Sire & Dam of litter have same Sire?

[feminvstr]

I think many pet buyers rush to judgement though when they hear linebreeding or inbred, there are many sound reasons a seasoned breeder would do this.

My mother started when the big rage was a tea cup poodle!
she felt the tinier the better, so she bred mother to son and sister to brother. She got what she wanted some very sound tiny little poodles, but with almost every litter there was one that wasnt right emotional.

I recall an adorable little black we named her "tiki" she was a product of brother to sister, she was slow to develope as she got closer to one year old you could tell that she was mentally slow as well, soon after turn one we started to see her walk into walls, like she didnt even notice they were their and she wasnt blind. Poor thing degraded from there and was finally put down just before her 2nd birthday. She didnt grow more than the palm of your hand!

[LvMyYorki]

For someone like me that will never breed or show, but wanted a beautiful Yorkie that was bred for the standard, I really looked at the pedigree of my little girl when I picked her out and it was the neatest thing to talk with Bunny's breeder abt the linebreeding... when I was on the phone with her and asked her she didnt hesitate for a second she knew exactly why that dog had been pulled as a stud for that specific mating and in this case they were looking for a perfect topline which this male had. She explained that the pairs are so cafefully planned in her breeding program that they know exactly who they are going to bring in for a specific trait... I think I'm starting to babble, but I just wanted to share that... I love my linbred little girl.. she has her Poppa's topline and her mom's disposition!

[lovefor3yorkies]

Originally Posted by LvMyYorki

I'm not a breeder so take my opinion for whatever its worth, but I think it would be one thing if someone just changed their mind for no reason, but that is not the case here. No one would expect that their puppy has been inbred. Yorkville has done her homework by asking for the pedigrees and that is how she found out about the breeding practices. She has not said an unkind word about this breeder, simply that she doesnt want a pup from such close breeding. I think that is extremely responsible of her. I am not trying to take sides, but I can tell you I researched pedigrees on my second Yorkie, but I didnt have a clue on my first. I thank my lucky stars that I just got lucky on the first go around. Besides Yorkies are sooo popular that I would think that it wouldnt be a problem placing pups that are bred to standard.

No, I wasn't referring to this situation and completely beleive not only should you get your money back also should tell her that she needs to imform people (buyers) of this prior to placing a deposit. I have bones to pick with people that just jump at the site of a picture.
I also purshased my first yorkie blindly. I HAD NO CLUE. All I knew was I wanted her BUT after doing what I should've done the first time, I made my second purchase with a careful, choosey, researched, almost cocky attitude with what I expected from my breeder before, during, and after the purchase. I am sorry if I came off like an attack dog. =) Please remember these are typed words and cannot portray feeling accuratley. I think you are doing more than most with this first purshase and I applaud you for that.
I am sure you can understand the frustration of the buying process from a breeding perspective. When you qo through all the right steps to "qualify" a buyer and feel comfortable placing with them, they put the money down, and either have buyers guilt OR find a better deal on a much LOWER quality dog, and want their money back is the issues I have with deposit refunds. I am not nor ever will be one of those breeders who will place a dog in ANY home with the cash. I know many do but when I take the time to go through my process, I expect to place a pup in a forever home. But if someone falls on hard times or feels like I have withheld information (which this breeder did, good or bad) I WILL offer a refund. I have never had a litter but will sometime soon. I have very established veiws and a "process" in place. You get my drift or did I just confuse the beeejee bee's out of you? =)
Good luck with your other breeder and keep us updated. =)

[topknot]

I totally agree with Lovefor3yorkies. When a breeder or someone is selling their puppies/puppy they should be totally honest and upfront. It is people that don't that give us others a bad name and so we have to be very aware of this and be very open to buyers. We should be willing to answer any of their questions and give them as much information as possible up front even the ones they don't know to ask, so they can make a right decision. I pesonally would never/ever breed brother to sister or any kind of in-breeding. You will usually have a/some/all really weird pups - mentally or physically. If there are any bad faults they will show up two fold. She has tightly inbreed this pup. But why? What did she get? How are all the others? Did she know what she was doing? It sounds like she may be a backyard breeder only had what she had and wanted pups or could have accidently got together. What ever the reason, she is responsible for this litter of pups.
T.

[feminvstr]

I found this interesting..

The making of Yorkies or Yorkshire Terriers has been long disputed, and will most likely never be completely resolved. Most of the early breeders in England were illiterates, therefore the earliest breedings were not recorded.

Following are the three breeds (Clysdale Terrier, Scotish Terrier,Paisley Terrier) that are given the most credit for the weaving of the Yorkshire Terrier, and are not disbuted for being part of their history. They are mentioned in a number of documents in their country of origin, which is England. Theories have also included the Waterside Terrier, and Skye.

"the beginning of a yorkshire terrier all done with inbreding"

The Father of Yorkshire Terriers
Hudderfield Ben
Hudderfield Ben has always been given the honor as being the "Father of the Breed". If you look at Ben's Pedigree below, you will notice that he was the result of in-breeding. Lady is not only his Dam, but also his Grand Dam. You should also note that Lady was produced by a mother/son breeding.

[LvMyYorki]

Originally Posted by feminvstr

I found this interesting..

The making of Yorkies or Yorkshire Terriers has been long disputed, and will most likely never be completely resolved. Most of the early breeders in England were illiterates, therefore the earliest breedings were not recorded.

Following are the three breeds (Clysdale Terrier, Scotish Terrier,Paisley Terrier) that are given the most credit for the weaving of the Yorkshire Terrier, and are not disbuted for being part of their history. They are mentioned in a number of documents in their country of origin, which is England. Theories have also included the Waterside Terrier, and Skye.

"the beginning of a yorkshire terrier all done with inbreding"

The Father of Yorkshire Terriers
Hudderfield Ben
Hudderfield Ben has always been given the honor as being the "Father of the Breed". If you look at Ben's Pedigree below, you will notice that he was the result of in-breeding. Lady is not only his Dam, but also his Grand Dam. You should also note that Lady was produced by a mother/son breeding.

Kimberly- It is very interesting!!! I have fallen so in love with these breed and wanted to learn all about the origin, so I bought the book by Joan Gordon, "The New Complete Yorkshire Terrier". This is the best book on yorkies EVER!!! Joan Gordon and her sister, Jane Bennett of Wildweir Kennels are said to have done more for the breed in the US than any other kennel. Their kennel has the all time top producing sire in the history of the breed! You would really love this book!

[feminvstr]

I have the same book

I think many breeders here on YT do!

[LvMyYorki]

I should have known!!!

I'll never breed, but I honestly think that this should be a "breeding 101" required read bc I really think that after you read you have a true appreciation for the standard. SOOOOOO much has gone into the standard and you just think to yourself (I did).. why would anyone want to breed unless they were truly going to better the breed? I know there are people that just want a litter or to breed their Yorkie once, but I am talking about a life dedicated to breeding Yorkies. Also I think breeders should read this simply bc it goes into the standard in depth! It was really confusing in a couple of parts, so I had to go back and re-read, but overall I just think its fascinating! I love how their purpose of being a ratter is still totally evident today in the temperments and instincts... I don't think you would be able to keep this in their "genes" for so long if it werent for responsible and careful breeders pulling the best sires and dams together to produce the best possible puppies. I was playing with mine this morning and I watch how they dig and put their little faces down to the ground like they are just going for a little vermin! Its precious!!! One thing for sure is that if you didnt appreciate all of the decades and years to hard to work to produce the standard before you read this, you will after you are finished!

[YorkieRose]

Kimberly...I absolutely agree...what has turned me of to inbreeding is the vets.
I had a stud client sell a litter of 5 girls..4 stayed in my area, one went to NJ. This girl developed allergies so bad. The vet asks to see the pedigree, they wanted to rule out a genetic component.
These two parents were unrelated, I told the stud client and she relayed it to the vet..we faxed a pedigree. Vet was satsified..but I do suspect my stud client would be returning monies if there has been a close breeding.
It wasn't the last time either. Suddenly, I got several puppy buyers who spoke to their vets before hand about questions to ask the breeder...Great, they were doing homework. Vets wanted pedigrees.

I have not done any close inbreeding for about 10 yrs since I had a problem with inbreeding Rothby, I got liver shunt. I LOVE Rothby, but I never breed back into it with any Rothby.

I hate to see an innocent breeder blamed for every problem a dog develops..we know it isn't all our fault. In fact the NJ Yorkie with allergies was found to have a neurotic owner who had stressed it dog out..vet sent me a letter. If that dog had been inbreed the vet would have stopped looking for the problem I fear.
Best wishes

[YorkieRose]

Another thought...the English breeders were and still are not soft hearted, they quickly put down any thing not up to snuff in the beginning. Only the best were used for breeding. I see breeders keeping ones that used to be culled as breeders and selling others for pets.

[feminvstr]

Pat I remember a recent poster incensed once she found out she had bought an inbred puppy. The vet pointed it out (I believe from her vet check) she went on and on what a bad breeder this person was that she purchased her baby from. Many (uneducated in toy breed) vets are quick to blame the breeder for anything they can and more often than not a puppy has died because of the vet not understanding the special needs of a toy breed than the hands of its breeder.

I have gone through 5 vet clinics since I moved back to portland, I had the best vet in So Cal, when I cried he cried, he called all the time and was truly concerned with any pet that entered his office. I am envious you've finally found your perfect vet. I like mine now but do I love him NOPE, do I trust him, most of the time do I trust his associates NOT AT ALL, does he dote on my babies like my past vet hell no!

For the record I have never inbred or linebred, but I have to say if I felt that I would acheive what I thought was a sound perfect breeding I wouldnt rule it out! I go by the old saying "never say never"