AGAIN- Pitbulls attack yorkies

[Britster]

Originally Posted by DBlain

I will say it again, I hate pit balls and am glad my town has an ordinance against them, if I see one in the neighborhood I will report it. I could care less that some are nice and gentle, they are living breathing accidents waiting to happen. With all the dog breeds in the world there are plenty of other breeds for people that like that type of a dog to choose from, so I have to say this is one breed that we can do without.

That is just plain ignorance. Okay, so once all the Pit Bulls are gone, all those people who have "plenty of other breeds" to choose from, let's see what breed we can ruin next? If there was no Pits in the world anymore, the world would NOT be a better place, because people would simply choose another breed to destroy and ruin. So now let's destroy all the Rotties and the Shepherds and everything else, until we can get down to ... hmmmm ... maybe dogs without any teeth? How about a stuffed animal, and all dogs be abolished? Because all animals can attack, unprovoked or provoked, and usually people are idiots and say "oh my dog was always happy and friendly" but 99% of people have NO idea how to read a dogs body language.

So yes people are responsible. It's ignorant to think otherwise. It's not even about pits, or whatever, in specific. I am not a fan of Pits, as in they wouldn't be a breed I would seek out, nor would I own with a small dog (personally). Their potential to be dog aggressive is as high as a Yorkies potential to want to kill a mouse. It's a risk you take. Some Yorkies could probably care less about going underground and hunting a rabbit, but others would kill for it. DA in Pits is something that responsible people understand is a possibility. Responsible Pit owners, for example, do not bring their dog into a dog park. Because no matter whose fault it is, the Pit will get blamed.

So okay yeah let's hate one breed of dog, just so that humans can destroy another. And another after that. And another. Until one day your realize it affects you, and how you feel is your dog, your baby, your family member was declared dangerous simply for being a terrier, or by the way it looks, and destroyed and taken away from you because of other PEOPLES stupid mistakes.

Statistically, BSL does not work anyway. So no matter how you feel about the breed, hating them or banning them does absolutely nothing.

[Buster Brown]

Regardless of the breed I feel that any animal that crosses from their yard, breaks into another yard, and attacks killing 2 dogs and seriously injures a third should be put to sleep. They broke through a wood fence with the sole intent to attack these dogs. The owner irriates me with his my dogs are family why should I have to give them up implying that the dogs that were murdered were not part of a family as well. He should know better than to assume just paying the bills covers HIS negligence. It does not matter if the dogs are friendly to some people they still killed. They now have tasted blood lust and have enjoyed the kill twice, almost three times. I would never feel safe in that neighborhood.

[DBlain]

Originally Posted by Britster

That is just plain ignorance. Okay, so once all the Pit Bulls are gone, all those people who ha.

Believe me I am not ignorant and far from it, I tend to base my beliefs and feelings on statistics more then emotions. I said in a later post that maybe hate was to strong of a word, but I do know that I am glad I don't have to fear one or more moving next door to me. Regulations can be a good thing, everyone lives in different type of settings, many homes in my community are close together and have no fences. Even with fences we live on a lake so a dog could easily gain access from the water if they wanted to. Just like I don't want to live next to a pit, I don't want to live next to chickens and roosters or someone that owned four or five dogs and I feel it is my right to feel somewhat safe and at peace in my own home. If I choose to live in community that allowed all that type of stuff then I would have no beef, but I didn't so if someone moved in next door that I felt was intruding on my safety and peace and it was against township regulations I would report them. Believe my I am not overly picky and have never reported anything, regardless of the various things that bug me that could be considered an infraction. I am only talking about a big thing, that really made a difference in my safety or peace.

Civil order to me is not always a bad thing, because some people like many of the pit bull owners they mention in some of the reports seem to have Pits for the wrong reason, so since it's hard to regulate stupid sometimes the only way is to regulate the act.

Your dog loves to run loose in your yard, how would you feel if where you lived did not allow fences and you had a pit mix or two or three move in next door. What if when you got older and moved out you had to live in an apartment or a townhouse, would you like living next to pit bulls. I doubt they will ever be outlawed but I still don't think every community should allow them. Maybe out in the country they would be fine or like a gun you had to have a permit, but living in close proximity to kids, adults and other pets IMHO I think is an accident waiting to happen, you might not share my belief but it also does not mean mine is ignorant.

[gemy]

As a "breed" the pit bull is not one that I know well. But like many of you I have read seemingly lots about pit bull attacks.
I even watched the tail end of a pit bull and BRT encounter. Luckily neither dog was severely injured, but the BRT young male 18mths old suffered a bad rip of one of his ears. If the owner of the BRT had not interferred with the second pittie attack the BRT would have killed it. BTW BRT's are not usually dog aggressive; after all they were bred to protect humans and that is their focus. And like many of the articles written there was no provocation to the attack. The BRT and owner were exiting the hotel for an evening walk, and bam out of nowhere the off lead pittie rushed in.

As a philosophy BSL is something I have strove to banish here in ONtario. I don't believe in banning a breed. And yes I support dangerous dog legislation; and even given the political climate here in Toronto, going another step further to require all dogs that are licensed in the city to undergo Temperament Tests and CGN evaluations periodically - say every 2 yrs or so. Then licensing of the dog should be free.

Do I trust the pitbulls? Actually no not at all, but they are not the only breed I am leery of. I avoid English bull dogs, as my boy has developed a sincere dislike for them. He was attacked as a young dog by one, and to add insult to injury it was a female! So he shows full dominance if he sees one of those dreaded bull dogs.
I avoid Cane Corso's, and Dogo Argentina's. Also Neo's.

Would I want any of those breeds banned? Nope.

I like what some-one had to say about how they judge when to "avoid" encounters.

a) If I see a large breed dog being walked on a flexi lead, I give a wide berth. Only an idiot walks a large breed dog on a flexi lead.

b) If I see any dog no matter how large or small, acting out on the lead, barking, growling, lunging, I avoid the pair.

c) If I see any dog being walked off lead, I give a wide berth.

d) If I see the on coming owner walking their dog, but when they see us, they short haul up on the lead, or cross the street, or step onto the boulevard, I give the pair a wide berth. My assumption is this dog is not trusted by the owner, or the owner is working on behavioural issues, and for certain I respect that.

But I digress.

[Ellie May]

Odds are already stacked against "pit bulls" in these (biased) statistics. Rots get their own category, etc. Pit bull is not a breed. They are lumping at least three breeds tgether, plus anything that looks like them including boxer mxes, american bull dog mixes... Of course they are going to rank #1 when classified like this. And of course theyare most likely to cause death from bites because they are strong.

I think leaving a bully breed alone with a small dog is crazy. Really, I wouldn't leave a small and large dog alone together at all. I would only allow my girl around a bully breed if it was clearly the happy go lucky type. Some are. I'm not so sure it is a great idea to have more than one giant or gery strong breed living together. I'm sure it works for many people, but any aggressive tendency and they will pack.

There are certain breeds that I prefer to avoid (same goes for my vet although of course vets try to ove them all). I don't trust huskies, malamutes, shepherds, chessies, chows, samoyeds, chihuahas, springer spaniels, wolf hybrids, etc. I don't avoid them. I just wouldn't be interested in owning any of them... Should be start banning some of these?

I can understand bully breed fear and worrying about dog attacks (any large dog that is loose or grumpy on a leash concerns me - my kids get picked p asap and we hope they never get hurt). But I don't think it is fair to say pit owners could find another breed to love. What if somebody said that about orkies? some pits are very special, unique, amazing dogs. There is mo replacement and responsible owners should mot have to give up the breed that they love.

[yorkietalkjilly]

Rotties, labs, GSD's have mixes and look-alikes included in their categories, too, as you know they are not all purebred or labeled correctly after an incident either by their owners, policemen, Animal Control or reporters. Plus, those 3 breeds are all in the top 10 or 15 most popular dog breeds so one would expect they would have a high incidence of bite encounters just by their very huge numbers in homes today while most families are afraid of having pitbull pets. I had a neighbor tell me his dog was a Rottweiler when it looked to be mostly a fat lab/Dobie mix to me! And everything that is big, fuzzy and prick-eared is a Husky to many. Stats are only as good as the correct info of the humans and sometimes they go by what the breeder/seller/shelter tells them.

If I had a big dog, I would expect it to try to get out of its yard and have a secure, very tall fence, locked gates with base protection or I wouldn't have a big, powerful breed. Almost any prey-driven dog is going to try to get out of his fenced yard at some time or another. So often they are left outside alone for prolonged periods with nothing much to challenge them all day or night except what's passing by. It is amazing the inadequate fencing and security many big dog owners have for their large dogs. My neighbor's pitbull a few years back could practically clear their Cox fence jumping sideways, let alone if it had a running start or decided to climb out. It could be over that fence before you could blink.

[gemy]

Agree about the fencing. That is why our fence is 6.5 ft tall, and the locked gateway is 7feet.

I don't want policemen running through my yard after a miscreant, and shooting my dog should he happen to be out!

Unfortunately it doesn't stop the raccoons from entering our yard

I guess as a city person, I've never understood why as a "pet" you would keep a dog outside all the time. I do understand about true working dogs, that are engaged in herding or protecting the flock. But hey if I had a country place my dogs would definitely not live outside! And I would fence in a 1/2 acre or so for them too.

[Britster]

Thought I would add that I agree a dog who has attacked so violently should be put to sleep. I am not in any way saying they shouldn't.

I am just saying banning breeds does not work and you're ignorant if you think otherwise.

[Wylie's Mom]

Originally Posted by Britster

So okay yeah let's hate one breed of dog, just so that humans can destroy another. And another after that. And another. Until one day your realize it affects you, and how you feel is your dog, your baby, your family member was declared dangerous simply for being a terrier, or by the way it looks, and destroyed and taken away from you because of other PEOPLES stupid mistakes.

Statistically, BSL does not work anyway. So no matter how you feel about the breed, hating them or banning them does absolutely nothing.

You really nailed it here, as you always do when discussing BSL.

Originally Posted by Ellie May

Odds are already stacked against "pit bulls" in these (biased) statistics. Rots get their own category, etc. Pit bull is not a breed. They are lumping at least three breeds tgether, plus anything that looks like them including boxer mxes, american bull dog mixes... Of course they are going to rank #1 when classified like this. And of course theyare most likely to cause death from bites because they are strong.

I think leaving a bully breed alone with a small dog is crazy. Really, I wouldn't leave a small and large dog alone together at all. I would only allow my girl around a bully breed if it was clearly the happy go lucky type. Some are. I'm not so sure it is a great idea to have more than one giant or gery strong breed living together. I'm sure it works for many people, but any aggressive tendency and they will pack.

There are certain breeds that I prefer to avoid (same goes for my vet although of course vets try to ove them all). I don't trust huskies, malamutes, shepherds, chessies, chows, samoyeds, chihuahas, springer spaniels, wolf hybrids, etc. I don't avoid them. I just wouldn't be interested in owning any of them... Should be start banning some of these?

I can understand bully breed fear and worrying about dog attacks (any large dog that is loose or grumpy on a leash concerns me - my kids get picked p asap and we hope they never get hurt). But I don't think it is fair to say pit owners could find another breed to love. What if somebody said that about orkies? some pits are very special, unique, amazing dogs. There is mo replacement and responsible owners should mot have to give up the breed that they love.

Great post.

Originally Posted by Britster

Thought I would add that I agree a dog who has attacked so violently should be put to sleep. I am not in any way saying they shouldn't.

I am just saying banning breeds does not work and you're ignorant if you think otherwise.

Totally agree.

And sadly, here is a thread where a German Shephard kills yorkies - so we have to ask, what's next for BSL? German Shephards? It's just *not* as simple as outlawing any one breed: http://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/ani...n-shepard.html

[GeorgiesMomma]

Just chiming in with my 2 cents my brother had a pitbull who was the sweetest boy in the world! It's the owners not the dogs. Can we not put the ownest where it belongs anymore? Just like with children raise them to be kind and considerate of others and odds are they will be. Georgie is a rascal can he hurt someone? It's probably minimal however he is meaner and less social then my brother's pitbull ever was. People would get scared of our Boxer Coco and she was absolutely amazing.

Once we get over the stereotypes I think then as a society we can move forward. I also want to add my condolences for the people who lost their Yorkie that's very sad and I am sorry for their loss.

[yorkiemini]

My understanding from a recent large dog show is that what we call a Pitt bull is what AKC calls a Stafford Terrier.

[lynzy420]

Originally Posted by Wylie's Mom

The breed isn't the problem. It's the people who do things to dogs to alter their temperament who are the problem.

All breeds attack; attacks happen every single day with multiple breeds. In fact, pit bulls attack/bite less than many other breeds, however, THEY are the ones in the media - that's why people rally behind the pit bull hate. If all the German Shepard and Lab bites were in the media, it'd be the same story - with different players.

Again, breeds aren't the problem. People are the problem. You outlaw one breed, and those 'people' will just move on to another breed.

Thank you for this, its all true absolutely true, and on Thanksgiving I was at my nieces and her daughter was attacked but a Golden Retriever that has never ever bitten in her life, the child was nowhere near the dog at the time...I have learned however; that the people who say these types of things are uneducated on the subject and are basing their opinions solely on "what they hear". SAD, and I do remember way back when, before Pitbulls when everyone was afraid of German Shepherds....

[yorkietalkjilly]

Originally Posted by lynzy420

Thank you for this, its all true absolutely true, and on Thanksgiving I was at my nieces and her daughter was attacked but a Golden Retriever that has never ever bitten in her life, the child was nowhere near the dog at the time...I have learned however; that the people who say these types of things are uneducated on the subject and are basing their opinions solely on "what they hear". SAD, and I do remember way back when, before Pitbulls when everyone was afraid of German Shepherds....

And remember the Doberman fear so many people had? There were attack and bite-incident stories in the the newspapers and even on the radio/TV news. They were always in movies and on TV as attack guard dogs or vicious dogs.

[Britster]

Originally Posted by yorkiemini

My understanding from a recent large dog show is that what we call a Pitt bull is what AKC calls a Stafford Terrier.

Correct. Technically, there is no such thing as a 'Pit Bull'. 'Pit Bull' is used a type, not really a breed. And there's often 10+ different breeds that get lumped into the category.

American Pit Bull Terrier (APBT) is the UKC breed registration name. American Staffordshire terrier (Amstaff) is the AKC breed registration name. Many dogs were dual registered with both registries. Some still are. The breed descriptions are essentially identical.

Some people will argue that the Amstaff is a "show breed" and the APBT is a "working breed".

"Pit Bull Terrier" is used as a generic name for any dog that is of the type. However, some will refer to the American Pit Bull Terrier as simply a 'pit bull' and in that case ... it IS correct. I mean, it's kind of like calling a Yorkshire Terrier a Yorkie. I know, confusing, right?!?! But the problem is SO many people call SO many different kinds of breeds 'pit bulls' when they are not.

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y74...cs/Top10s2.png
^ here is a photo of the differences.
Left to right: ADBA, UKC, AKC


I'd be curious if those of you who hate pit bulls and support BSL, could take this quick quiz? Which one is a true American Pit Bull Terrier?

Pet Pitbull - Find the Pit Bull

If you guess incorrectly, THAT'S the reason why BSL doesn't work. Because there's going to be an innocent dog and an innocent family destroyed by it. Because 95% of the population cannot tell the difference.

[gemy]

Is it as innocent as the media rallying against Pit bulls? Or is there another more hidden agenda?
The media has a huge influence on how we view things, people, places and dogs.... And as much as I don't like it, I am a pragmastist and recognize the truth of the power of the media.

Why is it, that so many folks in N.A. don't train their children how to behave around dogs? How did we get to where we are now?

I do remember over 50 yrs ago when I was a child, my parents educated me on how to act around dogs, how to introduce myself, etc. Where did this all go? And I lived in a large city.

I don't know what to "believe" think or feel about Pitbulls. Not the least of which what the hell is one anyhow?

Quite frankly I don't credit any of the "bite" statistics generated by any organization. There is no credence when folks who don't even have any expertise, never you mind DNA testing that attributes bites to any breed of dog.

As a dog lover and fancier/breeder/exhibitor, I can tell you the axiom of all dogs bite is very true.


My most dangerous dog I have ever owned was Zoey who is now dead. She was a BRT and a fear biter; who telegraphed nothing, before nipping at someone. We spent thousands of hours and dollars on trying to train her., to correct her behaviour. Thankfully she never actually connected with anyone.

And yet, our other BRT, who is very stable; would be judged the more dangerous dog. But he is not at all. He goes through a modulated vocal announcement. He has never lashed out at anyone. But his growls are scarey. But you got to know growls are a dogs warning sign, to go away, stand back. And before the growls are barks. In otherwords he telegraphs his position. He has never ever nipped at anyone!! Actually my belief is he would never nip. Oh no, if he ever went after some-one a nip would be the last thing on his mind.

So where do we go from here? I do so believe that BSL is a crock. And I will resist this to my last dying breath, even though a small part of me wonders if certain lines of Pitbulls are genetically programmed to kill.