The fact that neither of cocos parents have an underbite and she was the only one in the litter that had one leads me to believe it was just a "freak accident".

The underbite probably came from the "grandparents". I would not breed this dog either. She could pass it on to the litter. Yes, it probably doesn't look bad and some may think it is cute. But, if eating and drinking is a problem, that is heartbreaking. You pass the puppies on to new owners that don't realize there will be a problem and they have to find out later and deal with it. Every time I hear of people having to deal with problems, taking their pets to the vet and putting out all this money for something that could have been prevented by the breeder, it just burns my a**. I've been there. :mad:

Bad Teeth
 

I can't speak for other breeder only for myself- but with the dedication to this breed - any pup that would have a under bite would never leave my home with out a s/n contract and I would determine who was throwing this trait my dam or sire and they would be s/n as well- this is such a in justice- then why not breed anything???? to what ever???? To me this is just bad breeding???? Why do the rest of us breeders go through pain staking and costly experience to bring out the best breed yorkies we can while others have no dedication. It is not whether it is someones preference it is what is best for the breed and there should be no question on what to do in this case. Then why not breed bad patella's or liver shunt, cotton coats and the list can go on, to me it is all the same. All of this is unexceptable. If you want to breed, breed with knowledge of the standard. Sorry if I hurt anyones feelings here, that isn't my intentions at all. Don't ever settle for breeding pet quality, even if you aren't breeding for show quality at least breed to the standard. :)

bite
 

It is not a freak thing, it is a recessive thing. Recessive genes can skip generations and will show up when bred to another dog who is also recessive for that gene. If you breed your girl, look for a male without the recessive gene.

We had a thread recently and the posted had photo's of the dogs bite..it was not good and she asked for opinions..that is what I meant by a photo..

This is a good lesson for breeders who place pets and want them to stay pets..I give no papers until the pup is spayed/neutered if places for a pet. A simple solution for me.

People point out some breeds such as the Bull Dog that have natural undershot jaws..but they have large strong teeth that do not fall out as a result of the poor bite..tooth loss is the most common bad bite consequence. Yorkies are so prone to early tooth loss..compounding it with a bad bite is a double wammy for them.

Yorkiegold...yes, yes, yes, ...a bad topline is the worst for me. If you can not balance a teacup/saucer on the back for get it! LOL

This is in agreement with Pat but something for everyone to think about. Don't all yorkies have the same ancestors? Therefore, if all yorkies have the same ancestors and the same lines then all yorkies carry faults in their bloodlines. No one can fully eliminate all bad, recessive traits from the lines. They originated with these faults. We can try and try hard but somewhere generations back, they faults can be found. To me, this explains why for years, 2 perfect yorkies that have had successful pups will suddenly throw a bad pup. JMHO

true
 

This is true up to a point. Many breeders have bred away from these types of faults through selective breeding. Of course, when you breed out to eliminate one fault you can also open the line up to new faults you did not have.
Some breeders stick to a select few lines and once establishing a foundation they pretty much stay with breeders who have good bites..but nothing is 100%.
How often the bad bite shows up would be important to me also..one pup in 20 or one in 3..big difference.

We have several members who have been able to get a a nice pup from a show breeder due to the bite being off a bit.

How many have seen a true undershot/overshot jaw..they are so different then a slight underbite...I would spay a bitch who had even one severe bite problem...but not a slight underbite...anyway, so many bites under correct..over rarely correct, they get worse as the adult teeth come in..opposite with under.
I do not know the age of the Yorkie we are discussing.

How old is Coco ? Do you have a picture of her ?

I just have a question.. Do you have experience breeding?? If not, why do you want to breed her?? People are telling me I should breed Lily Mae because of her temperment and personality but i feel since I have no experience breeding and because I want to keep her as my family pet, i said no way... I just think the risks are way too high... i hope I am not offending you, I just was courious to know why you would want to breed your baby.. If you decide to do it, please do plenty of reseach and really make sure you know what you are doing, as i would not want you to lose your baby

subtracting genetic problems, the three t's are an absolute MUST in my breeding program...

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Temperment

all other faults can easily be corrected in ones breeding program the above can not!!! IMHO

A lady gave me a dog with it had had a broken jaw andI asked my mentor if she could tell if he had a ubderbite even seen he had abrokenjaw and she said most of the time! She said he had a underbite! the vet said he had a underbite! So I gave him away! No breeding!Mentor said it takes a long time to breed that out if ever! This boy had been use for breeding! So please think about breeding her! lily

Ahhh, yes.... and I would add...."Quality is in the eye of the beholder".

Who doesn't think their yorkie is "real quality"?

When I was searchihg for Ava I found a show breeder who was selling a puppy with an underbite. She told me it was "slight". Before I drove quite a distance to see the pup, I called several vets to see what their opinion were on underbites in small breeds and I asked several other breeders and they all said a "slight" overbite" does not affect quality of life and they can eat just fine and all. A "severe" underbite however can be a very serious problem. I also researched on the internet.

It broke my heart when I went to see this puppy because I had my heart set on her from her pictures but when I opened her mouth, the underbite was very noticeable and the breeder said "it had gotten worse" so needless to say, I did not get the puppy. She did sell the puppy for $2400 to someone else.

I would say if the underbite is so severe as to be "life altering" then I would not breed her, but if it is as "slight" as you say and you can find a male without the recessive gene, and you are producing purely pet quality yorkies, and she is "perfect" in all other areas, then I think it would not be irresponsible to breed her if you have a mentor and a good vet. JMHO

why breed a fault ??? slight or not it is still a fault that can become more pronounce!

Kim never said you shouldnt have an opinion but to promote someone to intentionally breed a fault is NOT good advice!

All dogs have "faults". There is no "perfect dog".

I do not consider yorkies a "hobby". These are my furbabies!

I refuse to get into the "Chocolate debate" with you again but just so everyone knows, chocolate in any amount is harmful to yorkies.

I do not feel a need to defend my ability to practice law to you, except to say that I am well respected in the legal community.

as far as the chocolate chip thing, I think that admin said it very well..

"While small amounts of chocolate most likely will not kill your Yorkie, giving your Yorkie any chocolate is an unnecessary risk in our opinion. If your Yorkie shows any odd signs or behavior, take your Yorkie to the vet immediately. For peace of mind, you may also take them to the vet anyways or call your vet if they ingest any. YorkieTalk would never condone giving a Yorkie (or any dog) chocolate, but that decision is ultimately up to you and you may choose to do what you wish with your pet."

But, like I stated before, I would not breed a bitch with a bad bite, or bad back, or bad tempermant.

We keep going back to the same old sack of bones. I want to breed my dog- come hell or high water. I do not care what the results are- it is my God given right. Yep you are right. It is your right. Go right ahead and breed LP's
Bad bites and liver shunts go the gambit. Can you can lay your head down an night and be proud of what you have done.

When there is a problem with the puppy you knowingly breed and her grandchildren two generations later or more have severe problems you can hold your head up high and say Yes that was my contribution to the breed. I am so proud of what heartache I have caused to the offspring and to the owners of these dogs.

There are posts on this forum daily where the breeder gets blamed for the problems that a person had medically, physically and emotionally with a dog that they purchased every day. Some are legit some are a pile of horse manure.


People who state I am not wanting to show so that I don't have to follow the standard are just making excuses. Some of us have made the comment that the perfect dog does not exist- that is being thown around as a catch all to make it ok for your bad judgement. Some of you would not know a quality YT if it bit you on the ankle. If you are not part of the solution you are part of the problem. Should you be listed as a bad breeder on the bad breeder sites because you know what you are doing is wrong in breeding dogs that have faults that cause a health issue. If I am tweeking color/coat texture
size of the ears- or wanting a get out and go show attitude in my breeding program I am not causing any health issues. I can go to sleep at night and not worry have I done if I have done the right thing.

Coco just turned 9 months old. Here is a picture of her. This is when she had her first heat. So she has her jean diaper on. :)

No I do not have experience breeding but like everyone else I have to start somewhere. I have done a lot of research and before I even make a decision I am going to do PLENTY of more research before I subject my baby to this. I would not go into this blindly or take it lightly if this is what I decided to do. I have spoken to more than one vet that has said they did not see a problem with her being bred and I have asked a TON of questions. I have also been told by others that she would be good to breed because of her temperment. She is the sweetest most friendly dog and catches on to everything very quickly. I had NO problems training her at all as I know some say the breed is hard to train and from reading on here and meeting people with yorkies there are some that have 2 year olds that are still not trained. She is playful and is not afraid of strangers or other dogs

As a Yorkie owner, I want to say "thank you" to the reputable breeders in this forum that continue to try to explain to all these "breeder wannabes" the importance of breeding to the standard. There is a standard for a reason. If you don't like the Yorkie standard, don't breed. Period.

Personally, I have bought each of my Yorkies from reputable breeders, that strive to breed to the standard. No, my Yorkies are not perfect, but they are beautiful and more importantly, they're healthy, thanks to their breeders.

I think, there are an awful lot of Yorkies in rescue, because people look at the pictures of the Yorkie, and when the dog doesn't measure up, they're disappointed. If you want a quality Yorkie, you have to go to a quality breeder.

I applaud the breeders in this forum that continue to "try" to educate us.

I don't breed. It's hard work, lots of education, research, and bucket loads of tears. (and extremely expensive!!!)

We set a high bar for breeders. We expect so much of them, but when they try to help us, we criticize. Not fair.

These are living beings that are being brought into the world. Does anyone really want to risk a health defect, just to breed their pet, once?

One of my Yorkies is show quality. The owner of her sire tried to convince me to breed her years ago. I declined because I just didn't feel I had enough knowledge. I was afraid to risk her or her babies.

I've had Yorkies for over 25 years, and I still continue to learn.

I hope the breeders in this forum won't give up on us.

Sheila

P.S. Kathy, my dad used to say (many) years ago, when I was growing up, "If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem." You brought back some fond memories in your post. :)

[QUOTE=feminvstr]
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Teeth
Temperment...

There's more to a good yorkie besides tempermant. Kim listed only 3. I wouldn't breed just because my yorkie was friendly with everyone.

I just want to say, Coco is BEAUTIFUL!! She is precious!! I also want to commend you for doing all of your research before attempting to breed.. I hope I didn't start controversey but I just wanted to make sure.. In my eyes, you seem like you really care about your baby and want her to be happy... Good luck with whatever you decide to do

The one and only "reason" the YTCA breed standard exists is for people who care about showing. The "standard" calls for docked tails which I find cruel. The standard says they have to be black and tan or some variation thereof,.... I have a parti-color yorkie who came from "standard" parents and she no less of a yorkie than those that are the "standard" color. Breeders used to "cull" perfectly healthy puppies for being the wrong color according to the standard. For me that is wrong. The YTCA kicked Terri Schumsky out of the organization. The YTCA does not allow its members to be members of "pet" forums and they shun "pet" owners and anyone who is trying to gwt into breeding or showing and on and on and on.

I do not believe that anyone on here was condoning or advocating "breeding anything to anything" and not attempting to eliminate the genetic defects and other health characterisitics that it is possible to control. There are plenty of reputable breeders who do not hold strictly to the standard....they may not dock tails, they may breed parti colors or chocolates or they may like the short short snout, but that does not make them bad or in any way inferior to YTCA breeders. This is my only point.

This member has a female with a very "slight" underbite and her vet has advised her that it would be okay for her to breed her to produce pet yorkies. He or she obviouly does not feel the "fault" is a life altering one. Where is the crime?

just some of my personal experince
 

People in this area know that i have breed Ta for years and call on me to help them Whelp a 11 yo boy called me about 5 months ago he breed his stud who was out of my lines to a girl dog with a crooked tooth slight set up bited with out consulting me 3 puppies had to be rushed to the vet that day to be put down.... if you can do this take the chance that the two gene pools your pulling from have mouth "bite flaws" some under bites are so extreem that the puppie has to be put down and if some are minor there should be a spay nut contract with them the more you breed the falut the more chances of puppies being put to sleep .. i know this sounds like a huge maby but im crying while writing this and that little boy is scard for a long time the bitch was fixed as soon as possible so this horror never happend again

Why do peoples asked questions if they already know the answers ?

Think about it this way. Coco has a slight underbite. The breeder gets a male or studs out. You don't exactly know what the stud dog has in his lines. Could be that his great grandfather had a slight underbite. Coco has her litter and maybe the litter will be fine or maybe she'll produce a pup that has an underbite that is so bad the pup will never be able to live a healthy life. As someone mentioned earlier, the bite won't get better, it will only get worse with generation after generation.

There is a breeder here in town that has bred her bitch with a slight underbite and I would never buy a pup from her. It is an obvious fault and cannot improve only get worse.

If you are committed to becoming a yorkshire breeder I am sure there are many people on this forum who will be more than glad to help you locate a suitable female that is a good example of the standard. I would be happy to do what ever I can to help in any way.

What does that mean?

This is not an "extreme" case. This is very slight as the owner stated. I would never think anyone on here would breed a dog with a severe or extreme bite problem.

My hypothetical included only a situation where she bred to a male who did not have the recessive gene for underbite in his DNA. I would never breed the dog under the circumstances you just outlined. That would be too risky.

To learn from the differing viewpoints hopefully.

[QUOTE=SoCalyorkiLvr]The one and only "reason" the YTCA breed standard exists is for people who care about showing. QUOTE]

Oh, I'm afraid that's not quite true. The standard for any purebred dog exists as a definition of what characteristics that breed of dog exemplifies. It is not just a 'club' description and not just for people who care about showing. It is what it is.