:clapsmile:clapsmile:clapsmile

:eek: Wow - Thank You Mary Ann!!! I've just been reading this off and on while cleaning and I must say that I was getting a little unnerved by the "tone" this person was taking.


No, I don't think coming on here without introducing yourself and giving some sort of insight as to why you're asking some personal questions is being misunderstood. You were offensive and rude! You were demanding and judgemental! You were disrespectful! These ladies have been on this forum for years and for you to come on here and question them about how long they've been newbies or experts.... You're the one with the ATTITUDE!

And the reason you can't find out too much about some of their lines is because they don't need to advertise it on the internet! If you really did some researching you would be able to figure out a few things.

I don't know why you have an issue with your dogs being from Europe. I have never heard anyone say anything negative on here about Eur/Mex/Can lines. :confused: They have beautiful lines.

The ball was terrific..caught about the last 25%..and we had a Bday party for Georgette all rolled into one...

I think it was both...from what I understand....

One of the best examples of a breeder recognizing the benefits of using other breeders quality studs is Bobbie Rothenbach. She went out for stud service to obtain Gator by using Renee's Charger...thus the name Renee'Gade...which everyone already knows...

One thing that bothers me just a little is when a show breeder says they will only breed champion to champion and then low and behold you start seeing dogs in the ring that are have not been bred champion to champion, only the sire is a champion. I have no problem with breeding champion males to quality bitches that are not championed. I just wish show breeders would be honest and just say they are very selective who they breed their dogs to rather than making blanket statements.

Now, moving on. I do have a breeding question that I would like some honest input on. I have heard from different show breeders that if your lines are getting on the light side then you should breed to a dark cottony or soft coated dog to bring in the dark steel blue. True or false?

Next question, are there dark cottony coated or soft coated dogs being shown that are actually becoming champions. Just curious.

Now, moving on. I do have a breeding question that I would like some honest input on. I have heard from different show breeders that if your lines are getting on the light side then you should breed to a dark cottony or soft coated dog to bring in the dark steel blue. True or false?

I would think that it would be preferable to breed to a dog from a line that runs dark. Hopefully you would than get the color without taking the risk of compromising texture.

That is what I would think too. If breeders introduce improper texture back into their bloodlines then you would have to worry about getting some pups that are not the right texture. The problem is that years ago I think there were more cottony coat being shown and bred so I think that is why it is still not always easy to get the right texture even when breeding silk to silk.

The yorkie was made up of so many different breeds and in the scheme of things hasn't been around for that long. This makes for more variances in the coat than in alot of breeds. I'm sure that a lot of soft coats have been bred in over time to acheive correct color and color placement, it's bound to come back and haunt us.

LuvndemYorkies...
 

Since you had so many questions for people who have already established reputations - I have a few for you.

I noticed you haven't put anything in your bio area. I'm sure you wouldn't mind sharing some information about yourself, now that you've entered into the conversation here.


[quote=LuvndemYorkies;2880182]Great thread,
Newbie - explain this what makes you a newbie and what makes you an expert.

So when are you the breeder of a line is it your line with one generation or does this go back to the original breeder who you borrowed/bought got the line from?

So how long have you all been showing and breeding?

Are you ranking as a newbie or an expert?

How many dogs have you CH from your line? And what is your kennel name?

or from others lines? What are those kennel names?

trying to figure out what is setting a newbie apart from an expert, the terms i hear you using here.

I don't find much in the way of trying to research the different breeders in this thread, which makes me confused,

if you were more than a newbie, wouldn't i find a history of your lines?

So are you all technically newbies? or ?[/QUOTE]

Please share your answers to the highlighted comments/questions.

Please forgive me for correcting you on correcting Brooklyn. I seem to have read your statement the same way she did. :rolleyes:

I'm really excited to read all about you. :D

First of all let me say....Of course when I started out my first bitch was NOT a champion and what I learned from that experience I wouldn't do it again, now mind you she did produce my first homebred champion :) However,I learned quickly from that experience I needed a CH worthy bitch for my foundation :) Then when I started over my breeding program I started back the correct way breeding CH to CH...aka CH Groveshire's Under the Radar to CH Myboy Camality Jane who by the way was specialed also and was in the top 10 when she was being shown and was #1 yorkie bitch in breed in 2005 :) I still have Radar who by the way was in the top 5 in breed in the USA in 2008 but am on the search for a show quality bitch so that is why I haven't bred in over 2 years because my search is for the right one and not something I have to do in a hurry because I want to continue to breed and show to the best representation I can....I have been in the show ring but have been showing Radar or for others while I am in search of the bitch that is worthy.
Now on to the question....I don't mind a modified silk coat (no it's not a soft coated dog) but the texture is more on the silk side but of course you want the true silk, which by the way Radar is a very true silky dog but a very true silk is a thin coat and takes forever to grow. Yes, some breeders in my opinion do bring in a soft coated yorkie to their breeding program to get a thicker silk coated dog, not to get color but to get a heavier silk which is what I would call a modified silk. Hard to explain the difference.
There are soft coated yorkies becoming champions but I don't see cotton coated as much anymore being shown as it is very very incorrect and most cotton coated dogs are black instead of a dark steel blue and with the DQ it's halted that. I see more soft coated in the ring than cotton coats.
I hope that helps answer your questions :)

Donna

I just have to add to this....I don't think you'll have Statford, Tyava or some of the other "Top" breeders making a blanket statement like this on YT or to those they don't know...I don't think I've heard the "TOP" reputable breeders make this statement...maybe you'll see a smaller show exhibitor make this statement more.....Barb I really don't know who you talk too and would be interesting to know where you get all this information LOL...

Let me add to your post Donna.

Breeder/exhibitors with smaller breeding programs are more selective and choose to breed Ch. to Ch., than breeder/exhibitors that have a larger program. Those larger programs have the option of more bitches that have the qualities of a show dog, but may not have liked being in the ring....should she not be used....I don't think so......Therefore, you see a pup in the ring that is Championed sired but not the dam....doesn't make her less qualified, but she can be a top producing bitch.

Then you have the situation that I ran into with my Tahlulah, lacking a 3 point Major, bred from a Ch. Sire and Ch. Bitch.......Came out winning, pointing at her first show and almost every show their after, taking a 4 point Major and the Dallas Fort Worth Toy Club, from the Bred By Class....however, circumstances in my life; my mother passing, me moving to California.....I ran out of time......she had to be bred as she was approaching 3 years old.....should I have kicked her to the curb, not used her and petted her out.....I think not....as she had all the attributes and qualities of a Champion.......

Asking a question why some breeder/exhibitors don't breed Ch. to Ch. one needs to be familiar with each and every breeder/exhibitor's practice and their reasons behind their decisions.

Donna, thanks for you input. Radar is beautiful, he has the type of coat I prefer.

Out of curiosity I looked at the champions that were entered in the roving specialty, counting the veterans, and out of the 20 champions entered, 5 had neither parent a champion, 7 had one parent that was championed and 8 had both parents championed. I guess my point is that I feel a dog/bitch does not necessarily have to be a champion to be worthy of breeding. There are many things to consider.

I still get so confused on the differences between cottony, soft coated and modified silk. I have only had one that stayed black and I petted her out. I thought she was soft coated. Her coat felt silky, was cool to touch, never matted but she was black and her head never cleared.

Mary, what statement are you referring to? I totally understand that "top" breeders do not go into details about their breeding programs. It is a vicious world out there and so many things are said that are not true or are twisted around. That is one reason it is harder for a newbie to learn because there are so many different opinions on things. That is one reason I like to hear all different viewpoints. There is just so much to learn.

Champion parents: I think what you are missing Barb is that the quality and pedigree must have been there and most all show exhibitors have their dogs expertly evaluated and tested. As Mary mentioned there are different reasons why the exhibitor made the match and why the sire or dam was not finished, yet.

Coat - How old was the one of yours that stayed black before you petted her out?

Mary didn't post this I did LOL....The statement about breeding CH to CH....I just would like to know what other show exhibitors/breeders you talk to besides Mary and I and the few that are on this forum. I'm just curious is all....

Donna

Barb, the best thing is to get out there and listen. I had to and for years to learn. Sometimes asking questions is not the best way to go about it. I know, how can you learn without asking? Sometimes, it is best to go to the shows, have an experience show exhibitor mentor you, and you learn as you watch and listen. Also you need to read books, plenty of them. When one asks so many questions and the way one may ask questions - it might come off wrong and way too over zealous. It is good to be excited and motivated, but it is best to be patient at times. I know I had to go to a lot of shows, participate at shows, and watch and listen and go to club meetings and listen more.

Tina,

Have you ever felt a black silk coated yorkie........I have once and I'll never forget what it felt like.......

Yes, it is more like a hard silk. But this one change to a dark blue later.

I didn't refer to any statement just adding to Donna's comments....

But, I will add as I stated, one must ask each individual breeder/exhibitor for their reasons in doing what they do.......before I began my breeding program...I asked so many questions of the those that knew and were successful in their programs....I made them sick.......they'd hide from me, roll their eyes and say here she comes again....but, they were always willing to help as they knew I was really wanting to learn.

Mary, she was 3 years old. I totally agree with you on what your are saying, that is what I said. There is much more to consider than if a dog is a champion. There is much more to breeding.

I've felt 2 one never changed and one I have......and your right.....dark blue later.

I'm confused Barb.....you quoted Tina, but addressed to me...

Of course it would be silly for me to say names. A couple of years ago I had made a statement to a person at a dog show that maybe I could breed to her champion some day. She just politely told me that she could only breed him to champion bitches, which I totally understood. I later notice that he had been bred to several females that were not champions. I told her I understood and that perhaps one day I would have a champion bitch. I just felt it a little disingenuous, she should of just stated that she is very selective who she will breed him to. I know that I am a newbie and I have not proven myself or my dogs in the ring.

Ok here goes.....You can ask all the questions you want on a forum and yes learn to a certain point but the only way to really know it is to GO TO THE SHOWS and sit, learn, get in the ring, spend the money and just do it!!! I'm sorry but it's getting really redundant in all the questions and answers that have been posted....Barb, you've been around now in and around the shows and this forum and you know it's going to take getting out in the ring and being involved not just sitting on the sidelines and asking questions LOL...either your going to start back showing or keep asking the same questions over and over and get the same answers over and over LOL...
I don't mean to sound frustrated but I don't know how many times we can go over the same thing with the same results....either you do it or you don't :)

Donna

I am sorry, my brain is on overload and I need to eat lunch.:)

I'm Tina. I would prefer them to be a good champion! There usually really good reasons why both parents are not championed when breeders may do a breeding. Those that were bred and did not get their championship might later gain their championships or maybe the owners had others dogs to get in the ring first or whatever the reason - the dogs they bred to were top quality and not your regular pets being bred.
In my case - Cha-Cha was whelped at the time with only her dam being a champion (and Specialty winner). Her sire had been in shows and expertly evaluated and tested, before I made the match. Cha-Cha's sire is now a champion and even took Reserves at the NJ Specialty show against tough competition. So even though when I did the breeding - not both parents were champions, but I felt it was a great match and turned out some very nice pups. Actually I was very pleased. I will have Cha-cha in the ring to hopefully finish this new year. This is just one example. Again you have to ask each breeder their reason for making the match.

Thanks to all for you input. Sorry to be a pest.

Barb,

What she gave you was the standard statement made by a lot of breeder/exhibitors......her reason maybe she didn't know, or didn't care for your breeding program (don't take it personnally, but just making a blanket statment)...........simple as that.

My studs aren't for public stud, however, been used a couple of times by people I knew and trusted.

Well, I guess you are right in not naming names because I haven't had your experience because I've never been turned away when I've approached someone for a show dog....even as a newbie

Donna