Limited Registration Concerns

[BamaFan121s]

Originally Posted by mohawkmalli

I think that once you purchase a pup that it is yours to do what you will with it and if you want to breed it yes you should educate yourself but to me a breeder may see it that if you breed the puppy you bought then that is money out of their pocket....but this is just my opinion.

Meaning the breeder has no concern for what happens with the dog after it leaves their home? Is THAT a quality you'd actually WANT a breeder to have?
Sure, many WILL educate themselves and do right by the dog...but what about those who don't? How else can a breeder protect the dog and the breed in general?

I respect your opinion as I do everyone's, but I have to agree with Pat on this one. If you spend decades perfecting your lines, all it takes is one breeding of a good dog to a poor one to produce a bad representation with who knows what genetic defects...and the 30+ year dedicated breeders name is stuck to that for all eternity.

[C C Kent]

This is a great thread, kudos to the OP.

I have respect for those who have gone before me and achieved what I hope to achieve. I'm fully prepared to meet the high standards expected of me to own the best blood. I'll treat it as a labor of love and pay respect to those who entrusted it to me. Eventually I'll find worthy hands to leave it in.

[hasrv4fun]

Originally Posted by YorkieRose

When you say the dog is yours to do as you please..that is not quite accurate..my name is forever printed on those AKC papers...one generation of improper breeding wrecks 35 yrs of hard work and can damage my reputation..the country is full of breeders who do not care if you breed their stock, so I advise buyers to buy from them.

Thanks for saving me from typing all that

[nudiva37]

Originally Posted by Woogie Man

Interesting discussion. And with every region of the country having its own alternative registry with no possibility of limited registration, it only makes the mindset harder to break. AKC could make limited the default registration for any pup unless specified by the breeder. That could take some pressure off breeders having to explain themselves to every potential owner. I doubt you'll see this, though, as they would see this as hurting the bottom line. The one thing about limited registration, though, is that it's reversible by the breeder. Maybe if this were explained to potential owners that it COULD be reversed at the breeder's request, it may make the idea more palatable to some and get them thinking about preserving the lines. Or.....and this is a crazy idea, how about an alternative registry that is tighter than AKC on its registration requirements. Two things that come to mind would be limited registration as the default registration with full registration only given at the breeder's request and then only after proof of appropriate health screenings were done. Maybe AKC could have some kind of 'preferred' registration. You kill two birds with one stone that way. You protect the lines and you make for a healthier breed. Now that's what I call betterment of the breed.

[yorkieisme]

[QUOTE=erickajm;2143426]Okay...lord, help me word this right so that my head is still intact after it is read....



I honestly think your average potential yorkie owner isn't going to be able to afford a dog from a person who shows...Let's face it, we all think our puppies are cute...but people who show do as well and many have ribbons & trophies and such confirming it. But I am also discovering that there are tons of people that really don't care if they are registered...they just want a yorkie....I think I will leave that one alone for now.


I am one of those people. When I get one his papers I could care less about. I might be wrong, but his registration papers does not make him but his pedigree does. I would like to see his pedigree, and could care less for AKC registration. Prices are high on yorkies, I have had e-mails from $500 -$2500 breeders there are some I wouldn't give a $100 for and they have them at $1000. To me it is a shame that the Yorkie name is what puts a high price on some of these babies.

To someone stating about the weigh, I am one of those people that does ask My reason are I want the standard, 4 lbs- 7 lbs. I do not want a 15 lb yorkie, if I paid top dollar for a yorkie I would atleast want the standard. People do breed their 8 to 10 lb female with a smaller male and then state all puppies will be under 5 lbs. This shocks me everytime I see this. Sometimes you do find a breeder that cares and its not about making money its about making the breed better. I feel there are a lot of them on YT.


BTW this is a interesting topic

[nudiva37]

Very interesting topic.

[Dreamer74]

I find that a lot of older people have never heard of such a thing, because it has not always been common. I am concerned that there are lots of people breeding dogs with limited registrations and selling them for close to 1000.00 and people actual buy them. I realize that not everyone feels the need to have a registered dog, but they should question buying from a pup from registered dog whose pups they can not register.

[yorkieisme]

Originally Posted by Dreamer74

I find that a lot of older people have never heard of such a thing, because it has not always been common. I am concerned that there are lots of people breeding dogs with limited registrations and selling them for close to 1000.00 and people actual buy them. I realize that not everyone feels the need to have a registered dog, but they should question buying from a pup from registered dog whose pups they can not register.

I haven't ran across a breeder that does not register their puppies, I have read a few that state "to keep the prices down they will not register this litter". And charge a high price, the price doesn't scare me, but the reason does. I do wonder about that one, since AKC does inspect after 6-7 litters per year.

If I did get one with papers I would never send them in, waste of money for me. I just want to see their pedigree and I do have to have knowledge on him being registered or able to be.

[erickajm]

Originally Posted by YorkieRose

When you say the dog is yours to do as you please..that is not quite accurate..my name is forever printed on those AKC papers...one generation of improper breeding wrecks 35 yrs of hard work and can damage my reputation..the country is full of breeders who do not care if you breed their stock, so I advise buyers to buy from them.

Excellent point!

[erickajm]

Originally Posted by yorkieisme

I haven't ran across a breeder that does not register their puppies, I have read a few that state "to keep the prices down they will not register this litter". And charge a high price, the price doesn't scare me, but the reason does. I do wonder about that one, since AKC does inspect after 6-7 litters per year.

If I did get one with papers I would never send them in, waste of money for me. I just want to see their pedigree and I do have to have knowledge on him being registered or able to be.

There are many people who also don't register because they too think it is a waste of money....I think in the end, the only true way to protect your lines and such is to have all puppies fixed before they go to new homes..otherwise people will breed them regardless, slap them with the aca or equiv. and sell them for as much as you are...and with the same description...97% of people don't know the difference between AKC, ACA, APRI....so its neither here nor there to them. They don't care if they have champion bloodlines or ch sired..they just want the yorkie that is going to make them money. I work with a gal that has this mentality...she wanted one of my yorkies so bad..so she could breed...I told her no, they weren't available and by the week's end she bought two s**t zoos (Hee hee). She just had her first litter...she also has Mastiffs and told me she wanted to go with Yorkies but she just couldn't afford it then...she wanted me to go in with her and build a kennel (on our land of course) so we could make lots of money.!!!!! That is (sorry to say) the mentality of most people who decide to "breed". Its just like another get rich scheme...they think because Yorkies are a popular breed that all they have to do is buy two and BAM we are in the money...and in the end...they are going to make some because they are mass producing and selling to more uneducated people that don't understand the difference between what they bought and what they should have bought...Yeah...that's my chapter for the day.

[yorkieisme]

Originally Posted by erickajm

[/COLOR]

There are many people who also don't register because they too think it is a waste of money....I think in the end, the only true way to protect your lines and such is to have all puppies fixed before they go to new homes..otherwise people will breed them regardless, slap them with the aca or equiv. and sell them for as much as you are...and with the same description...97% of people don't know the difference between AKC, ACA, APRI....so its neither here nor there to them. They don't care if they have champion bloodlines or ch sired..they just want the yorkie that is going to make them money. I work with a gal that has this mentality...she wanted one of my yorkies so bad..so she could breed...I told her no, they weren't available and by the week's end she bought two s**t zoos (Hee hee). She just had her first litter...she also has Mastiffs and told me she wanted to go with Yorkies but she just couldn't afford it then...she wanted me to go in with her and build a kennel (on our land of course) so we could make lots of money.!!!!! That is (sorry to say) the mentality of most people who decide to "breed". Its just like another get rich scheme...they think because Yorkies are a popular breed that all they have to do is buy two and BAM we are in the money...and in the end...they are going to make some because they are mass producing and selling to more uneducated people that don't understand the difference between what they bought and what they should have bought...Yeah...that's my chapter for the day.

I would have to disagree with this. I am not interested in breeding yorkies and never will be. I am aware of the difference of AKC , CKC, APRI etc. to know I prefer to stay within AKC guidelines. I have stated plenty of times AKC standards for me. I do not want to show, breed, or sale a yorkie now or anytime within my life time. I have also stated pedigree does matter to me. So I did not fall off the truck yesterday

Yeah maybe breeders should neuter/spay the pets before leaving their homes.
Heck you think at $800-2500 a pet price it will already be done, but its not so in the long run I will have to spend more money in doing this so why should I spend another $25.00 for a piece of paper that states he is Registered. When I already know that he is.

[wildcard]

Selling on a limited registration is just one thing a breeder can do to prevent someone from breeding a puppy that is not breeding quality-- if the new owner does not care about AKC registration for the puppies (thus the existence of the Central Kennel Club etc.) he or she can still breed the dog and sell its offspring. The only real way to be sure that a dog you sell will not be bred is to spay or neuter it before it leaves home. I am not in favor of early spay/neuter so I would need to keep my puppies through their maturity before they could be placed. I breed papillons (have one yorkie now though : ), and I greatly prefer performance (agility or obedience) homes, and those homes prefer younger puppies generally and usually only have a handful of dogs and no interest in breeding. Luckily the majority of my "puppy people" are long time friends from these sports and have great dog ownership track records so there is less I need to do insofar as immediate background checking. I do require references, including from the individual's veterinarian, before selling a puppy, esp. to someone I do not have a long standing relationship with. In addition, I have a very good puppy sales contract (and my buyers know I will enforce it-- I am a lawyer LOL). To me, background screening is so much more important than the type of registration that is given (although I do only give limited registration because if they are going to breed it there is no reason for full registration). I do have in my contract that if they want me to reevaluate the dog as show potential as it gets older they have that option and we might shift the registration to full, but so far no one has wanted to do that as they tend to want to spay/neuter as young adults because it makes performance events somewhat easier to train for and a heck of a lot easier to plan to attend if you don't have a bitch coming into season LOL.

[BamaFan121s]

wildcard---

A good example of how the breeder has to take steps to prevent the pups being bred and not trust it won't be done just because they marked the papers as limited.

I understand wanting to protect your 'name' and 'line' which you achieve with selling on limited. But it doesn't protect the dog itself (which is a concern as well) if they decide to register it elsewhere.

[wildcard]

Misty-

Right, limited registration only deals with AKC registration. I have been EXTREMELY fortunate in that my puppies have been in demand from people who dedicate their "dog lives" to obedience, agility, rally, etc. and for the most part they are not interested in breeding. Most of these people have been getting dogs previously from good breeders (because they understand the importance of structure and temperment) and know the ropes of spay/neuter contacts and limited registration long before they come to me for a puppy. Definitely a difference between breeds because you see so many more paps in those sports than yorkies, and I have been involved in those sports for over 10 years myself so I have a lot of friends/contacts that way. If I were to breed yorkies (probably not going to happen) I would be dealing with more pure pet people that would not necessarily have a lot of experience in purebred dogs. It would be a lot harder to screen I would think, and harder to explain the spay/neuter obligation.

If I can't learn enough and confirm enough about a home to know that they will honor a spay/neuter contract, then I am not apt to put a puppy in that home anyway. How would I know it would be cared for properly insofar as diet, vet care, etc if the owner was not even going to adhere to a contract they signed agreeing not to breed the dog? I wouldn't place an already spayed/neutered dog with someone who won't follow clear, fair terms of a written legal agreement. If the day comes that I feel like things have come to that point, no more breeding for me, that would be my only solution.

[yorkieisme]

Originally Posted by BamaFan121s

wildcard---

A good example of how the breeder has to take steps to prevent the pups being bred and not trust it won't be done just because they marked the papers as limited.

I understand wanting to protect your 'name' and 'line' which you achieve with selling on limited. But it doesn't protect the dog itself (which is a concern as well) if they decide to register it elsewhere.

This is the reason why I will not buy CKC, APRI etc. because they bought the puppy as pet only then turned around and bred it when it states not to sometimes there are reasons why a puppy is considered a pet and not breeder/show.
One site does state her female is AKC (Limited) but her puppies are CKC, APRI. So of course that makes me believe that she bought the female because it was cheaper. I personally do not look all over the site if I notice anything other then AKC. SO breeders out there please spay/neuter your babies prior to sell, it would save money and heartache for the pet owner if he/she dies during the spay/neuter, and your "lines" that some of you state you work so hard at keeping.