding her. You can always start your breeding at a later date.

Even if it is slight , she can passe it to the pups .

I totally understand you question. But the Yorkie is supposed to be a specific way and we have a standard to follow. The standard calls for a scissor bite. If we start compromising and breeding some of the traits that are not in the standard aka cosmetic faults. After time it can take away from the original appearence of what a true Yorkie should look like. I've seen some underbites that are severe and noticable and really take away from the elegant appreance the Yorkie should have. The pups can come out with severe underbites, sometimes if can hinder the way they eat. There are ways to improve faults in breeding but underbites are a fault that is extrememly difficult to correct. I don't know this from experience but from my vet who is a reproduction specialist. Before he explained it to me, I didn't understand what a bite had to do with anything.

Yorkie hugs,
Irene :aimeeyork

Her bite can make it difficult for her in the birthing process to open a sack- to move a puppy - to lick a puppy- to cut an umbilical cord- with the result being dead puppies. You might think well I will take care of all the above and nature has a way of pulling a fast one on you and she goes into labor and delivers with you not there to assist.

The bite is very improtant- I did rescue a while back for a older gal who had a horrible bite- it was difficult for her to eat and drink because of such a differance in the length of the bottom and upper jaw. At least 2 1/2 inches- I had never seen such a mess in my life and hope that I do not again. I understood how her forever family came to the decision that it was in her best interest to put her down. It was a struggle to help her eat and drink. I was lucky that I placed her but it took me 7 months to find the right home who was willing to work with her special needs.

The bite does matter. I wonder how many generations of bad bites had been bred to produce this mess. I will never know. I just wanted to cry for her- there was nothing I could do for her- but find her a home. This family paid $2,000.00 for this gal 3 years ago . She has a baby that should never have been sold- her parents are still being bred.

We are going to have to agree to disagree on this one. I can't imagine that anyone, especially a well intentioned breeder would hope to have a yorkie with an underbite. If it's a preference, get a bulldog. Even show quality dogs produce plenty of pet quality pups. Shouldn't purebred breeders aim for excellence?

I see your point. Like you said agree to disagree.

Without offending no one . When someone have his or her mind set on breeding , there is no much that another one can do .

As my mentor told me once " There are several Yorkies in this world but it is rare to find real quality ones " .

I have to say that I agree with Kathy, a bad bite causes problems. One of my Yorkies has an overbite. She requires a dental every year. It's terrifying to me, to have her put under every year. Still, at age 6, she lost two teeth, due to this overbite. That is a pretty young age to lose teeth, when I've been religious about taking care of her teeth.
Just some food for thought.

Sheila

bites
 

I do not keep breeding stock with bad bites, that is my preference..but having said that..IMO breeding a dog with a bad bite is no different then breeding one with a soft coat or oversized. It is a fault..pick the fault you can live with, since our Yorkies all have faults in the bloodlines.

There are degrees of a bad bit..slight to severe...I would breed a good quality bitch, of good temperment and a good pedigree with a slightly off bite...as opposed to breeding an oversized bitch or one who was shy/bashful. Jaws are a different fault..if it is badly undershot..No, I would not breed her.

This is true. When I ask a question I am seeking truth, not just an answer I want to hear. If someone only wants approval then why do they ask at all?
I apparently offend people all the time. I should be more tactful, but I am not.

The thing I don't understand is when people decide they're going to breed, why do they think that they should just breed whatever they have at hand? Just because it has a uterus, does not mean it was intended to be bred. Plain and simple. The ONLY reason to breed is to help better the breed. If you can't do that with the pairing you have, then you shouldn't breed them. To better the breed, you must take in consideration what faults your animal has and if those faults are not able to be fixed with a breeding, then either get another animal that can be bred without messing up the genes, or decide not to breed at all. You have to look at your animal as a breeding tool...not as a pet, in order to assess it correctly with an unbiased eye. It's hard to do this, but it's necessary. Cottony coats, ear set, conformation, etc can be corrected for the most part thru selective breeding, however I for one, do not believe that an overbite/underbite is something I want to be messing with when it comes to breeding. Cottony coats, ear set and conformation are not things that will affect the animals ability to survive...the bite is. JMHO!

Not everyone agrees with the same "standard". The AKC or YTCA "standard" is not the pet yorkie or companion yorkie fancier's "standard". We care more about temperament and personality than outward appearance. We sometimes like floppy ears and short snouts and smaller than the YTCA standard, etc.

There is nothing wrong with a companion dog "standard" being different from a "show dog" standard.

The yorkie is not going anywhere so the argument that hobbyists will "hurt" the breed is really not a valid one unless the show breeders stop breeding.

I never said that show breeders "don't care about temperament or personality" (please do not put words in my mouth) and I haven't talked to any show breeders that "haven't given a crap about temperament" as you put it, but the YTCA "standard" focuses mostly on outward appearance as do the judges in the ring. This is a well known fact.

There is no written "companion dog standard" that I am aware of. My point is merely that a pet fancier's idea of a breed standard is different from person to person. I like baby doll faces big eyed small eared tiny yorkies for instance. I also like unusually colored yorkies like my princess Chai and Julz' Mercedes and Maverick and none of them are show breed standard. We are all differnent and zi have never seen two yorkies that looked exactly alike.

The standard goes right out the window when you're talking about a flaw that affects the animal's ability to carry on life 'normally'. I don't know of any "standard" that would accept a life altering fault as breeding worthy.

If a dog has a "life altering" (in a negative rather than positive way) fault then I would agree it shouldn't be bred, but who decides what is life altering?

Oh come on. Ear set is NOT a life altering trait, it's not going to affect how the dog hears. Coat texture is NOT a life altering trait, it's not going to affect anything but how the dog looks. An overbite or an underbite IS a life altering trait, it's possibly going to affect the way the dog eats and drinks for its entire life. I'm not making up any kind of definition of life-altering here...it's common sense. It doesn't have to be written or agreed to. Life altering is something that alters life, be it quality or quantity.

bite
 

I would like to see a photo of the bitches bite if possible. How old is she? I have talked to novices who think a scissor bite is an overbite. I realize there is no mistaking an underbite.
Charlotte had an underbite until 5 months..I had her puppy teeth pulled and her adult bite is correct..she has not passed it on to her 8 puppies.

So many people want to breed their pet female...99% do it once and never again..and like Oliver said, most can not be talked out of it, so I save my breath.

Are you asking for a picture of MY dog? In a picture you are not able to see it. Hers is very slight. I have to open her mouth for it to be seen. I also didn't mean to turn this into a huge debate. I see some are passionate abou this. Most people that buy dogs IMO buy to have for a pet not as a show dog. I am still undecided as to whether I will breed her or not. This thread has given me some more insight as to the pros and cons. The fact that neither of cocos parents have an underbite and she was the only one in the litter that had one leads me to believe it was just a "freak accident". She has no problems eating or chewing and her vet has even told me its not serious. So I believe the chances of her passing this on to her pups are slim but I am aware it can happen and I doubt if it does it will be worse than hers. I am happy to know that there is someone out there that has bred a Yorkie with an underbite and has had successful litters without it.

Just my opinion with no offenses of any kind :

When a person buys a Yorkie , it should stay that way . If a breeder placed puppies as companions only , the buyers should respect this fact . I admit there are cute Yorkies in this world but cute is not enough to have a female bred or have a male at stud . I know a few breeders around here that don't write neutering or spaying contracts anymore but they choose to have their pups spayed and neutered before selling them and I truly think that it is a very good choice .

I have so many things to say in response to your statements I don't know where to begin. Personal preference can be applied to any trait a dog may have, but please not with what makes a dog a dog. Please don't mess with the basics. Bites, number of teeth, etc. relate to the survival and health of the animal. Bad bites come from breeders who don't think it's that important. Being careless with such things is inexcusable. Ignorance may be an excuse, but blatant disregard for a disqualifying fault is negligent.

Please keep your personal preference to things like color, hair texture and quality, head type, etc. I'd rather die than breed a dog with a bad topline, but I'd do that long before I'd breed a dog with a bad bite.

Breeders breed to a standard to preserve breed type. To keep a Yorkie looking and acting like a Yorkie. Disqualifying faults are those faults that are so bad they should never be bred. Bad bites are disqualifying faults.

Just because you have no problem selling pups doesn't mean you're doing it right. Every puppy born deserves a loving home whether their bite is perfect or not.

I don't want to make you mad, either, but I hope I can make you think about what you're doing. The only things that should distinguish a show dog from a pet are things like size, coat, etc. We should all be striving to breed perfect bites whether we're breeding for the show ring or family pets.

CJ