Behaviorist tells me to neuter my boy...

[leucothea]

Last night I called a Behaviorist in my area to get a consult on Ceasar as he has been very territorial towards my youngest girl. I told him I was going to be showing him, etc., but he just bluntly told me to have him neutered without even seeing him or anything. What do you guys all make of that? Is he really beyond help? I already have him separated from my two girls. During the day he is in the little bathroom with his bed and water, etc. and at night he has to stay in a crate in the bedroom because if she moves toward me or he perceives anything he just attacks. He is not that way with my other female.

I am at my wits end and hate to see my dreams go down the tubes because of one blunt Behaviorist, but if that is the consensus I will have to.

Does anyone have any thoughts on this situation?

I promise my feelings won't be hurt. They were already dashed last night.

Thanks in advance!

[Susan123]

Gosh, it doesn't sound like he has much of a life in the bathroom and crate all the time (I'm sure you get him out for play and such). I understand why, you're protecting the others. I don't think a dog with a bad temperment should be bred. It might be best if you had him neutered and see if his behavior changes. If not you may need to rehome him and get another male. I haven't had any males act in aggressively. So I don't have any advice on whether or not he'll change. There may be a heat cycle factor coming up in one of the girls that he's favoring, I don't know. I'll let other who've experienced that help you there.

I hope it is a phase or something. And than it's not his nature. Do you think it's just how he is?

[Oscar's Mummy]

Can you find another behaviorist in your area? It seems strange to me that he/she would just write the case off and recommend what to do without even seeing the dog in person??

I would try someone else, and if they recommend having him fixed, then maybe you can consider it. Dont' let this one person determine what you do — to me their opinion just is not valid without having seen the dog.

My only concern is that it sounds like he spends a lot of time alone — either in the bathroom during the day or his crate at night. That would piss me off too, lol.

Did you have Cesar before your new little girl? If she came into the picture and you started doting on her and your attention toward him became less (which is natural to happen with a new puppy in the house), then that could be why he is becoming more aggressive towards her. He sees her as a threat and is literally fighting for your attention/love. If all the sudden she comes in the house and now he's having to live in the bathroom and his crate all day, I think that might be why he's having behavior problems. This is just a guess though, because I don't know your whole story. I don't think any dog is a 'lost cause', I'm sure something can be done.

Good luck!

[leucothea]

Here's some more info. Cleo the 5 month old (the subject of the aggression) came first, then Ceasar (the 6 month old male), then Princess (18 month old female and recently had a heat). I have not favored any of them over the other. It is when I pay attention to him that he gets awful with Cleo. He never gets that way with Princess.

Up to yesterday, they were all together except when Princess was in heat. I literally have to stay in the kitchen when they are all together. I don't get involved unless it gets ugly. In fact they were all tearing around the house playing great last night and then in the middle of the night when Cleo made a move toward me on the bed he attacked her. He started out on the bed and then went in the crate. Then he whined and I put him back up until it happened again and then he spent the rest of the night in the crate.

I work full time and I could not get anything done at work worrying about them if they were all together when I was not home. I go home for lunch to let them out and play with them. I am home every night with them as well.

He was a little shy when I got him, but got along with Cleo from the start.

I refuse to give up on him...He is part of my family. If I have to neuter him, then I will, but then that's not even a guarantee he will chill if it's in his nature.

This is all so disconcerting....thanks guys for your input!

[bjh]

Nancy, when he attacks her is he actually biting her or his he just trying to dominate her? I have one male that likes to jump on female puppies to show his dominance when they get too rowdy but he would never hurt one. I have never had a male that would hurt a female. Now I have had females that would fight each other and males that would fight each other. It there anywhere around you where you can get them out together and take them for walks? It sounds like he has some jealousy going on and maybe some buildup frustrations due to lack of exercise. I really feel that as the puppy get older he will be more willing to accept her. If he is attacking her and he is out for blood then that is an entirely different story. I know a lady that had a very aggressive male and on several different occasions he killed some young female pups that were around 4 or 5 months old. They finally wised up and rehomed him. You must use caution and if you think he will harm the little girl then please do not put them together.

[leucothea]

Thanks for the input.

I take them for a 15-20 minute walk each night down to the ocean to tire them out. They run around the living room in the evening like banshees and get along too. I do training with them in the evening, i.e. sit, down, etc.

It seems to me he is out to hurt her. He gets her on the floor and just goes to town and she cries. She has always been outgoing, but now seems to be very wary when he is around and when he attacked her last night she went on the back step and shivered. I can see him posturing and getting this still, but sneaky look about him and then all at once he charges.

This morning when he did it, when I lifted him up away from her he had ahold of her and when I lifted they both came 6 inches off the ground so he had pretty good hold of her. He has to stay in the bathroom with the gate across while I am at work, I would worry so...He has a nice soft bed and water, so he is quite comfortable and the two girls are in the kitchen in their enclosure.

My poor little babies. There will be no casualties in my house. I am very involved with them, but I don't like to isolate him if it causes more problems.

[Epsilon]

Wow, I'm really sorry about this. I would be so worried.

When you break up the fight do you do anything to him? Or do you just put him in a crate/bathroom/etc? When my mini schnauzer would play a little too rough or be dominating to my yorkie, we would not only break it up, but we would dominate HER. We would put her on her back, grab her beard, and look her in the eyes with our face really close to her face. We would look at her very sternly and would not look away until she did first. We wanted it to be very clear that she was NOT a boss in the house. We were the only bosses and she had no business dominating anyone. Probably until she was 1 yr old we would have what my husband calls RAD's (random acts of domination) where would would do this randomly as a way to show OUR dominance. A Petco trainer told us to do this. It worked.

OH, and definitely get a second opinion!! She may just be some anti-breeding person.

[leucothea]

I did "put him down" on the floor a few times yesterday, but haven't tried the "glaring". That sounds like something to try. I tell him a stern "no", and separate him from the pack, but would never get physical. Maybe I don't sound convincing enough to him?

[TeddyandTiffy]

Originally Posted by leucothea

Last night I called a Behaviorist in my area to get a consult on Ceasar as he has been very territorial towards my youngest girl. I told him I was going to be showing him, etc., but he just bluntly told me to have him neutered without even seeing him or anything. What do you guys all make of that? Is he really beyond help? I already have him separated from my two girls. During the day he is in the little bathroom with his bed and water, etc. and at night he has to stay in a crate in the bedroom because if she moves toward me or he perceives anything he just attacks. He is not that way with my other female.

I am at my wits end and hate to see my dreams go down the tubes because of one blunt Behaviorist, but if that is the consensus I will have to.

Does anyone have any thoughts on this situation?

I promise my feelings won't be hurt. They were already dashed last night.

Thanks in advance!

Is your girls your talking about Yorkies???

Is any of them in Heat???

Do you have any other male Yorkies in your home or is it just females and your one male Yorkie?

What does your females do when he acts this way toward them...Can you tell more about how he acts toward them??? Is he pinning them on the ground or just growling or biting???

Do your girls kinda lead him on to get him into trouble??? I know my Sofie is this way lol, she'll get them going and stand back like what did I do...Not saying your babies do this just trying to find out more to help.

I have 5 Yorkies in my Regular pack...3 Gals and 2 Males. My Galahad didn't really get hateful with my Teddy until we adopted Sage who is from another line and my girls started coming into heat. Galahads hatefulness started with Teddy over them sharing their food...So I had to separate them so they could eat alone, then the gals coming into their 1st heats, had to be separate again.

I didn't allow my girls in the same room as my males for a long long time and now my Boys are together in one LONG Playpen and getting along great...I have 1 bowl of water and 2 food bowls and now can feed them in each bowl without him getting hateful with Teddy and he doesn't hog all the food. My 3 gals are in our Yorkie Room as I have Weezie who is yet to go into her 1st heat.

I wouldn't give up on your little guy...I would work with him alone...This is what I'm having to do with Galahad...Firm but gentle at the same time. Galahad I have to say is calming his hatefulness down a lot. He is 2 years old now. I understand you having to keep him away from your other babies, it is hard and you do feel guilty but sometimes it's for the best. There's nothing wrong with having to seperate them, as sometimes it could save a life of a Yorkie.

I hope some of this will help you in some way. Lee

[TeddyandTiffy]

Originally Posted by bjh

Nancy, when he attacks her is he actually biting her or his he just trying to dominate her? I have one male that likes to jump on female puppies to show his dominance when they get too rowdy but he would never hurt one. I have never had a male that would hurt a female. Now I have had females that would fight each other and males that would fight each other. It there anywhere around you where you can get them out together and take them for walks? It sounds like he has some jealousy going on and maybe some buildup frustrations due to lack of exercise. I really feel that as the puppy get older he will be more willing to accept her. If he is attacking her and he is out for blood then that is an entirely different story. I know a lady that had a very aggressive male and on several different occasions he killed some young female pups that were around 4 or 5 months old. They finally wised up and rehomed him. You must use caution and if you think he will harm the little girl then please do not put them together.

You give such good advise Barbara!! You teach me something new everyday! Hugs Lee

[TeddyandTiffy]

Originally Posted by leucothea

I did "put him down" on the floor a few times yesterday, but haven't tried the "glaring". That sounds like something to try. I tell him a stern "no", and separate him from the pack, but would never get physical. Maybe I don't sound convincing enough to him?

Sometimes we owners bring this on ourselves (Not saying you do) but I know Galahad was my own home bred and me not knowing how to raise a Yorkies properly I brought his behavior problems on myself as I played TOO rough with him as a puppy...

I would wrestle with him, play tug with is bone with him, I didn't take him out in the REAL world like I should have...Now I'm paying for my mistakes...I can't blame him or be mean to him as I myself have created my little mans attitude.

With this being said he is young...I would not give up on him yet...I feel he is jealous of your other babies...Or as Barbara has said trying to be dominate over the pack...

That's where you come in...With gentle but firm guidance, don't be hateful in any way with him...Be stern...You are the one to so to speak to form/mold his attitude and the way he behaves...You are his teacher...As this I've learned don't allow ANY unwanted behavior to go any farther...Put a stop to it right then and there....

I do sometimes take Galahad as his OWN mother DID to him as a puppy...Take my fingers and put a gentle bite/pinch on the side of his neck NOT choking him at all, just a little pinch so to speak...when in any action I don't want.

Do you ever watch Cesar "The Dog Whisper"??? This is how he does all his dogs he trains with behavior problems...It works if DONE right...You MUST NOT HURT him/them...

Use the sound Cesar uses "SHHHHHHHH" (Spelling there) sound to stop the fights that is if you can do it loud enough to get their attention....Or CLAP your hands real loud....Or take a POP CAN and put a few coins in it when you see them fighting shake the pop can and they "SHOULD" all stop fighting and look at you like your crazy...The thing to remember is you MUST get him to calm down, to not get ANYMORE excited in his behavior....To redirect his attention to something else.

I have Cesars books and videos and they do help in a pack of Yorkies...I hope you can understand what I'm saying about redirecting his attention and correcting him right with out being mean, just be firm...Take a deep breath before you correct him...He will sense and feel your fear when you are correcting him so you don't want this...Always try to be CALM yourself when CORRECTING them...Hope some of this may help you. Lee

[leucothea]

I love you guys!

Ceasar is putting Cleo on the floor, but not Princess as she is the one who just went out of heat. He has really become taken with Princess. Cleo is a month younger than Ceasar.

I love Cesar Milan...just had one of his books from the library when all this began. I always have Animal Planet on and watch anything on dog behavior I can.

Now, I do remember Ceasar's breeder saying that his father was very dominant over him and fought with him constantly. When I met Ceasar he was very timid as were his two sisters. I should have seen the red flag then, but I fell in love with him.

I do believe the way Cesar Milan works is the way to go with "the Pack". I am going to try to be the leader in a more decisive way. I must say that lunch time was quiet when they were all out together. When Ceasar was around Cleo I could see his wheels turning, but then he got a little shivery all over like he was trying to behave himself and it was killing him, so maybe he is getting the message. I only have the one male and two females and I hate him having to be by himself.

Cleo is non AKC, so I am thinking of spaying her. I don't want her to go into heat either, or do I. I know his attention will change once she does. The only trick will be keeping him off of her as it will be her first heat.

[leucothea]

oh and I forgot to say that I have never played rough with them, but my fiance has and also played them one against the other....kissing one and letting the other see him gush over them. This started actually when he would get them in high gear playing rough now that I think of it. Good thing he is away for a few weeks, maybe I can turn things around. I already told him back then that it was inappropriate, but he is as stubborn as a yorkie sometimes...LOL


Actually it is not funny because I have to deal with the repurcussions

[TeddyandTiffy]

Originally Posted by leucothea

I love you guys!

Ceasar is putting Cleo on the floor, but not Princess as she is the one who just went out of heat. He has really become taken with Princess. Cleo is a month younger than Ceasar.

I love Cesar Milan...just had one of his books from the library when all this began. I always have Animal Planet on and watch anything on dog behavior I can.

Now, I do remember Ceasar's breeder saying that his father was very dominant over him and fought with him constantly. When I met Ceasar he was very timid as were his two sisters. I should have seen the red flag then, but I fell in love with him.

I do believe the way Cesar Milan works is the way to go with "the Pack". I am going to try to be the leader in a more decisive way. I must say that lunch time was quiet when they were all out together. When Ceasar was around Cleo I could see his wheels turning, but then he got a little shivery all over like he was trying to behave himself and it was killing him, so maybe he is getting the message. I only have the one male and two females and I hate him having to be by himself.

Cleo is non AKC, so I am thinking of spaying her. I don't want her to go into heat either, or do I. I know his attention will change once she does. The only trick will be keeping him off of her as it will be her first heat.

We can't live on regrets or the past all we can do it go forward and try to do different. Just try to be loving yet firm with him.

As of now I would be glad he is alone as far as other males...He would more then likely fight with another male and if your thinking about getting another male I'd wait until I got him under control or you may have a lot more trouble.

If it was me I would go ahead and get Cleo spayed...I would talk to my Vet about it...U think he's bad now just wait till she comes into heat. How old is Cleo???

To be honest with you...You probably couldn't keep him off her if she goes into heat with out them being in separate room with the door closed. I'd also watch your gate if he is bound and determined to be with a female he will JUMP that gate. Hope some of this will help you. Lee

[leucothea]

Originally Posted by TeddyandTiffy

We can't live on regrets or the past all we can do it go forward and try to do different. Just try to be loving yet firm with him.

As of now I would be glad he is alone as far as other males...He would more then likely fight with another male and if your thinking about getting another male I'd wait until I got him under control or you may have a lot more trouble.

If it was me I would go ahead and get Cleo spayed...I would talk to my Vet about it...U think he's bad now just wait till she comes into heat. How old is Cleo???

To be honest with you...You probably couldn't keep him off her if she goes into heat with out them being in separate room with the door closed. I'd also watch your gate if he is bound and determined to be with a female he will JUMP that gate. Hope some of this will help you. Lee

Cleo is 5 months and I am planning to get her fixed sooner rather than later. I wasn't planning on getting another male initially unless Ceasar is determined to be unsuitable for breeding. I was planning to put Princess and he together, but I want to make sure he doesn't have a screw loose or I will have to find a suitable stud for Princess before fall. Princess has champions in her first three generations.