Show potentials not working out...

[k2p1e]

When a show potentials does not become a show quality, they do not work out. WHy is it usually the reason?? Size? Or is the coat color often the problem? I am just curious because I realize size can somewhat be estimated at so many weeks...but coat color?

It was suggested to me that I may have better luck with a breeder if I were aiming for show potential rather then quality. Because most show quality females breeders keep for them selves compared to the potentials... just a thought worth investigating and curiosity!!

[ButterflyYorkie]

Originally Posted by k2p1e

When a show potentials does not become a show quality, they do not work out. WHy is it usually the reason?? Size? Or is the coat color often the problem? I am just curious because I realize size can somewhat be estimated at so many weeks...but coat color?

It was suggested to me that I may have better luck with a breeder if I were aiming for show potential rather then quality. Because most show quality females breeders keep for them selves compared to the potentials... just a thought worth investigating and curiosity!!

I am fairly new to the show world but believe me I've paid my dues and done my homework. I have only shown dogs bred by me, and one that belongs to a friend. My thoughts on a show po not working out would be from many different things possibly happening. A beautiful dead on top line going "off" as they mature, a bite that is off. Getting too large or staying way too small, A coat texture and or length not being up to par. Color could be perfect as a teenager then go way off. A female is a gamble when her heat cycle comes in. You're not going to get a true "show quality" at a young age anyway. The attitude of the dog meaning it ended up not having a showy little attitude in the ring or around crowds. A near perfect baby in all other areas won't do well if he or she doesn't show well. They are show potentials first. In my opinion they truly become show quality when they start to do well in the ring over and over. Like I stated, I am fairly new and I never stop learning myself but these are just a few of my thoughts. Best wishes!

[Mardelin]

Originally Posted by k2p1e

When a show potentials does not become a show quality, they do not work out. WHy is it usually the reason?? Size? Or is the coat color often the problem? I am just curious because I realize size can somewhat be estimated at so many weeks...but coat color?

It was suggested to me that I may have better luck with a breeder if I were aiming for show potential rather then quality. Because most show quality females breeders keep for them selves compared to the potentials... just a thought worth investigating and curiosity!!

There are a multitude of things that can go wrong. Show Dogs are born, then they must be molded. If for some reason they are handled incorrectly in the beginning it can definately ruin a good show dog. You show never buy a show potential. A show quality dog can be assessed at a young age, however, the final purchase should not be made before 7 months of age, preferrably later if you're new to the world. If you're new, find a mentor that is knowledgable to help you make the final decision. Early training is of prime importance.

[ButterflyYorkie]

Originally Posted by Mardelin

There are a multitude of things that can go wrong. Show Dogs are born, then they must be molded. If for some reason they are handled incorrectly in the beginning it can definately ruin a good show dog. You show never buy a show potential. A show quality dog can be assessed at a young age, however, the final purchase should not be made before 7 months of age, preferrably later if you're new to the world. If you're new, find a mentor that is knowledgable to help you make the final decision. Early training is of prime importance.

I agree with EVERYTHING you said however I mildly disagree with the statement "you should never buy a show potential". I say this in all due respect but feel that not every person has the luxary of obtaining a true blue show quality at first and may obtain a show potential from a very reputable breeder with no guarantee. I understand this completely. So I agree with the fact that one should find a mentor that they trust and go from there.

Original poster you should also take into consideration your location and what is being shown in your area unless you are willing to do some serious traveling. What is winning on the east coast may be a different ball game from the west coast so my point is to find out what YOU like and find a breeder who understands that. When you go to many shows you will notice a wide variety of different types of yorkies in the ring. I definitely have my "type" that I'm drawn to, but it may not be what is everyone's type is and vice versa. Just hold tight to your dreams and never give up if this is something you truly want to do. Best wishes always,

[ButterflyYorkie]

I wasn't allowed enough time to edit.

I wanted to say that most show breeders who have a heart understand that they along with everyone had to start somewhere. We all had to start somewhere! It all boils down to who is serious and who is not. The breeders who have established years of hard work and dedication in their lines are the one's who have a truly tough job. Why should they just toss their lines around to someone who isn't going to live up? I'm sure their heart aches at times when they have to turn down folks. But there is a bigger picture and dedication is the key.

[Mardelin]

Originally Posted by ButterflyYorkie

I agree with EVERYTHING you said however I mildly disagree with the statement "you should never buy a show potential". I say this in all due respect but feel that not every person has the luxary of obtaining a true blue show quality at first and may obtain a show potential from a very reputable breeder with no guarantee. I understand this completely. So I agree with the fact that one should find a mentor that they trust and go from there.

Original poster you should also take into consideration your location and what is being shown in your area unless you are willing to do some serious traveling. What is winning on the east coast may be a different ball game from the west coast so my point is to find out what YOU like and find a breeder who understands that. When you go to many shows you will notice a wide variety of different types of yorkies in the ring. I definitely have my "type" that I'm drawn to, but it may not be what is everyone's type is and vice versa. Just hold tight to your dreams and never give up if this is something you truly want to do. Best wishes always,

I can understand your disagreement with my statement of not buying a show potential. However, it was aimed at newbies that are really wanting to get in the ring with their first show dog. Those at are just starting out. Recently a newbie was in such a hurry to buy the new show dog from a very reputable line, bought a show potential at approximately 4 1/2 months of age. The lil dog perfect any every way at 6, 8, 9 months of age, except 1 thing.....testicles didn't seat. As you can imagine the lil dog is an expensive pet.

Yes, you're very right in finding a mentor that lives reasonably close to you. And it is very important to attend lots of shows to watch, look and listen to help you decide what your "type" of dog is before making the purchase of your 1st show dog.

[k2p1e]

Those are some great points. I guess I would assume that finding a female show qulaity will be near impossible compared to show potential, I cannot see a breeder letting a girl go (or maybe that is jsut me, lol).

I am drawn to a certian type, the more I learn and look at yorkies the more I see and the more I draw my conclusion what I prefer. The type being shown over here is not my type.

Here is another question (I know I am full of questions... ) are there breeders that will sell a "show" potential pup at pet price and the breeder retain ownership on the papers and retain the papers, when the pup proves to be "show quality" and the new owner is ready to show the pup, they owe the breeder and additional fee (so the amount is now equal to the cost of a show quality pup), the breeder then gives them the papers so they are able to show but they are still a co-owner of the dog. When the dog has finished their championship the new onwer becomes full owner with full rights???

I realize that it is a huge chance and breeders would really need to trust a new owner with a potentially great pup (which they do anyways when selling any pup). I guess ethically I could never (personally) sell a pup which I thought in my expert opinion was show pontential for show quality price and then the pup not be show quality. It just does not seem ehical, I realize that is how it is done but ethically I have a problem with that. It makes me nervous as a newbie and for other newbies.

Sorry if this seems a bit confusing!!

[Mardelin]

Originally Posted by k2p1e

Those are some great points. I guess I would assume that finding a female show qulaity will be near impossible compared to show potential, I cannot see a breeder letting a girl go (or maybe that is jsut me, lol).

I am drawn to a certian type, the more I learn and look at yorkies the more I see and the more I draw my conclusion what I prefer. The type being shown over here is not my type.

Here is another question (I know I am full of questions... ) are there breeders that will sell a "show" potential pup at pet price and the breeder retain ownership on the papers and retain the papers, when the pup proves to be "show quality" and the new owner is ready to show the pup, they owe the breeder and additional fee (so the amount is now equal to the cost of a show quality pup), the breeder then gives them the papers so they are able to show but they are still a co-owner of the dog. When the dog has finished their championship the new onwer becomes full owner with full rights???

I realize that it is a huge chance and breeders would really need to trust a new owner with a potentially great pup (which they do anyways when selling any pup). I guess ethically I could never (personally) sell a pup which I thought in my expert opinion was show pontential for show quality price and then the pup not be show quality. It just does not seem ehical, I realize that is how it is done but ethically I have a problem with that. It makes me nervous as a newbie and for other newbies.

Sorry if this seems a bit confusing!!

No, it is not impossible for you to get a show quality dog. Think of it this way; breeders breed for that next Champion and I think I said this before, we can't show them or keep them all. Yes, most of the time the keep the very best for themselves, but it's not uncommon that 2 siblings are in the ring at the same time. For instance, my breeder had a litter of 3 a year ago last July, all 3 were show potential, 2 are now in the ring owned by 2 different people. The 3rd, though beautiful in conformation, just didn't want to show, so the beeder kept her for breeding.

Each breeder's contract is different, and some issues can be worked out with the breeder. I do know that there are breeders that even when selling a show quality dog retains co-ownership throughout the life of the dog. This can mean, they retain stud rights, puppy or 2 back from first litter, who you breed the dog too. But, most mean the dog must be Championed and after a certain time (usually about 18 months of age) has not obtained Championship it must be sent out with a professional handler. Most breeders feel this is protecting their stock from landing up in the wrong hands. In my opinion, a contract is only as good as the people signing it. Therefore, I can't stress enough, the breeder and potential owner must have a good, trusting relationship. Each having a responsibility to each other and a very common bond and love for the dog.

I can only tell you what I did to get my first show dog. Went to a lot of shows, watched, learned and listened and a lot of schlupping and became a very good gopher.....doing this and that to assist yorkie exhibitors. Once, I did my homework (pedigree research and alot of question asking) I approached the breeder I had picked. When I went to the breeder requesting a show dog, I requested that because I still had a very untrained eye that she make the final decision in picking my show dog and waited. Let me stress here, don't let your heart get in the way, stick with your goal in what you want to accomplish and trust your breeder's knowledge. Patience is what you need most of; I waited a year and half before my first show dog from my breeder/mentor.

By the way ask all the questions you want.

[ButterflyYorkie]

Originally Posted by Mardelin

I can understand your disagreement with my statement of not buying a show potential. However, it was aimed at newbies that are really wanting to get in the ring with their first show dog. Those at are just starting out. Recently a newbie was in such a hurry to buy the new show dog from a very reputable line, bought a show potential at approximately 4 1/2 months of age. The lil dog perfect any every way at 6, 8, 9 months of age, except 1 thing.....testicles didn't seat. As you can imagine the lil dog is an expensive pet.

Yes, you're very right in finding a mentor that lives reasonably close to you. And it is very important to attend lots of shows to watch, look and listen to help you decide what your "type" of dog is before making the purchase of your 1st show dog.

Oh yes. I can imagine that he was an expensive little pet.
I'm sorry that happened to the person. I know it must be very upsetting. Tell her who ever she is not to give up. I can "kind of" relate to how that feels. I have a gorgeous little fellow that I had grown a heck of a coat on. Had him trained to work very nicely with me and my daughter. Was just about to put him in a UKC show and try him out but had a dental on him first. He needed 3 teeth pulled. Well a long story short, his ear went down the next day. Is still down no matter what we have tried. We are now thinking there was "possibly" some nerve damage done from "something" relating to the tooth that was extracted on that side (top). We've consulted with alot of different people and that's the most logical opinion we have been given. We know we'll never show him but boy do we love him just the same.

[Mardelin]

Originally Posted by ButterflyYorkie

Oh yes. I can imagine that he was an expensive little pet.
I'm sorry that happened to the person. I know it must be very upsetting. Tell her who ever she is not to give up. I can "kind of" relate to how that feels. I have a gorgeous little fellow that I had grown a heck of a coat on. Had him trained to work very nicely with me and my daughter. Was just about to put him in a UKC show and try him out but had a dental on him first. He needed 3 teeth pulled. Well a long story short, his ear went down the next day. Is still down no matter what we have tried. We are now thinking there was "possibly" some nerve damage done from "something" relating to the tooth that was extracted on that side (top). We've consulted with alot of different people and that's the most logical opinion we have been given. We know we'll never show him but boy do we love him just the same.

In this case it wasn't the breeder's fault, it was the newbie's, so in a hurry to get out there with a top named kennel dog, she didn't know what she was doing. The new owner did a lot of fast talking and got the breeder to agree on the sale, however, there was not guarantee of it being a show dog on the bill of sale/contract.

[k2p1e]

For me I need to trust the breeder 100%, where I am new into the world of showing yorkies I trust these guys to give me advice, to pick and choose what is best.
When I contacted Laurie from Nik Nak I told her I was not requesting a pup, which I was not. I was only looking for information, where to start.
She was fabulous!!! In less then 1 hour on the phone, I had learned so much!!!

I am in no hurry at all. (Things are just strating to calm down. My 2 year old and 5 week old are just starting to go back into a routine).
Betty Anne Durrer had a male available, of course I adored him isntantly, but the timing was not right, he was not showy but rather shy...Laurie advised me to start with a female and I am taking her advise. I am still learning, I have an idea (not set in stone) of the type of yorkie I like.
I want to be sure that this is 100% what i want to do and I want to do it right therefore I am waiting.

I would have a problem paying show price and no gurarantee of show quality.
I found hat the prices do range, I am expecting to pay around $1500-2500 for a show quality dog.

[DazzlinYT]

I disagree on starting with a female (though that's what mardelin did, and it worked for her, lol!) I think starting with a male is the way to go...

1. A breeder is more willing to part with a really nice male over an equally nice female.
2. You get more "time" to work with and finish a male, you don't have to worry about the hormones, going light, blowing coat, emotions of heats..etc.
3. I find males have more show attitude and are more showy in general and easier for a newby to learn the ropes with.
4. Once you've finished your boy, it will be much easier to find the RIGHT female to go with him, and start on the next CH as more people will take you seriously and realize you are going to do what you say.. thus more will be willing to trust you with a bitch.

Just my 2 cents worth!

[Mardelin]

Originally Posted by DazzlinYT

I disagree on starting with a female (though that's what mardelin did, and it worked for her, lol!) I think starting with a male is the way to go...

1. A breeder is more willing to part with a really nice male over an equally nice female.
2. You get more "time" to work with and finish a male, you don't have to worry about the hormones, going light, blowing coat, emotions of heats..etc.
3. I find males have more show attitude and are more showy in general and easier for a newby to learn the ropes with.
4. Once you've finished your boy, it will be much easier to find the RIGHT female to go with him, and start on the next CH as more people will take you seriously and realize you are going to do what you say.. thus more will be willing to trust you with a bitch.

Just my 2 cents worth!

Becki,

I started with a female, because I didn't know any better. Had never had a boy in the house before. As you recall, I got Charmer 1st, but his coat was so, so slow growing he had to wait. Then came Go-Go.

I do agree with you though, if you are new, a boy is much better to start with. They are more consistent and even tempered. They do love to please. You don't have to rush with finishing them as you do girls. You don't have to contend with the "SEASONS" as you do with girls, mood changes, going brainless, etc. My preferance is boys though.

The one thing that I do recommend is what was recommended to me. If you have a really nice dog, work with a handler. How do I explain this......it was told to me that a newbie, unless they know what they're doing can ruin a show dog. I did this in the beginning of Go-Go's career, but did travel with the handler to learn as much as I could about handling. I did finish Go-Go, but it took me longer, because I was new and didn't understand how moody she could be and how to get around those moods.

[Mardelin]

Originally Posted by DazzlinYT

I disagree on starting with a female (though that's what mardelin did, and it worked for her, lol!) I think starting with a male is the way to go...

1. A breeder is more willing to part with a really nice male over an equally nice female.
2. You get more "time" to work with and finish a male, you don't have to worry about the hormones, going light, blowing coat, emotions of heats..etc.
3. I find males have more show attitude and are more showy in general and easier for a newby to learn the ropes with.
4. Once you've finished your boy, it will be much easier to find the RIGHT female to go with him, and start on the next CH as more people will take you seriously and realize you are going to do what you say.. thus more will be willing to trust you with a bitch.

Just my 2 cents worth!

Becki,

I started with a female, because I didn't know any better. Had never had a boy in the house before. As you recall, I got Charmer 1st, but his coat was so, so slow growing he had to wait. Then came Go-Go.

I do agree with you though, if you are new, a boy is much better to start with. They are more consistent and even tempered. They do love to please. You don't have to rush with finishing them as you do girls. You don't have to contend with the "SEASONS" as you do with girls, mood changes, going brainless, etc. My preferance is boys though.

The one thing that I do recommend is what was recommended to me. If you have a really nice dog, work with a handler. How do I explain this......it was told to me that a newbie, unless they know what they're doing can ruin a show dog. I did this in the beginning of Go-Go's career, but did travel with the handler to learn as much as I could about handling. I did finish Go-Go, but it took me longer, because I was new and didn't understand how moody she could be and how to get around those moods.

[k2p1e]

DO you mean ruin them because you do not know how to deal with them when they are being stubborn or understanding what they need to make them show better?

I worked with a handler in the show I was in, Barb was fabulous (when we were done she gave us a huge applause even though she was the only one it was still appreciated!). She said to watch the other handlers, pref handlers and owner handlers, look at who was winning. She said that showing is a dance, every step counts, be fluid, do not draw attneiton to you but rather melt inot the background so the show is your dog. How you move will affect you dog.