Cockers are not hard to potty train, we raised and showed Cockers for 5 years, I had over 6 at one time, and everyone was potty train, smart, and sweet as can be never would hurt anything, and yes they were around my children when they were toddlers.

I know that there are quite a few that do testing. I am one of them and if you were lucky enough to have one of my dogs, you would get to see all of the records.

Now, do the parti/biewer breeders do testing and if so for what?

I know many that health test also and I health test myself but I don't breed much so therefore not many will own many of my dogs. I just don't trust many people in the first place. And when I do breed my dogs the pups will be spayed and neutered before leaving my home and they will also be BAT tested and have a complete blood panel done before leaving to their new home as well. And that means they won't leave until they are 6 months old. But to be honest I don't think I'd place a pet of mine to anyone on YT unless I know ya personally and that means met in person and have made a home visit.
Donna

I agree with you Donna. I keep what I want for show and sell the rest as pets.

I found I am able to download the book down to my E-reader. When I was looking through books to download I came across this book published in 1897:

The Animal Kingdom:based upon the writings of the eminent naturalists, Audubon, Wallace, Brehm, Wood and others.
Author is Hugh Craig

"The Yorkshire Terrier is a cross between a mongrel Skye and a Black-and-Tan Terrier. The coat is very long and silky, and abundant over the whole body, head, legs, and tail; its color is a silvery blue, the ears and legs are of a dark tan shade, and the long beard is of a golden tan, the top of the head almost fawn-colored. This dog is a modern invention and is only fit for a toy"

And that was his only reference to the Yorkshire Terrier. Wonder which naturalist writings he got that info from!

And the question exists on why the parti's can hurt the existence of the Yorkshire Terrier as we know it today!...Genetics is the answer!

You can show and champion a yorkie that has LP or liver shunts in the line, but not a healthy one with white markings.<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
I was responding to the above statement. How in the world would the parti owner know that his or her dog comes from lines clear of disease. The dog with white markings has the same problems in the lines they come from as the blue and tan yorkies. You have no idea, without testing, how healthy and/or sound your parti yorkie is. As you so proudly point out, they come out of normal yorkies so you get the good with the bad. So why don't the parti color breeders step up and test your dogs? You'd be one up on those who don't test.

I do not breed partis. So you would have to ask them. My yorkies are tested and so are their offsprings. I can only state what I know for a fact and the three yorkie I bought from ytca members were not health tested and I seen no health records on their partents either. I did all the health testing on them, never showed or bred them and altered all three of them.

Liked I stated you would have to ask them! I have been in the ring and watched yorkies with bad knees being shown by ytca members. I owned two akc championed sired yorkies, bred them to one another and received a liver shunt puppy. Needless to say they both were altered. The puppy was treated and the external shunt was fixed and the puppy has lived a healthy normal life with his new family.

To be honest I have stated over and over again the ytca should police their own, before they worry about the non ytca members. Because I know for a fact they are not all ethical!

Really :rolleyes:

that makes everything you say look really believable.

What does testing have to do with YTCA? CHIC is the Canine Health Information Center. OFA is the Orthopedic Foundation for Animals. Neither are in any way affiliated with YTCA. And of all the yorkie litters born each year YTCA breeders are responsible for a very small percentage. It would be great if every YTCA member had a CHIC number for each dog they bred. But to sit back and say non YTCA members don't have to test is another reason this breed is in such trouble.

Genetics? Please do elaborate on this a little more.

I do health test my dogs and their offsprings. I am no member of the ytca nor would I ever want to be. I am sick to death of their double standards! They whine about all the byb breeders and the junk they produce, well I have seen with my own eyes the junk some ytca members have produced. I NEVER STATED NON YTCA MEMBERS DO NOT HAVE TO TEST THEIR DOGS! I believe all breeders should have to test their dogs and all the offsprings they produce! But if all the ytca members are not health testing their dogs, you sure cannot expect all the non members to health test their dogs! As I stated Double Standards!

Wow.. I haven't been on all day.. I thought you all were done rehashing the same things over and over..guess not!

I skimmed some of the latests post and someone mentioned that a BIEWER breeder said that if traditional colored puppies were born in a litter, they would be registered as Yorkies and the Parti colored Biewers would be registered as Biewers.. Well, I have said that as that is what is done. You are registering a color of a dog.. just like Black/tan or Blue/Gold.. in Germany, the country of origin, that is how they register the Biewers and the splitters (carriers).. they are both yorkies, just different colors! It is a color designation.

To those of you who think we are all busy, sneaking our parti lines into "your" traditionally colored lines, just want you to know that personally, I ALWAYS neuter my males before they leave my home and sell all the females on a strict spay contract and they are ONLY registered if I keep them within my own program or they are placed with a trusted friend. I have only sold 3 puppies with breeding rights, one was a carrier.. in his contract it is VERY clear who he can be bred to and that all the puppies are to be sold as PET ONLY unless they go back into our breeding program. I am VERY careful that my Biewer (Parti) lines don't get into the general public, I keep my lines, Biewer and carrier very very close.

Also, I'm not sure where the idea that we are doing this just to SELL puppies comes from or that we are making buckets of money selling these "carriers".. I sell my carriers for the exact same price as my friends sell their yorkies... however, mine are already neutered so I make even LESS than all my friends who sell their traditionally colored yorkies intact. I either Bile test or do a complete liver panel on all of my puppies before they leave my home.. if they are not bile acid tested before they leave, I offer to pay for the test and recommend it be done around 6 months old.. I do NOT xray hips and knees.. not sure at 11 or 12 weeks old if that has value, but I'll check with my vet for his recommendations on that.. all the puppies are checked over by my vet and also by the new owners vet per my contract. All of my breeders knees are certified at 1 year old prior to breeding and all of my adults are bile acid tested by 1 year old. I am a VERY typical Biewer breeder, most of us do these types of things before we sell our puppies.. I know many breeders and I don't know ONE that is pumping out enough puppies to rake in all this money some of you think is out there.. just not sure where you get that idea as it certainly isn't based in any fact.

I have very specific goals in mind for my dogs.. I do show them in any venue I can.. I will be showing more carriers as yorkies, because that is what they are. The registry I use has a seperate code for the carriers so there is a way to track our dogs. I don't especially care if the YTCA dislikes our Parti yorkies at the present time .. we know what we have, we know what we have to do and we will do it. We will show our dogs to get them out amongst the public and the judges. I have had very favorable discussions with judges regarding my carriers and what we are trying to accomplish.. There are many MANY traditional yorkie breeders who are interested in these tri colored dogs, and that number will only grow... I know many personally who are members of YTCA who have asked about purchasing them (breeders and handlers) .. I will not sell to them as they are breeders and I don't sell breeding dogs to people I don't personally know.. but I refer them on to others. I believe eventually the day will come where attitudes will change, it's happening now..

-Diana :animal-pa

So are you mixing partis with biewers? Wasnt clear by your post.

I'm very sorry to hear about your liver shunt puppy. That is worst thing, for any human to watch a yorkie suffer. I don't think any person can stand this. No matter how far apart we may be, seeing any animal suffer is painful to each of us. Liver shunt is horrible. I'm sorry you've suffered watching your yorkie suffer.

YTCA is not a policing organization. This is not the mission. Maybe this is some of the confusion for people.

Let me ask this again because my question was not answered whatsoever! I don't want to know HOW YOU GET A WHITE DOG.

I'm asking about that bitch that you said is from the Durrer line and the sire specifically. Who said cull them? Who signed off on the registration? I'm trying to figure out how in all of the hundreds of thousands of liters born, I've only heard of this happening twice. Both times were here on yorkietalk.

I am in the process of health testing all my breeding stock. One traditional has already been eliminated and was petted out. Of my 2 partis the female has perfect BAT levels, chem and liver panels all within normal limits and prelim xrays were great but she is not yet 2 so OFA not done yet. I am also waiting for a CERF clinic in my area as the last one that was scheduled for August was cancelled. The other females blood work is great but have not done prelim xrays as she is just 6 months old and so have a ways to wait for her. I just acquired a 3 month old girl that has not had any testing yet due to age....Of my 3 standards 2 are 4 months old and so of course nothing yet and the other is 9 months and due at 1 year for BAT and other bloodwork. As stated I am working on CERF for all but the clinics are every 3-6 months up here and not easy to get to sometimes or they get cancelled.
I did have Penn hip done on my oldest parti girl and her scores were 0.10 and 96% if you know these scores you know they are awesome. This testing is quite expensive but can be done as early as 4 months.
This testing along with heartworm, lyme, etc testing. Also preventative treatments, flea prevention, vaccinations and all vet care for 6-8 dogs runs me well over 10 K a year not counting quality dog food. Now I just began in the show arena with mine also so those costs are not added.
SO do I do testing..you bet your *** I do. I always have. How about the YTCA members on here and YOU?

I will add that in my last litter I did not BAT the pups. My vet does not recommend that at 12 weeks. I did however have them spayed and neutered prior to leaving, every one as they were all pet quality and sold as such. I have read on here lots of lay people recommending BAT on pups prior to placement which as stated has not been recommended by my vet so I will defer that at this point, but if and when my vet recommends it, it will be done. All my pups also leave with a 3 month supply of frontline and heartguard, have been vet checked, stool sample checked, and pre spoiled.
It does not stop with just testing the parents it continue into everything that is done as a breeder.

As far as I was told She had them DNA'd to get the puppies registered. I think she told me Ann told her to get rid of them.
The pedgree was posted awhile back so I am not sure what your asking about the sire and dam

. How about the YTCA members on here and YOU?[/QUOTE]

I health test, BAT test, chem panel, xray and check for LP and I'm a YTCA member :) And as I stated before, my pups will be BAT tested at 16 weeks and then again at 6 months before placed into a pet home as per Dr. Center's protocol! But then again, I don't breed much so doing all those tests aren't a problem for me at all and I'm happy to do it because Health is the #1 priority for me. And once again, I don't breed for pets only but to try and produce my next show dog but knowing not every litter I produce will produce that show dog but that is my goal for the future. In fact I haven't had a litter in 3 years and probably won't have one for another couple of years.

I am so sorry you had to go through this. Liver shunt is devasting and I wouldn't wish it on anyone. Knowing about what it does and knowing the experiences of it...and as I've stated over and over it's what one does within their breeding program when it happens that deems who is ethical and who is not. Just don't put all YTCA members in a catagory as unethical. One can only police their own breeding program.

Donna

I have breed traditional colored AKC yorkies to my Biewers in the past.. those are the carriers I spoke of in my post.. I will be breeding two of my Biewer females (German Parti colored yorkies) to my AKC Parti male this week (or next) as I have 4 in season right now. They will be registered as Biewer Pups, as all will be Parti colored. ( If any are held back for breeding) This is how new lines have always been added to the Biewer lines in Germany. There are many who believe the lines are diverse enough already, I am just not one that feels that way.

I also have a Carrier (Biewer mom, AKC dad) who will be bred with a Biewer male sometime this week.. her litter will have both traditionally colored and Parti colored pups.. If I hold any back, they will be registered depending on their color.. Biewer or Yorkie, just as has been done in the past in Germany.

I am doing this to benifit MY breeding program and a few of my friends.. any dogs that are not used for that purpose, will be sold as pets, at pet prices, spay or neutered and not registered. Of course, all the puppies will be tested at the same level as all the rest, loved the same and spoiled. No, this is not a money making proposition, but the health and well being of my puppies is my main concern.

Diana :animal-pa

Thank you Diana for explaining to everyone how that is done ............lots dont understand how you do that...........and in my opinion this is the ethical way to do it..........cause you are petting out all that you dont want for your own program.

Thank you so much for posting this!

What a coincidence....couldn't sleep last night, up at 3 AM...low and behold, this show was on. It's very fascinating and made me think a lot about dog breeding and just exactly what all within a dog is genetically altered by breeding for certain traits.

I've said before of my 3 yorkies, the one with the most terrier personality is Razz, my parti boy. My show breeder boy is timid, and Ruby my puppymill girl isn't quite as timid as Reno but no where near the terrier instinct that Razz has. Makes me wonder if by breeding to achieve that perfect blue/tan coat our yorkies may be losing that terrier instinct, which is one of the traits early breeders bred specifically for, because yorkie were originally ratters.

Nope, this is not what the implication was about. Nor is this what my posts were referring to.

I strongly disagree with the relevance that you are making and don't see any logic in this white dog to our standard whatsoever. Many feel it is a mixed breed of dog that is being bred with our blue and tan dogs. I support this logic.

And many of us stongly disagree with you and know we are not breeding mixed breed dogs.

We can go around and around, none of us are changing our positions on this and really, no new information is being presented either way. Your views will not change and neither will mine so I guess we just go about our own business and see how it turns out.

Diana :animal-pa

I guess this is what upsets me more, is the fact there are so many health issues in our breed! But it seems like it is more important to worry about the color of the healthy specimen, instead of worrying about all the health issues in our breed. I know there are parti breeders who do everything possible in producing excellent healthy litters and better what they have.

I use to be pro ytca all the way, but you can only be burnt and hurt so many times. I feel if you are the parent club, you should set an example and make sure all your members breed smart with health being the number 1 concern, not conformation. As they say follow by example.

And i know YTCA members that do the same thing! We can't police all YTCA members, hobby breeders, Parti Breeders ect. You've posted you've bought from a couple of YTCA members so now you know not to purchase from them and do more research for a good breeder. I know great breeders that show that are NOT members of the YTCA but they do show and I know some GREAT YTCA members.
I am a YTCA member and I'm trying to lead by example. Take what I say as to be the truth or ignore it, it's your choice. I still stand behind the YTCA and what it represents, even though some choice not too...they are the ones that have to live with the choices they make.

Donna

And I'm asking for proof that they are breeding a mixed breed dog with your blue and tans. So far all you've provided is innuendo.

That you fail to see that the white gene has been there since the beginning of the standard is your problem and not mine. It all comes down to genetics and what is expressed under what circumstances.

There are references to white yorkies well in to the 1800's. The fact that most of these dogs were culled from breeding programs doesn't negate the fact that the genes that created them were already there and passed on to other lines via their "correctly colored" siblings.