Question about chocolates and biewers

[linz06]

I'm not a breeder, and I wouldn't even consider breeding, but I am curious and have tons of questions about coloring!
Now am I right that chocolates occur from a recessive gene in both parents? And what about biewers?
All these questions just came up when I was browsing local dogs for sale ads and I came across this:

F1 Biewer Yorkies...Bianca, Ava & Isabella
BEAUTIFUL "BARBIE DOLLS" STUNNING & EXQUISITE FEMALE Biewer X Yorkie cross Puppies. TINY, SWEET AND LOVABLE AS CAN BE. ...GORGEOUS FACES. GREAT THICK SILKY COATS TOO. DARLING IN EVERY WAY.
Little Yorkie girls that carry for the biewer color as well as chocolate!
Bianca & (Ava sold)are going to be silver... Isabella will be black/tan
all of the girls have white accents on them
They are totally enchanting little sweethearts

The "biewer color as well as chocolate" part kind of threw me off. Plus they're only asking $975 for these babies which seems way too low!
Can anyone share some knowledge?

[Jeri Cunningham]

Here is info on Biewers. I just got two!
HISTORY OF THE BIEWER YORKSHIRE a' la POM-PON


The unusual result of the mating of two lovely standard Yorkshire Terriers in Germany was the beginning of this wonderful breed. The parents were blue & tan Ruede Darling of Friedheck, world youth winner 1981 in Dortmund and blue & tan Fru Fru of Friedheck, world youth winner 1981 in Dortmund. The product of this mating in 1983 brought the first blue-white-golden Yorkie in the world - " Schneefloeckchen (snowflake in english) of Friedheck " owned by Gertrud and Werner Biewer.

From this mating the Biewer family continued to breed its "colored Yorkies". It is thought that a recessive piebald gene present in both dogs combined making the dominiant gene in the puppy giving the white underbelly and unusual markings. Using careful line breeding, the Biewer was developed and is now recognized in German registries and the standard was recorded in 1989.

When the husband of the singer Margot Eskens saw this remarkable little dog, he bought a Biewer Yorkshire for her. This dog was presented to her with a baptizing meal in a French restaurant on the tray with a giant Trara by the chief cook. That made this evening a "Pom Pon celebration". And so the name was attached to the Biewer Yorkshsire. Ms. Eskens' dog lived to 16 years old.

[linz06]

Thanks for the info! I have been drooling over pictures of Spanky and Darla, they are gorgeous dogs!
So for these puppies for sale, one parent had to be pure biewer for the dogs to absolutely be carrying the gene right? So where does the chocolate come in? Was it a biewer bred to a chocolate? Since the chocolate gene is recessive, the parent would need to have both chocolate genes, and the other would have both beiwer. Should the babies not be colored one way or the other? I don't understand how they can be silver or black and tan, and yet be carriers of the biewer gene AND chocolate gene

[GreenwoodBiewer]

OK, I don't know for sure but this is my guess, I think your right .. The chocolate gene was in the Yorkie parent. The F1 comes when you cross a traditionally colored Yorkie to a full Biewer.. the pups (called splitters) would look like traditional yorkies. They would carry the Biewer from the one parent and I imagine, if the Yorkie parent had chocolate in the background or was a chocolate Yorkie, the pups would carry that gene too.. (sorry, I'm not to versed on the chocolates)

The "silver" coloring and the black coloring I understand as I have a sibling group of two female splitters.. one has very very dark black and vibrant golden tan, the other is more muted tan and silver/blue. If these girls are bred to full Biewers, some of the litter would still look like a yorkie while some would look like a Biewer and be a Biewer..

Hope that helps..

Diana

[scrapindee]

Diana,

That was the best explanation I have read of the chocolate.

Linz,

I don't think most Biewer breeders are interested in the Chocolate gene, I might be wrong here trying to speak for all other breeders. The idea of creating splitters or F1's is not just to throw together a Biewer with a (pardon the expression) run-of-the-mill Yorkie (just because it has papers doesn't mean every yorkie should be bred, MHO). It should be a Yorkie of excellent lines, many champions, tested for LS and other genetic diseases. That being said, I only breed Biewer to Biewer.

The fact that the price is so low would make me suspicious--no papers or it wasn't a good breeding--maybe an oops. I would ask a lot of questions and I would ask to see the pedigree. I am always happy to review pedigrees for YTrs. Beter to be cautious before you fall in love or bring home problems with a new puppy.

[Pinehaven]

Originally Posted by linz06

I'm not a breeder, and I wouldn't even consider breeding, but I am curious and have tons of questions about coloring!
Now am I right that chocolates occur from a recessive gene in both parents? And what about biewers?
All these questions just came up when I was browsing local dogs for sale ads and I came across this:

F1 Biewer Yorkies...Bianca, Ava & Isabella
BEAUTIFUL "BARBIE DOLLS" STUNNING & EXQUISITE FEMALE Biewer X Yorkie cross Puppies. TINY, SWEET AND LOVABLE AS CAN BE. ...GORGEOUS FACES. GREAT THICK SILKY COATS TOO. DARLING IN EVERY WAY.
Little Yorkie girls that carry for the biewer color as well as chocolate!
Bianca & (Ava sold)are going to be silver... Isabella will be black/tan
all of the girls have white accents on them
They are totally enchanting little sweethearts

The "biewer color as well as chocolate" part kind of threw me off. Plus they're only asking $975 for these babies which seems way too low!
Can anyone share some knowledge?

In order for the pups to carry both the biewer (parti gene) and chocolate gene, one parent would need to be a biewer and the other a chocolate (or maybe one parent is a Biro - chocolate biewer basically).

How old are the pups? They must have some age on them, otherwise how would they know that two were going to be silver and one was going to be black and tan?

I think I'd be a bit suspicious and cautious ... the only key word they didn't use in the ad was tea cup!

[linz06]

Originally Posted by Pinehaven

In order for the pups to carry both the biewer (parti gene) and chocolate gene, one parent would need to be a biewer and the other a chocolate (or maybe one parent is a Biro - chocolate biewer basically).

How old are the pups? They must have some age on them, otherwise how would they know that two were going to be silver and one was going to be black and tan?

I think I'd be a bit suspicious and cautious ... the only key word they didn't use in the ad was tea cup!

Lol when I saw that ad I actually scanned it for "teacup" first
The photos on the site are of very young yorkies, I'm sure they wouldn't be able to tell yet what the colors would be, and especially not "GREAT THICK SILKY COATS TOO"
I found another ad, I'm assuming from the same person, for F1 Biewer Yorkies, and all it said was that the biewer was imported from Germany and there were no pictures of puppies, but one picture of a biewer with everything around him covered up in Paint it looks like, and then a little textbox that says "Biewer". Suspicious!
Here is the ad with the actual puppy pictures:
F1 Biewer Yorkies...Bianca, Ava & Isabella - Saskatoon Dogs & Puppies For Sale - Kijiji Saskatoon

[GreenwoodBiewer]

I've seen that adult Biewers photo before.. it's been along while since I've looked at Biewers to purchase but if I'm not mistaken.. it comes from a breeder in Hungary.. I'll see if I can find it somewhere but I know I've seen it..that background is difficult to forget. It always reminded me of the 60's...LOL

Those puppies look a bit odd to me to.. maybe it's the "chocolate" in them but really, most splitters
I've seen look just like little yorkie pups.. you really can't tell the difference especially at that age.

-Diana

[calaryn yorkies]

Originally Posted by GreenwoodBiewer

Those puppies look a bit odd to me to.. maybe it's the "chocolate" in them but really, most splitters
I've seen look just like little yorkie pups.. you really can't tell the difference especially at that age.

-Diana

Diana, I was thinking the same thing about those pups, they don't look very Yorkie to me. We only breed Biewer to Biewer, so I have no experience with splitter puppies but it seems to me if these pups were splitters, the pups should look like Yorkie pups just with possible extra white.

Maybe the pups described had more than one sire? Or the Yorkie used was mixed with something else? hmmmmmm who knows.