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04-24-2014, 06:41 AM | #1 |
Donating YT Addict Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Rochester NY
Posts: 342
| Liver shunt success report :) Thanks everyone for the responses. I am sorry that I did not give an update on Mandy's condition. She does have Liver shunt Her bile acid test came back off the charts that surprised the vet. I have done allot of research into the diet for the liver shunt dogs and have seen extraordinary results/ changes in Mandy's condition. I have had the bile acid tests done 2 times now and have decreased significantly with The Latalose and diet. I feed her a low protein home cooked diet I opted for this after I saw the garbage that was in the Hills food. I purchased a few cans and decided to research the best simple home cooked. I give Mandy Salmon, brown rice sweet potatoes and broccoli sometimes Kale is mixed in. I also feed her a bit of plain yogurt and cottage. I also mix in organic carrots too. I also give Mandy Latalose 3 times a day in her food. WOW what I miracle Mandy is one of those cases where she should not have survived her nine years with this. Her Bile acid test decreased by 100 points. The vet has 3 liver shunt cases and these dogs are on the Hills I/D and they are not doing as well as Mandy, her neurological issues have almost become non exsistance she is much more playful and puppy like now what a change !!! It has been about 3 months now. Its does not take a lot of extra time to do this and its worth it just freeze the food.
__________________ Lila Bean Mandy Mini Moo and Jackie Bean's Mom |
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04-24-2014, 06:53 AM | #2 |
Donating YT 500 Club Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: USA
Posts: 4,285
| FANTASTIC!! You are a Yorkie hero. So glad she is doing so much better. You are such a good Yorkie mama
__________________ . Cali , and Cali's keeper and staff, Jay No, not a "mini" Yorkie - She loves to motor in her Mini Cooper car |
04-24-2014, 06:55 AM | #3 |
Resident Yorkie Nut Donating YT 20K Club Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Texas
Posts: 27,448
| Are you not going to do the surgery? I don't want to burst your bubble, but what you are doing is only a temporary fix.
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04-24-2014, 06:57 AM | #4 |
Resident Yorkie Nut Donating YT 20K Club Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Texas
Posts: 27,448
| Oh, and as for dogs living for years with liver shunts....that is actually quite common. My Teddy Bear was diagnosed last year and he was an adult pup. I adopted him in 2007 and he never had symptoms...he suddenly got bladder stones and ended up being diagnosed with a shunt. He had the surgery, and is doing very well now on a regular diet. Link to Teddy's thread about his surgery: http://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/sic...ver-shunt.html
__________________ Last edited by ladyjane; 04-24-2014 at 06:58 AM. |
04-24-2014, 10:00 AM | #5 |
T. Bumpkins & Co. Donating YT Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: New England
Posts: 9,816
| What were her bile acids before and after? How did you know she had a shunt - what tests were done?
__________________ Washable Doggie Pee Pads (Save 10% Enter YTSAVE10 at checkout) Cathy, Teddy, Winston and Baby Clyde...RIP angels Barney and Daisy |
04-24-2014, 02:30 PM | #6 |
Donating YT Addict Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Rochester NY
Posts: 342
| Ok My Mandy just turned 9 years old and to have the surgery it would be approx. pretty difficult at this point due to her fragile state relating to anesthesia with the last surgical procedure. It also cost 7,000 to 8,000. I would do it if she was not doing well on the diet. I do not have a positive diagnosis of shunt but with the bile acid testing and her symptoms her initial pre value was 261 now down to 165 it was after 2 months on the diet with the lactulose she started going up the stairs playing like she has not in many years with my other 2 Yorkies. I am not asking for ideas I know what my options are and at this point I am not opting for the surgery she did terrible coming out of anesthesia from her dental they really had a terrible time keeping her stable and if all else fails I may have to take her to Cornell University to have the surgery but I am just reporting my findings. I am very aware and not ignorant to what this disease is. I wanted others to know that a home cooked diet can make a big difference versus the commercial Hills. THANKS so much for all the support from those with positive remarks
__________________ Lila Bean Mandy Mini Moo and Jackie Bean's Mom |
04-24-2014, 02:33 PM | #7 |
Donating YT Addict Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Rochester NY
Posts: 342
| Thanks so much I really try to provide the best care for my babies I am so happy and trying to stay as positive as possible the vet said she has never seen a Yorkie with those levels make it past the age of 3 So I believe that the Lord has a hand on her and gave us the ability to research and common sense to do the right thing Thanks again.
__________________ Lila Bean Mandy Mini Moo and Jackie Bean's Mom |
04-24-2014, 02:40 PM | #8 | |
Resident Yorkie Nut Donating YT 20K Club Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Texas
Posts: 27,448
| Quote:
While you think she is improving, I can tell you that her bile acids are quite high! Surgery for liver shunt should not cost what you quoted....you might want to ask around about that. I spent over $7,000 last year on my pup with a liver shunt; but he was in the EC one night and then in ICU for a night and then had the liver shunt surgery plus surgery for bladder stones. Liver shunt alone should not be over $4,000 anywhere as far as I understand. If you don't want to do the surgery, that's all well and good; but people DO need to know that it is the usual treatment of choice for a liver shunt. As to home cooked diets vs commercial RX diets...they both work, but only IF you do a consult with a vet nutritionist. Just putting food together without supplements and balanced diet is not good. I have a lot of experience with pups on home cooked diets and also RX diets and both have served them well. It varies on a case by case basis what will work best in terms of diet. I wish you and your pup well...I will keep her in my prayers.
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04-24-2014, 02:59 PM | #9 |
Resident Yorkie Nut Donating YT 20K Club Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Texas
Posts: 27,448
| And it does not surprise me that Mandy had a difficult time with anesthesia...that was more than likely due to the fact she has a liver shunt! That does not mean she could not have surgery for the shunt. A specialist could give you an opinion on that. Good luck!
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04-24-2014, 03:12 PM | #10 |
Donating YT Addict Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Rochester NY
Posts: 342
| I am in NY and there are 2 hospitals here in upstate that does this surgery one is cornell which is 2 hours away and nearby her in Rochester. The surgery is that expensive. I am sorry that I disagree with you regarding the RX Hills it has many ingredients that I do not agree with. That is my opinion. I know that this could be temporary fix and have already spent thousands of dollars on all my Yorkies. I dont have a problem if this is the only option. I have looked into the milk thistle which I may add at some point. I consult with my vet regularly. Thanks for your words if encouragement. I forgot why I don't post much but now I rememeber thanks I felt your comment was very nice and I appreciate it.
__________________ Lila Bean Mandy Mini Moo and Jackie Bean's Mom |
04-24-2014, 03:43 PM | #11 |
♥ Maximo and Teddy Donating Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 25,041
| Happy to hear Mandy is doing well. I would want a definitive diagnosis if my dog were in this situation. I wouldn't rely on BATs alone. It might be that there isn't a liver shunt. Could be MVD as MauiGirl posted in another thread, and Jeanie posted right below her that she had the same experience with her pup: http://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/4426030-post8.html That would give me great peace of mind, although still not a cakewalk. In terms of anesthesia, I've read here of many cases of dogs with various ailments including compromised livers/LS who have surgery. As long as the specialist knows in advance, a special protocol is tailored to make anesthesia safe. Same with humans -- that is why the anesthesiologist often meets with patients before surgery.
__________________ Kristin, Max and Teddy |
04-24-2014, 05:53 PM | #12 |
♥ Love My Tibbe! ♥ Donating Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: D/FW, Texas
Posts: 22,140
| That is a good report! I'm so glad she's doing better and feeling good. I was wondering if your baby had scintigraphy and abdominal sonogram or is your vet basing the diagnosis of liver shunt only on the elevated bile acids lowering somewhat and less symptoms since her diet change and the lactulose? I would want to have a full diagnostic work-up under the circumstances and find out for sure if she is a L/S candidate so I would know what to expect as time goes on and she ages. Chances are, if she has L/S w/out corrective surgery, as she gets older, anesthesia would become an even greater danger so that even anesthesia to pull an abscessed tooth, sedate her for an x-ray or stitches if she hurts her leg badly or perform any simple operative procedure could become a life-threatening situation. But there are other considerations as well. I would ask my vet if L/S is treated only with diet and lactulose, is she still getting an increased load of toxins into her system above what she would if she had corrective surgery. Because if she is, he needs to explain you what further issues down the road Mandy will be facing so you will know how she will be able to be treated as she further ages for things such as bladder stones, hepatoencephalopathy with neurological dullness, weakness, stumbling, seizures and things like that.
__________________ Jeanie and Tibbe One must do the best one can. You may get some marks for a very imperfect answer: you will certainly get none for leaving the question alone. C. S. Lewis |
04-24-2014, 06:05 PM | #13 |
Resident Yorkie Nut Donating YT 20K Club Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Texas
Posts: 27,448
| Medical Treatment of Portosystemic Shunts Maybe this will help those who don't know about medical treatment alone for liver shunt. The link also discusses anesthesia with LS pups.
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04-30-2014, 04:28 AM | #14 |
Donating YT Addict Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Rochester NY
Posts: 342
| Thanks so much for the link
__________________ Lila Bean Mandy Mini Moo and Jackie Bean's Mom |
04-30-2014, 06:07 AM | #15 |
I♥PeekTinkySaph&Finny Donating Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: Baltimore, Maryland
Posts: 18,865
| Older dogs can also have a Bile Duct blockage or sludge, which will produce the same blood work results as a dog with Liver Shunt. Did the vet check your dog's Liver enzymes or only do the BAT test? It's also important to do x-rays and an ultra sound to check for stones in the bladder and to assess kidney health. (This I know from personal experience) Also, the Lactulose may work for a while, but bc it changes the chemistry of the gut, a dog may have to stop taking it. It is not a long term solution. My Tink stopped eating anything after being on Lactulose for 2 years. As soon as I gave her food without it, she gobbled it down. Just watch out for any bloating and lack of appetite. Her BATs were over 300 and she did not have a shunt. She had exploratory surgery, and the vet was prepared to fix a shunt if one was found, but none was there. Her bile duct was blocked and causing liver problems. The fix for that is a simple pill that dissolves the sludge in the bile duct. Blood work may indicate this as the problem.
__________________ Kat Chloe Lizzy PeekABooTinkerbell SapphireInfinity Last edited by kjc; 04-30-2014 at 06:08 AM. |
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