Question about coat color
 

I'm sorry to inundate - I have searched the forum and haven't found anything pertaining to this: the YTCA updated their disqualifications saying that a dog can only be disqualified if it a solid color, unusual combination of colors,
or parti-colors. It mentioned that it can take 3 or more years for a coat to mature. So, my question is .. is there a way to know that the coat on my Yorkie will turn blue? I mean, what I'm trying to say is when I start entering her in about a year, and she's still black .. then that is undesirable, right? Help, I'm confused. :confused:

What is difficult to understand is that while the standard specifically addresses color and the DQ, we present our dogs for evaluation to an AKC Judge and each judge's interpretation of the standard is different. I will say that I have a male that did not break color until the age of two.

So many things come into play when your pup is morphing into their final adult coat.

However, I'm interpreting from your post as that you don't plan to enter your girl intil she is a year, right? I would suggest you enter her sooner. While you train outside the ring, there is no training like the actual ring. The ring assits you in the final decison of whether your dog has the makings of a show dog.

Thank you for that - I get that every judge may interpret standards differently than others. That makes sense. The only reason I said a year from now is because an exibitor/breeder that I've been emailing a little bit said she doesn't show anything under year. I guess since she's seasoned and knows what is definite show quality and what isn't then I guess that would be make sense. I hadn't thought of the real show ring as training. Thanks for the additional perspective and insight.

I read somewhere, and am not sure if this is true - maybe you could clarify; that Yorkies that have a bluish tint to their skin means their coat will turn the same way? Is that wrong?

Usually you can tell by the time they are a year old if they will be the proper color. Some yorkies take longer to clear. When a yorkie starts to 'break' it will usually first be noticeable on their shoulders. You can part the hair and looking at it in the light for signs of the shiny steel blue color. If a pup breaks to early there is a chance it will be to light but not always. You have to know your bloodlines. Coat texture is very important also. From my observations it seems that some of the darker dogs are more of a modified silk and not the true silk that is desirable. You have to consider the facial color also. I prefer the shaded gold as called for in the standard vs the orangish gold or reddish gold that some yorkies have. There are so many variations that seem to be acceptable. What is very undesirable is to have black hairs intermingled with the gold. When a pup is breaking properly the roots will usually turn gray on the head and as the pup gets older the gray will turn to gold.

A yorkie with a cottony coat will sometime break late but the color is what is referred to as a 'clerical' gray. The coat will not have the proper silky texture. I find one of the most useful things in determining if the coat will be silky is the color of the eye shine in pictures. If the eye shine is red or orange then most likely the pup won't have a silky coat. If the eye shine is yellow then the coat might be more of modified coat, it can go either way and if the eye shine is green or even blue then most likely the coat will be silky.

If possible it would be nice if you could have your puppy evaluated by an experienced show breeder. There is so much more to consider beside just the coat and color. Proper conformation is essential and the attitude of the dog.

Bluish tint is an indicator that the dog will retain color, however, I've seen dogs with the blue tint to the skin stay black. Another area to look at is the pubic area of adog....if it's black with no indication of changing color....pretty good chance the dog will remain black and soft coated. Most black coated dogs are soft coated. I've only seen or felt one or two black dog that had a true silk coat. Once you've felt this coat you never forget it.

Now if a dog has a pinkish skin it's a pretty good indicator the dog will go light.

What you need to do is obtain the illustrated standard, which shows you how to recognize the correct color pattern on a dog.

If a dog breaks color too young, it's a pretty good indicator that a dog will go light. I prefer that a dog doesn't begin to break color until about 10 months of age. And then I prefer the blue bleeds through, not start changing at the topline.

As far as waiting till a dog is a year and in coat. If you plan to do this prior to sending the dog out with a handler, it's what I would recommend. However, I'd begin to take the dog in the ring as a pup for proper training....getting it use to the sights and sounds of the show venue, getting use to being in the ring with other dogs. Giving the dog a chance to mature and love the ring. I've seen too many owners hold their dogs back until they were in full coat and their dog hated the ring.....

Thank you for your input, the both of you. I have signed up for conformation classes that start in a couple of weeks so that I can learn about handling myself. BJH thank you for your input about the eyeshine. I didn't know what that was and did a quick YT search and found several examples. I am excited to go home from work and try that out to see what happens.

If her coat turns out to be cottony, I will still want to do the training and take her to shows, so that I can still learn for a future prospect. Do you think that other exibitors will turn their nose up or judge because I didn't bring a dog that didn't have the correct coat texture?

I have discovered a breeder/exhibitor in my town (actually just lives about 3 miles from me!) and I hope to meet her soon. I would love to see her dogs and have her look at mine as well.

Anything you can do to perfect your handling skills.

If your pup does turn out with a cotton coat (oh! by the way a silk coat reflects light, you can usually tell about 4 months of age as the new adult coat begins coming in) you will obtain knowledge and handling skills. I don't think exhibitors will turn their nose up. I would hope that they would not attempt to assess your dog unless you ask them to. A judge will not turn their nose up, but will provide you input.

Good luck and go for it....

Just curious, based on your screen name. And you have not posted a pic of your baby, yet! Tsk, tsk! Is your puppy a Biewer?

I really don't think it is, since she describes her dog as black at this point. And she is asking about what age the black turns to blue.

She may not want to post a pic of her pup. I never post pics of my prospects.

Haha, no - I have two Yorkies and a Biewer. =) I should post pics! I am not home right now, but I will when I get home. I don't mind to show my puppy - in fact, maybe you could give me some input about you think of her. I know you wouldn't be able to say much since you can touch and feel her, but any comments are welcome. My adult Yorkie is black and tan and we keep her in a puppy cut, but my Biewer is a little tiny fart - just 2 lbs. 14 oz. She has the most beautiful coloring - but I'm going to assume that she has a modified silk coat? Her hair is very long and it is silkyish, but mats and tangles easily. Am I correct in saying this?
(BTW - I took both of them to a groomer for the first time ever a couple weeks ago and she CUT the long flowing hair on top of her head to half length without telling me. When I took out her topknot I almost DIED. She also cut a little too much on the sides where it was touching the ground, now it's about an inch shorter and she cut hair on the legs. She did an exceptional job grooming them, esp my Yorkie, but should have asked about cutting her hair.)

I hadn't thought of this until just now .. I think I will start practicing on my little Biewer girl hair wrapping. Hahaha, she won't know what in the heck I'm doing to her. LOL

Mardelin - have you ever seen someone bring in a cotton coat dog to show? You mentioned the coat reflecting light, and her hair does do that. Its very shiny, esp after I give her a bath.

A coat should reflect light and it should be evident even in moonlight. The coat should be cool to the touch. And when lifted up with a brush it out and let it go it should drop right back into place

Yes, cotton coats have been taken into the ring. And remember a cotton coat can be a dark steel blue and not only black.

I hope you do post photos!

Not a superstition at all, just something I don't do. A personal non-practice.

I do think Donna has posted photos, so I think it's just a personal preference.

Good going. The best way to start out on the right foot is to find a great mentor. A person that will guide you every step of the way.

You're right tho! I typically don't post show prospects either and actually this was the first time I did LOL...I was just excited about this litter LOL...I will typically post Radar pics or winning pics but usually show prospects aren't posted. And Mary your right personal choices and I like your choice LOL :)

Egads! Pepper (the puppy) has green and blue sheen in every picture! Good start!

I wasn't interested in resizing a bunch of pictures and uploading them, so I started a flickr album. I would love your comments on my little ragamuffins! =) Flickr: biewerdiva's Photostream The adult yorkie is Pepper's mom. I tried to take good pictures of the shiny coat. I've started brushing every day and using a lusterizer leave in conditioner. I know I have no idea what the heck I'm doing with the stand/stack -- I'm just trying to get her used to standing up and she is freely standing while I brush her, so I feel its partially a success. I will learn more about stacking when my conf. class starts. =)

She is cute. How much does she weigh? Is that mom in the first two pictures? She is pretty. Pepper does look like she will have a silky coat. It is hard to evaluate conformation from a photo but some things you need to watch in her movement would be her tail set and tail carriage. It is important they learn to carry their tail up when moving. I have seen many of beautiful yorkie not win because they would be scared in the show ring and not carry their tail up. Attitude is very important in the show ring. You definitely should have her evaluated. Please keep us posted on her.

I'm not an exhibitor, but I also noticed her tail is down. I wonder just how accurate that eye shine theory is. My Nicco also shines blue/green and he is cottony coated. I look forward to watching your progress with her! I'm also going to my first show - this Friday in San Antonio! Can't wait!

I don't have a way to weigh her at my house, but about 3 weeks ago she weighed about 3.2 lbs. I am visiting the breeder's house today and will get her weighed there. The pretty one you mentioned is actually my Biewer, India. =) The mother is GG, the adult Yorkie which is pictured last.

As far as her tail, I am working on that while we are standing on the counter. While she is playing and running around it is up, and also when we are walking on a leash. I wish I had a way to record video because when we are practicing leash time, which she is picking up really quickly, she prances and put a lot of attitude in her step it seems. Very cute. I read on the internet that if I make the grooming table/counter area a fun place by playing with toys it will make her more confident of being up there, so I will start doing that.

Thank you very much for your input. I am going to ask this local person that I found if she wouldn't care to evaluate my girl and see what she says. If she turns out to not be show quality, I'm going to try very hard to not be disappointed, but I am still going to do the classes and enter her at shows for my learning's sake. =)

The eye shine of Nicco in your album looks more gold to me. Gold eye shine can go either way. He might have a modified silk coat. Also I am not sure how accurate the eye shine theory is on a young puppy. I am planning to going to San Antonio also. It will be nice to meet you there.

It is not unusual for young pups to have their tail down when standing. Here is a link to some video from the YTCA specialty that was held in New York earlier this year. You can order the video if you like. This link shows the judging of the dogs (males). Make the video full screen and you can really study the conformation and movement of the dogs. I would say that most of these dogs are from the top show lines from all over the country. Needless to say many of them will become champions.
Yorkshire Terrier Club of America 2011 National Specialty On-Demand Streaming Video

You said your girl has a lot of champions in her pedigree. Do you know what her lines are and what generation the champions start? Has her breeder ever shown? It sounds like she might be a good size for showing.

The tail being down is nothing to worry about, she's young and as she gains confidence and her owner works with her that tail will come out. It's all in the training.

The eye shine color is something that some old timers chock up as old wifes tales. And I won't disagree with them as they know best.

I still take a picture of each of my pups, the turqouis/blue shine has always proven to me a silk coat. I only have one soft coated female that I purchased as a pet several years ago and her eye shine is reddish brown....

I know what you are saying. Some people swear by it. Just from my own experience, mine that have the silky coats have the green/blue eye shine. I have only had two that had the red eye shine and they definitely had cottony coats. Some of mine have had gold eye shine and they were more of a modified silk.

I strongly suggest that you order this DVD. Although, the exhibitors in the DVD are highly experienced exhibitor/handlers/breeders there are some wonderful tips on how to train to ensure your pup has a good head start.

Yorky Club Magazine - United by passion for Yorkies [Product details]

I too have seen some photos where it looks gold. What about this one at 12 weeks? Can eye shine change as they grow?

I think the eye shine can change to some degree as they grow. Like Mary said it is not a proven science. As for myself, I am happier to see the green shine vs the red shine. If if a dog has the green shine, they might have a silky coat but they can still go to light.

Here a picture of my Rebel at 4 months, you can easily see the shine in his eyes.

I agree, this is a great dvd. It has been very helpful for me as a new exhibitor.

WOW I loved watching that video! Watching the puppies was so funny - its reassuring to see that some aren't so perfect in the ring and puts my mind at ease a little. The one that that little asian girl was handling was completely defiant on that table.

Her mother has some champions in her lines but they are serveral generations back. Dad is champion sired and is loaded up with champions. The breeder is going to email me a copy of her sire's pedigree this evening - I meant to pick up a copy when I visited today, but forgot. She has never shown before but has lots of very great quality Yorkies.

Btw, I weighed Pepper at her house and she is actually 2.9 lbs at 14 weeks. I don't know where I got that 3.2 from before.

OKAY -- NOW.. I've gone and done something real dumb, I'm sure of it. While at the breeder's house today, she brings out this dog. A boy, born this past August with champions out the yang. He has a beautiful, thin silky coat that is already about 2 inches long. He has this delicate little face and feet that are just to die for and weighs 2 lbs 14 oz today. She said she didn't have the heart to sell him, and when I told her of my interest in learning to show, she wanted to know if I was interested in taking him for a while. Well, of course I didn't turn her down.

Now I have no idea what to do! There is a little issue though. He's a little shy. He's fine around the other dogs, but his body tenses up when you pick him up. Maybe its just because I'm new to him and he needs to get used to me. While I'm sitting here on the couch, he's laying contentedly next to me and even laying his head on my leg. Maybe he will get over this little apprehensiveness once he gets to know me. I've attached a couple of cell phone pictures.

I may just give it a week or so -- if he isn't receptive to leash training at least then I think I might have to give him back.

Thank you for the tip! This would be perfect.