Let's discuss the intent / direction of this section

[ladyjane]

It is not that it is harmful...it is still advertising. You are sending a very direct message that you will do custom work.
There is a forum for people to post reviews about your work.
As for the charity thing...that is all I do. Everything I have sold thus far has been a YHR donation....it is still considered a sale and a profit in the Sale Forum and not handled in a different fashion.
Make sense?

[southernbelle04]

I understand what you are saying there too. What if when something like that is posted we just say something like 'hey, I made this today.' But not say what we made it for in the post. Would that be ok? I mean just share the project and maybe about fabrics, techniques you tried but not what it is for.

[Roxys Mom]

I love this section, I like to see the pups all dressed up...and love seeing what you talented ladies are making.

I only wish I had that kind of talent...and wish there were more boy clothes. Poor Oliver....hoodies for him this winter.

[ashley_]

I recently started sewing and soon as I made my first outfit for my pup the first thing I wanted to do was share it in this forum! Right now I only make stuff for my own dogs, but seeing as I keep making things and she is never going to outgrow them I might eventually sell/give them away. But I don't think that is a reason to not be able to post.
I stalk this forum all the time for new ideas, and love to see what everyone else makes. If I am ever planning on buying something I always go to the for sale section, so I feel like I'm not really influenced in buying from the fashion forum. If I had to look in multiple places to see what other people were making just because they might be selling it I feel like it would make me much less likely to look here at all. I want to see people's fabric/fashion ideas. Not that they were selling that particular item for x dollars.

So IMO that is what this forum is for, Showing new ideas/fashions/clothes handmade by you, someone else, or bought. Nothing to do with who the item is or might be going to, but where it came from.
(also I am a big fan when people share that chain stores are having sales, it is a big help to me because I don't always remember to look at the ads, I would be very sad if we weren't able to post sales anymore)

[DBlain]

sometimes people post things they made on here with no intention of selling them but then someone comments and asks do you sell them or can you make something for me and things just develop. Also for the price most of these people sell the items for it's hard to belive they even make any money it, which I know should not matter but I guess for some reason to me it does. I am in sales and can be a hard core when needed, I am also very put off by a lot of sales people in person or on line, yet honestly I have never felt that here and I come here multiple times a day to see new stuff. Again today I don't think there is even one new thread on this forum, I know rules are rules but I can see this happening already a lot of our regular contributors on this forum are now selling as well as creating for themselves, so now they are going to be afraid to post here because there will be a gray line and they will have a hard time figuring out when and when not to cross it. Like I posted yesterday this forum is not that busy now, it will only get less and less so if changes are made and I fore one will be disappointed when that happens. I don't look at a lot of rules here so I am a little confused but as far as organizations like Lady Jane's that sells things only to raise money for a yorkie charity, IMHO should be allowed in a certain section to post anything they want. However if it is a seller saying 5% of the sales goes to charity that would be different.

[Tina21]

This is the first forum I check to when I am here. I never considered people who showed the clothing they made were advertising their items. I always perceived the posts as a way to share the fashions that people make and to get feedback on those items. Yes there are many who sell these items as well but to only allow pics and posts from YT members that do not sell clothing would seriously lower posts on a forum that doesn't get many posts already.

I read the rules before posting and hopefully I haven't posted anything that breaks or even bends the rules. I do sell my items but so far only in store and I was so excited that I wanted to share that news with everyone on this forum. I never thought it could be perceived as a way of selling and if anyone thought it did I am so sorry . The members here are wonderful and very supportive. Where else am I going to talk about making dog clothes? Who else is really going to take an active interest in my making fashions for dogs lol? (most people think I am a "little" crazy when I tell them)

I love this forum and I love seeing what sellers ( internet or in store ) have made and I have never felt like I am being sold to. For example when Aymee posted that she had opened an etsy store I was so happy for her and so glad that she shared her great news. I love it when those who sell clothes share what they are doing. I have picked up some great ideas thanks to the posts of members who make clothes and I am often inspired by their creations. If other members of YT feel the forum has strayed from its intended purpose could we perhaps create a forum that would allow those who make items and also sell those items to share creations and good news?

I understand the concerns and I truly believe in following the rules set out for each forum. I see that there is a real grey area with this forum but I would be so sad to no longer be able to see what everyone is making whether to sell or not. This forum has been wonderful and if it has to be restricted I will understand but I will miss it.

[sugarmamma]

Originally Posted by DBlain

sometimes people post things they made on here with no intention of selling them but then someone comments and asks do you sell them or can you make something for me and things just develop. Also for the price most of these people sell the items for it's hard to belive they even make any money it, which I know should not matter but I guess for some reason to me it does. I am in sales and can be a hard core when needed, I am also very put off by a lot of sales people in person or on line, yet honestly I have never felt that here and I come here multiple times a day to see new stuff. Again today I don't think there is even one new thread on this forum, I know rules are rules but I can see this happening already a lot of our regular contributors on this forum are now selling as well as creating for themselves, so now they are going to be afraid to post here because there will be a gray line and they will have a hard time figuring out when and when not to cross it. Like I posted yesterday this forum is not that busy now, it will only get less and less so if changes are made and I fore one will be disappointed when that happens. I don't look at a lot of rules here so I am a little confused but as far as organizations like Lady Jane's that sells things only to raise money for a yorkie charity, IMHO should be allowed in a certain section to post anything they want. However if it is a seller saying 5% of the sales goes to charity that would be different.

That is why we need the rules in place. It erases all of those gray lines.

[DBlain]

Originally Posted by sugarmamma

That is why we need the rules in place. It erases all of those gray lines.

yes but it will also erase a lot of threads here as well. I just wish they would leave it be and if someone felt it was being abused just report the post and the admin people could address it with the poster. Reporting a post is annoymous so I would think if someone felt strongly they would have no problem doing that.

[chattiesmom]

A simple solution would be to respond by private message to any request made about an item in this forum that is related to selling.

Unless all photographs are banned from YT there is no way to prevent inquiries regarding buying. If I see something that really WOWs me I never hesitate to contact via pm the person posting the item.

SO if vendors want to post new or special fashions here in the Fashion Forum don't make any overt reference to selling and respond to all queries by pm then it would help maintain the intent of the forum.

[Wylie's Mom]

Originally Posted by DBlain

yes but it will also erase a lot of threads here as well. I just wish they would leave it be and if someone felt it was being abused just report the post and the admin people could address it with the poster. Reporting a post is annoymous so I would think if someone felt strongly they would have no problem doing that.

Ostensibly, this was the original thought. However, when people have reported some threads in the past - we go to look at them (Admin or Mods) and the threads truly appear to be no different from most of the other threads in this section. As a result, we don't really see how we can close this or that reported thread, as compared to other threads that are virtually the same. In other words, it doesn't really leave us w/ anything tangible to address privately w/ the posters whose threads are reported.

Hence, this thread...in order to better understand how people view and use this section.

What I'm hearing is that people are mostly happy w/ the way things are now (and no worries, there are no plans for splitting this section into sub-sections at this time).

For now, I'm not really sure that add'l hard and fast rules are truly needed in this section. I'm hearing that there are some concerns about whether this section is another marketing tool for sellers. I suppose we could say the same for the Product Feedback/Review section too though - I know a number of times sellers have posted for product feedback in that section, and a buyer might ask "when will you be selling these, I want one!" -- which could also be viewed as sidebar marketing.

At this point, I'm mostly inclined to leave it as is - while also suggesting that posters be aware of the concerns about posting items in here that they'll later sell in the For Sale section. I'm just not hearing we really need a firm rule on this concern, as I'm not really seeing measurable or significant damage being done as a result of this section. I am hearing, however, that a LOT people simply enjoy this forum and would be disappointed to see it change or be overly restricted due to the concerns stated above.

Perhaps we leave it alone for now, and reassess later if necessary....? Unless people have additional things to say before we put it to rest...?

[chattiesmom]

Ann, as usual you are spot on! Perhaps some of the complaints about threads has more to do with personality conflicts or someone having a bad day.

[ladyjane]

Originally Posted by chattiesmom

Ann, as usual you are spot on! Perhaps some of the complaints about threads has more to do with personality conflicts or someone having a bad day.

All I can say is "wow". To suggest that people are just complaining instead of really caring about the direction of the forum? I honestly think that is patently unfair.

I am one who complained" (although I felt I was "reporting") and for what I consider very valid reasons. I did not do it because I have issues with any of the people who posted in this forum...I do think that many of the postings were advertisements and my understanding was that people who sell are not allowed to do that. They were not my competition so it had nothing to do with that either. I just saw something that I felt could be a potential problem for the forum and reported it...I did not see it as complaining.

Hope maybe you can take the time to understand that when people hit the exclamation button it is often because they think what they are saying is feedback for the good of the forum.

How wonderful of you Ann to give of your precious time to solve this issue.

[DBlain]

Yes Yes Yes, Ann you totally get it, glad to hear that for now the forum will remain as it is THANK YOU

[107barney]

I've refrained from posting my items in this section because I do think it usurps the seller rules. We have a selling forum and we pay as donating members to advertise. We also have seller review and product review threads. I always felt if I posted something I made, others would definitely ask about it or order it, and therefore I would indirectly be trolling for business. I don't like the use of this forum to say "hi guys, look what I made, and by the way, here's a link to my store and my sales thread" -- not fair for other vendors. The seller forum controls the # and frequency of sales threads and has a built in check and balance whereas this forum is turning into a free for all. I agree with LadyJane it's not about who likes who or who likes what. I know if posted a dress collection in this section it would take away sales from other dress makers or newer vendors trying to establish a customer base that some of the older vendors already have. There is enough business to go around without encroaching on rules that are designed to prevent abuses. I would love to see this section be a place to share ideas and tips, etc.

[kjc]

Just thinking... being that the 'For Sale' forum is a place for Vendors to showcase their wares... should this forum be restricted to non-vendors?

Then we need to define non-vendor... one who doesn't sell, or has sold less than XX number of items... it is nice to post and item either way to get a feel for how that item will do on the market, or to get constructive criticism to tweak the item before offering it for sale... IDK!

Or just post pics of clothes made not intended for sale... or buyers only postings.