Docking Tails On Imports For Showing

[SoCalyorkiLvr]

Originally Posted by yorkieangel

I applaud you for making the decision to show with full tail. We all want to be winners but it takes courage to be among pioneers in getting standards changed. Show people have to strut those doggies with all other aspects perfect and start getting wins and I'm sure before we allknow it things will change. A few good people and dogs breaking the ice is going to work WONDERS in the show world. Before you know it favorites will become those beautiful yorkies with the flowing tails...just you WATCH...LOL

You Go Girlfriend!! You are my new hero!!! I think this is wonderful and I agree that pioneers like you are what this breed needs!! Good luck and i wan to see the show pics too...in fact I would come to a show to cheer you and your babies on!!

[alpayton]

Originally Posted by yorkiemom1970

I just read this and had to elaborate. I agree with you 100% ! I also imported to get a "type" and a "look" that I fell in love with. Although she is not with me anymore and is waiting for me at the Rainbow bridge, I do have 4 of her children that I plan to carry on her type in my lines. I had hoped to produce my own show-potential from her, I did get a nice one her first breeding, but didn't grow big enough to show in my opinion. I've got 3 babys now from her and am just basically keeping my fingers crossed. (one is rather small ) but 2 are keeping my hopes up. If they do not turn out to be what I'm hoping for, I WILL import again and keep trying. I have NOTHING against the show breeders in the US, but I do have my own likes/dislikes. Not that I am saying that anyone's yorkies are not beautiful, I have a few of what I refer to as the "english type" yorkie, but I have aquired my own taste for something else. I have never shown in a pointed akc show. I have attended classes and have "experimented" at an akc fun match. Someday, you may see me out there...but for now, I'm still working on establishing my program to get what I want. The rest will all fall into place in the future if it's what God wants me to do. As far as docking the tails, I wish it wasn't done. My dog that was imported was docked, but the tail was left much longer than most of the breeders in the US do their tail lengths. I liked it much better and have since started leaving my pups tails a bit longer than I normally would, yet still being docked. 3 different people in the past have told me (in a very nice way) they did not care for my "type" of yorkie. Maybe I don't care for their's either, but I'd never tell them that. My reason is because we all like what we like and that's what makes us individuals. I do not have to like what you have and you do not have to like what I have, but I respect anyone who has a passion for dogs no matter what. Thanks for letting me vent; it felt good

I'm right with you on liking the longer dockings. I would NEVER tell someone that I didn't care for their likes. My goodness. That's like telling someone that they didn't care for the way that they were wearing their hair that day or something. How rude! Everyone's entitled to their own opinion....but my lord...keep it to themselves!

I believe I will be leaving puppy tails alone or at least docking long when the time comes in THIS household. But that's just ME!

[chattiesmom]

AKC is a "club" and has rules and regulations. If a docked tail is part of the AKC standard, then it is their perogative to ban dogs from being shown with a full tail. How does that work in countries that ban docking? I would imagine that AKC could and probably should rethink the breed standard OR completely ban the showing of ALL docked tail breeds in these countries.

I am not arguing about to dock or not to dock. I LOVE the long tails, it would be a much kinder world if we chose not to mutilate our animals for the sake of appearances, however, I chose to fall in love with Yorkies and the breed standard states docked tails...... maybe it would be possible for their to be an option..... then it would be up to the judge's discretion to decide if he/she whether or not they liked docked tails and act accordingly.

I propose that those who would prefer LONG TAILS .....
could petition the AKC, refuse to show AKC, refuse to register AKC. Eventually AKC would be forecd to listen to a the voice of the multitude.

[BamaFan121s]

Since this thread started with a question asking for advice, I will try to redirect this conversation in that direction as it has turned into yet another ugly debate over the ethics of tail docking.

Melanie-I commend you on your decision to go against the norm and do what YOU feel is in the best intrest of your babies...I believe that what is in the best interest of our Yorkies, regardless to the specific topic, is best decided with the final say being at the sole discretion of each individual owner, not a group as a whole that has gotten nowhere with an ongoing, never ending debate. Your babies are truly beautiful, as I am sure you already are aware. Tails or no tails, I think I speak for everyone here when I wish you the best of luck in the ring.

Again, this thread was started by someone looking for advice to aid her in making a decision. The original poster stated MANY posts ago that she has gathered enough information and has made her decision, therefor placing the topic of this thread (rather than the debate that has spawned) said an done. I feel further debate on the matter would only result in yet another locked thread and would not accomplish anything positive.

[chattiesmom]

If you are planning to breed, show and sell AKC Yorkies and the AKC standard requires docked tails, then dock the tails.

If you are only concerned about the well being of your beloved dogs, then by all means DO NOT DOCK THE TAILS.

[yorluvr]

Melanie, the Yorkshire terrier standard states: " Docked to a medium length and carried slightly higher than the level of the back". pg 474 The Complete Dog Book by the AKC.

You have been in the dog show world long enough to know you must have the tails docked to show in the US. Occasionally you may find a judge who will put up an undocked tail.However, that is usually with a handler and a judge they do well under. But many judges will even EXCUSE the dog, esp breeder judges or will withhold ribbons. Without docking, you will find yourself frustrated, esp if you lose to an inferior dog who is put up because they meet the standard of having a docked tail.

Talk with the vets at the KAH and have them preserve as much hair as possible. You may not be able to show they for awhile till the tails heal and some hair grows back, but at least you will not be entering your dogs just for points for others.
Julie

[YorkieRini]

Originally Posted by chattiesmom

If you are planning to breed, show and sell AKC Yorkies and the AKC standard requires docked tails, then dock the tails.

If you are only concerned about the well being of your beloved dogs, then by all means DO NOT DOCK THE TAILS.

I agree!!

Mel, you do what you feel comfortable doing. I would personally NOT dock a tail if the procedure wasn't the new Laser method. Too much pain IMHO. If you do decided to do it, I agree waiting till the puppy teeth are to be extracted.

You are aware of the standard. You've proven by going in the ring and winning. You do what you feel comfortable doing!

How about this, take the girls in the ring and get some opinions. If the ONLY thing holding them back from winning is the tails then dock if not then don't...lolol.

[yorluvr]

Those that show know showing dogs is not a cheap hobby. entrys can get expensive. And if she has to hire a handler to show her dog, then there is more money involved. It's one thing to be a pioneer. It is another to consistently lose in the ring because you would not dock the tails.

[yorkieangel]

Originally Posted by yorluvr

Those that show know showing dogs is not a cheap hobby. entrys can get expensive. And if she has to hire a handler to show her dog, then there is more money involved. It's one thing to be a pioneer. It is another to consistently lose in the ring because you would not dock the tails.

Yes I agree and I'm sure that is part of what makes the decision HARD.

[yorluvr]

Melanie is aware of the competition in the area. We have some top handlers that show and can win with anything with 4 legs. Now, add a new handler with a yorkie with undocked tail, and it will make it even harder to win. The person from Canada that said her dog got 4th place. I don't show to get 4th place, esp if there are only 4 dogs in the class. Sometimes it happens, but that is not the goal. Unfortunately having the best dog means nothing to some judges.
Julie

[YorkieRini]

Originally Posted by yorluvr

Melanie is aware of the competition in the area. We have some top handlers that show and can win with anything with 4 legs. Now, add a new handler with a yorkie with undocked tail, and it will make it even harder to win. The person from Canada that said her dog got 4th place. I don't show to get 4th place, esp if there are only 4 dogs in the class. Sometimes it happens, but that is not the goal. Unfortunately having the best dog means nothing to some judges.
Julie

Yea, you are so right about that. I am new to showing so I am open to 'paying my way to learn', meaning, I am willing to show and pay the money to get professional opinions. But Melanie is farther a head than I. It may not be something she would want to 'waste' her money on.

Thanks for your insight Julie! I can tell by your post you are very experienced in showing. I am Irene and I am a sponge ready to suck all the info on showing up..lololol

Welcome to YT by the way!

[yorluvr]

Thanks for the welcome Irene. Yes, I have been showing since 1992. I have won and lost, but I always present my dogs to their best. The very political judges....I just don't enter under them. But I want to think my dogs are competitive when I walk into the ring as far as the standard.

Many countries in Europe no longer dock tails. However, that is how the American standard is worded....to be docked. Since it is the parent club who sets the standard, not AKC, I don't look for any changes in the immediate future to allow undocked tails. It will not be easy for an owner/handler to finish a dog or bitch with a tail that is not docked. A dog in full coat, with a top handler will probably get it done for a few thousand $$.

And although I use a handler from time to time, the fun of showing is doing it myself. I am proud to say I had the #1 bitch in the US in 2004, and she was owner/handled all the way.
Julie

[DevineMissM]

I have not read all the responses to this question yet. But I will offer my opinion. I would never dock a tail on an older dog. Doesn't matter what the show conformation is or how badly I wanted to win. When one docks a 3 to 5 day old puppy it is just that....docking as the bones are not hardened yet. But when one "docks" the tail of an older dog is it amputation pure and simple. Along with this is the pain of the bone healing. I personnally just have real problems doing this to an older puppy or adult dog for the sake of winning. Yes I am a show breeder and still feel strongly against this procedure for older dogs. I had a Yorkie male bred by myself. I docked his tail as to the normal length of a Yorkie docked tail at 5 days old. But his tail grew weird! It ended up being a bit TOO LONG. Other breeders and even pro handlers told me to re-dock his tail at about 9 months of age if I wanted to win. I refused! He needs too more wins to gain his AKC championship! It may be difficult but I believe if we continue to show Yorkies with tails the judges will eventually look at the overall quality of the dog......and not just his/her tail. After all the Yorkshire Terrier standard does NOT have an DQ's as other breeds do. What wins on any given day is totally in the eye of the judge on that particular day.
In my opinion I just would never do a tail amputation on an older dog. One should consider these problems BEFORE importing such a Yorkie.

[DevineMissM]

Originally Posted by YorkieRose

This is what I learned from Johnny Robinson of Trivar fame....there is a big difference between a show potential pup and a show quality pup? Many times people say they have a show "quality", when they actual mean a show "potential"..a potential is just that, one who has the potential to show, but may not develop into a show dog for many reasons.
A show quality is one who is actually ring ready and ready to win...I think these terms have been forgotten or misused in the last 10 years. Breeders advertize show quality and the pup is 4 or 12 months, but not ring ready, age, coat or training-wise. It is actually a "potential"..I know I am nit picking, but at one time it was important.

DITTO ditto ditto. I believe you are right on target!! Show potential and show quality are NOT interchangeable phases. Thanks.

[YorkieRini]

Originally Posted by DevineMissM

DITTO ditto ditto. I believe you are right on target!! Show potential and show quality are NOT interchangeable phases. Thanks.

I never thought others would consider them one and the same. Very interesting and thanks for the reminder Pat!!