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03-16-2008, 09:12 AM | #16 |
Donating YT 5000 Club Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Southeast Texas
Posts: 7,959
| I had hear that Dr. Tobias quit doing her research because breeders were not coming forward with problems in their lines. I also heard that the rumor about the 'one' dog link was a bunch of hooey and they just could not make any connection. I heard the dogs name but it was one I had never heard of and I can't even remember the name now. I wonder if liver shunt is really increasing or it is just that the awareness of it is increasing. I would like to hear from breeders that have been breeding for 15 to 25 years and get their feelings on this subject. Are they seeing increased numbers or it is just an occasional miss matched breeding that occurs. More Yorkies are being bred than ever before so you will be hearing of more incidences of liver shunt but are they proportionally larger? Before the internet and forums existed there was just no way to really know what was happening and no way to connect the dots. I pray we will one day have some answers but in the mean time I think it is wise to get blood panels done on your dogs before you breed them. |
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03-16-2008, 10:06 AM | #17 |
Donating Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Mississippi
Posts: 2,564
| It seems like there are enough members here at YorkieTalk to conduct an informal survey to see the incidence of LS among their dogs. Only problem is that most breeders (who would be the ones you would most want to hear from) might be reluctant to be forthcoming. Among owners though, it would be interesting to see the rate of occurence and whether it is higher among line-bred or open-pedigree dogs and also the rate among dogs of various sizes. Would posting such a thread be improper? I realize this wouldn't be a controlled, scientific survey but anecdotal evidence may be as good as we'll get on this subject. |
03-16-2008, 10:53 AM | #18 | |
Donating YT 5000 Club Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Southeast Texas
Posts: 7,959
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You could try doing a posting in the general forum and you might get some response but I just really don't think you will get enough information for you to make any conclusions. I think liver shunt is a genetic defect that can pop up at any time in any line. There is just so much more focus on liver shunt because of the studies that have been going on but people have to realize there are a lot if different hereditary defects that can be passed on to offspring. The people that do these studies get government grants and they get lots of money donated to their causes so they will do everything they can to keep their causes in the limelight. Probably the ones that would really know if there is an increased number of liver shunts would be the veterinarians. To bad there is not a central data base that vets can use to report the number of cases they are treating. Hopefully some day we will have answers. | |
03-16-2008, 12:22 PM | #19 |
Yorkie Yakker Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: ME
Posts: 61
| MANY show breeders have it There are A LOT more show breeders having LS dogs than you think!!!!!! Because of my research, I have met a TON of people who got their dogs from "high quality" well known show breeders. Actually, no one in my personal group of support got their dogs from back yard breeders. It isn't always the breeders fault but some breeders get scared and dont' always do the right thing to prevent further problems. I've been doing a lot of reserach and talking with a lot of people and you would be surprised at what I am finding out and what is covered up. |
03-16-2008, 01:07 PM | #20 |
YT 3000 Club Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: HOT, HOT, HOT AZ
Posts: 3,150
| I think that because of the responsible show breeders that LS is coming to the fore front. This is not to suggest that they are causing more incidents of LS. If it werent for these wonderful breeders, research on LS would never have gotten started. I know the mills and byb's wouldnt foot the bill for this! They would just keep on breeding and not caring what they are producing.It seems to me that LS is in most of the bloodlines and not just one or two. So why are the show breeders pedigrees more previlent (it seems) to have LS? Because they are almost the only ones doing the testing and research. Its not the byb and mill pedigrees being tested. JMO |
03-16-2008, 01:19 PM | #21 |
Donating YT 2000 Club Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: us
Posts: 2,255
| I tend to agree with Yorkiekist!! Show breeders are taking steps to prevent LS by having tests and research done. Most byb's don't bother therefore it seems only show breeders are afflicted. Last edited by baby03; 03-16-2008 at 01:20 PM. |
03-16-2008, 01:38 PM | #22 |
Donating YT 5000 Club Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Southeast Texas
Posts: 7,959
| I agree too with Yorkiekist but I really think the problem is not that the BYB and hobby breeders don't care but they are not educated enough about breeding. If it was not for forums like YT and liver shunt groups then most people would not know that much about liver shunt or LP. Many new breeders don't start educating themselves until after they have bought their dogs and bred them and then they come here for a crash course in delivering puppies. I was looking through my few books I have on Yorkies and I cannot find one reference to liver shunt or genetic testing. Now some of these are older books from the 1990's. In current books on Yorkies do they tell people about liver shunts and genetic testing? To be honest I really just started hearing about these things the last few years. We just have to keep trying to educate breeders the best we can. |
03-16-2008, 02:56 PM | #23 | |
YT 3000 Club Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: HOT, HOT, HOT AZ
Posts: 3,150
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03-16-2008, 03:45 PM | #24 | |
Donating YT 5000 Club Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Southeast Texas
Posts: 7,959
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03-16-2008, 04:07 PM | #25 | |
No Longer a Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: California
Posts: 127
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Of course, bile acid testing is still important to identify carriers and aid in research and, or course, to identify shunt puppies so you don't sell them to the unsuspecting public. I really don't believe this is an unsuspecting pet buyer's burden to bear. They never even heard of liver shunt before and they believe by going to a "show breeder" they are buying a beautiful healthy puppy -- that's all they want. But breeders know very well about this problem and should bile acid test any puppy before they make it some poor family's nightmare. My soap box is getting slippery.... | |
03-16-2008, 04:26 PM | #26 | |
Donating YT 5000 Club Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Southeast Texas
Posts: 7,959
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03-17-2008, 05:18 AM | #27 |
BANNED! Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: salem nh
Posts: 81
| spay/neuter agreements [QUOTE=bjh;1853569]So what do you do if you have been breeding for years and then suddenly a liver shunt puppy shows up? The sire that produced the liver shunt puppy may already have many offspring on the ground being used in ... I never sell puppies without spay/neuter contracts, and the AKC papers don't go out until I have proof of compliance...I know hwere my puppies are and that none are being used in cheap breeding programs... |
03-17-2008, 05:23 AM | #28 | |
Yorkie Yakker Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: ME
Posts: 61
| [quote=dudley1984;1854681] Quote:
Unfortunatly, it is the only thing you really can do and then you can say to potential buyers "yes, I had a confirmed case of LS but I spayed and neutered the parents and siblings to try and stop it from happening again." Start a new clean line. This is what I was told by veterinarians. | |
03-17-2008, 05:23 AM | #29 |
Donating YT 5000 Club Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Southeast Texas
Posts: 7,959
| I was referring more to those show breeders that sell to other show breeders and giving breeding rights under contract. |
03-17-2008, 05:25 AM | #30 | |
Yorkie Yakker Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: ME
Posts: 61
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