AKC or UKC?? which one?

[topknot]

Mary Anna and Mary - I totally agree. I have only met a couple of people in all my years that were not helpful. Most everyone is very nice and will help, sometimes all you have to do is ask. In showing, we try to help the breed and by helping others we feel that we do.
I think that if you show UKC and want to do better, you really need to show in AKC shows too. You can beat handlers, you just need a good dog. So don't give the excuse you do not show at AKC shows due to the professional handlers, not a good excuse. They are just good at what they do, experts in grooming, and know how to handle - that is their profession. But anyone can do as good as they do, if they just try and practice. While I am at a show, I watch carefully and hopefully I learn.

[kalina82]

Originally Posted by tegamom1

Kalina, I agree with Mardelin as I think UKC might be a way of training, but I also definitely feel it could give one a false sense of security. I'm afraid many people go out and excited that they have put a championship on a dog in a weekend or so in UKC, not realizing, it could never obtain an AKC title because the quality is just not there. This is not to offend or to say there aren't any UKC champions that are good representatives of the breed. Yes, there are handlers in AKC, and yes, now and again you will show under a judge that is, shall we say, a little political...Big deal! Such is everything in life. I truly feel if you don't have a good mentor, it is very possible to find one while showing in AKC. If you honestly want to learn the ropes, there are wonderful breeders and exhibitors out there that are more than willing to help you.

Mary Ann - Thank you for your opinions. I appreciate it. The bold statement is the one i've been thinking about for a while that bothers me the most. Since its easier to get a UKC championship, some can go out and get one with their mediocre dog that would never achieve an AKC championship. Then people buying puppies are kinda fooled into paying for a champion sired dog that really isn't up to snuff. (what's the word for a champion mother cause i don't think the word in my head is right LOL)

[kalina82]

Originally Posted by topknot

Mary Anna and Mary - I totally agree. I have only met a couple of people in all my years that were not helpful. Most everyone is very nice and will help, sometimes all you have to do is ask. In showing, we try to help the breed and by helping others we feel that we do.
I think that if you show UKC and want to do better, you really need to show in AKC shows too. You can beat handlers, you just need a good dog. So don't give the excuse you do not show at AKC shows due to the professional handlers, not a good excuse. They are just good at what they do, experts in grooming, and know how to handle - that is their profession. But anyone can do as good as they do, if they just try and practice. While I am at a show, I watch carefully and hopefully I learn.

So can handlers showing a less then perfect dog get theirs championed before a less experienced breeder showing a better dog? that doesn't seem right

[tegamom1]

Originally Posted by kalina82

So can handlers showing a less then perfect dog get theirs championed before a less experienced breeder showing a better dog? that doesn't seem right

You were trying to think of Champion dam..lol

Yes, that can happen .There are some handlers that can finish a door knob with hair.. They show so extensively that they know the judges to show under that will put them up. Like I said, it happens in all walks of life, not just dog shows and most of the time, anyone can win on any given day.

[kalina82]

Originally Posted by tegamom1

You were trying to think of Champion dam..lol

Yes, that can happen .There are some handlers that can finish a door knob with hair.. They show so extensively that they know the judges to show under that will put them up. Like I said, it happens in all walks of life, not just dog shows and most of the time, anyone can win on any given day.

so a puppy would be champion damed? LOL still funny, but not as funny as what i was thinking.

anyway, your right, there's always gonna be some less then honest working going on in any part of life.

I'd still rather have an AKC champion over a UKC one. my yorkie came from neither but that's a whole different debate . next time, even if the dog i choose isn't a yorkie, i know what i'll be looking for.

[topknot]

Originally Posted by kalina82

So can handlers showing a less then perfect dog get theirs championed before a less experienced breeder showing a better dog? that doesn't seem right

First of all there is not a perfect dog!!

You can beat a dog with a handler, but all depends on what happens in the ring and the competiton at the time.

When you are showing, you are competing against the dogs that are in the ring at the time competing against your dog - handlers or not. What does the judge likes out of the bunch? I have usually picked most times, what the judge has picked. Not always, but most. There are surprises at times, but not often. You can have a great dog - confirmation wise, but if there is one with better coat and well trained with great personality - that dog may get the win that day or not. It is all what happens in that few minutes as to which dog wins. That is why you can see one dog win the points one day and another the next day. But you can also see a dog go in and win everytime. So to win, you must have a nice dog with great qualities, good coat, movement, confirmation, color, well trained, out going personality, etc... to help raise your chances of winning. You never know who your competition is till ring time. You, as an exhibitor, must also be prepared and practice with your dog in order to have your dog ready and well trained. Grooming is also something that you must learn to do well, so the judge looking down the line in the ring will notice how nice your dog is. That is just how it is. It is like any competition - you must be ready. There is a lot to showing, but one can do well.
And yes, a less experienced exhibitor with a great dog can mess up the performance or coat of a great dog and not win. Reason one must practice and learn. That's life.

[tegamom1]

Originally Posted by kalina82

so a puppy would be champion damed? LOL still funny, but not as funny as what i was thinking.

anyway, your right, there's always gonna be some less then honest working going on in any part of life.

I'd still rather have an AKC champion over a UKC one. my yorkie came from neither but that's a whole different debate . next time, even if the dog i choose isn't a yorkie, i know what i'll be looking for.

I should add, most handlers only take dogs that are great representatives of the breed. Their reputations are also on the line...Who wants to hear people laughing at them for the "dangling" an ugly dog on the end of the lead..lol

I also agree with you..For me, it's AKC or nothing!

[tegamom1]

Originally Posted by topknot

First of all there is not a perfect dog!!

You can beat a dog with a handler, but all depends on what happens in the ring and the competiton at the time.

When you are showing, you are competing against the dogs that are in the ring at the time competing against your dog - handlers or not. What does the judge likes out of the bunch? I have usually picked most times, what the judge has picked. Not always, but most. There are surprises at times, but not often. You can have a great dog - confirmation wise, but if there is one with better coat and well trained with great personality - that dog may get the win that day or not. It is all what happens in that few minutes as to which dog wins. That is why you can see one dog win the points one day and another the next day. But you can also see a dog go in and win everytime. So to win, you must have a nice dog with great qualities, good coat, movement, confirmation, color, well trained, out going personality, etc... to help raise your chances of winning. You never know who your competition is till ring time. You, as an exhibitor, must also be prepared and practice with your dog in order to have your dog ready and well trained. Grooming is also something that you must learn to do well, so the judge looking down the line in the ring will notice how nice your dog is. That is just how it is. It is like any competition - you must be ready. There is a lot to showing, but one can do well.
And yes, a less experienced exhibitor with a great dog can mess up the performance or coat of a great dog and not win. Reason one must practice and learn. That's life.

Well said, Tina!

[kalina82]

Originally Posted by topknot

First of all there is not a perfect dog!!

You can beat a dog with a handler, but all depends on what happens in the ring and the competiton at the time.

When you are showing, you are competing against the dogs that are in the ring at the time competing against your dog - handlers or not. What does the judge likes out of the bunch? I have usually picked most times, what the judge has picked. Not always, but most. There are surprises at times, but not often. You can have a great dog - confirmation wise, but if there is one with better coat and well trained with great personality - that dog may get the win that day or not. It is all what happens in that few minutes as to which dog wins. That is why you can see one dog win the points one day and another the next day. But you can also see a dog go in and win everytime. So to win, you must have a nice dog with great qualities, good coat, movement, confirmation, color, well trained, out going personality, etc... to help raise your chances of winning. You never know who your competition is till ring time. You, as an exhibitor, must also be prepared and practice with your dog in order to have your dog ready and well trained. Grooming is also something that you must learn to do well, so the judge looking down the line in the ring will notice how nice your dog is. That is just how it is. It is like any competition - you must be ready. There is a lot to showing, but one can do well.
And yes, a less experienced exhibitor with a great dog can mess up the performance or coat of a great dog and not win. Reason one must practice and learn. That's life.

very true, no such thing as a perfect dog.

everything you said here is great and very well said. thank you you made excellent points.

[topknot]

I just want to add that handlers spend many, many hours refining their art and know what they are doing. They have more hours in training and grooming than I have or most people. They know how to work a dog and get them to preform at their best, reason people pay them to show their dogs. Their grooming is especially fantastic and they make getting a dog ring ready so easy. It is second nature to them. This is one reason why they get asked to do the videos on grooming, how to put a topknot up, how to show, etc... they are the experts. And I give them credit. It takes a lot of work and hours to do what they can do and yes, they also know what the judges like, and they can usually travel farther to go to all the shows. But it is nothing one cannot learn if put forth effort.

[kalina82]

Originally Posted by tegamom1

I should add, most handlers only take dogs that are great representatives of the breed. Their reputations are also on the line...Who wants to hear people laughing at them for the "dangling" an ugly dog on the end of the lead..lol

I also agree with you..For me, it's AKC or nothing!

Good point. no good handler is going to want to tarnish their reputation by taking in a bad representation of the breed.

[topknot]

Originally Posted by tegamom1

I should add, most handlers only take dogs that are great representatives of the breed. Their reputations are also on the line...Who wants to hear people laughing at them for the "dangling" an ugly dog on the end of the lead..lol

I also agree with you..For me, it's AKC or nothing!

So true!! It is a very small world - the Show World! Reputation is everything!

[Mardelin]

One must remember that Handlers are professionals....they are well known and there are judges that won't look down the lead. Handlers are well trained in the art of presenting a dog and can take a mediocre dog and Champion it. It's what a handler is being payed for. So, it's up to the breeders to breed and show the best respresentations of the breed and only take those dogs to the judges or give them to a handler to show. If we don't do this then the only ones we're fooling is ourselves, our breeding program and hurting the breed.

Since I've never shown UKC, I have a question for those that do. How many yorkie entries are present at a UKC show?

[Mardelin]

Originally Posted by kalina82

So can handlers showing a less then perfect dog get theirs championed before a less experienced breeder showing a better dog? that doesn't seem right

No, it doesn't seem right, but it does happen.

I have no problem being in the ring and being beat by a better dog. But, when I'm beat by a visably lesser dog it is upsetting.

Showing a couple of weeks ago, there were only two of us in the bred by ring. Now this is going to sound strange but, the other dog in the ring was to die for, absolutely everything I like in a dog, leg, beautiful head, coat color, texture and length.....definately the better of the two dogs. He wouldn't show for his owner that day and that is the only reason CJ beat him.

[tegamom1]

Originally Posted by Mardelin

One must remember that Handlers are professionals....they are well known and there are judges that won't look down the lead. Handlers are well trained in the art of presenting a dog and can take a mediocre dog and Champion it. It's what a handler is being payed for. So, it's up to the breeders to breed and show the best respresentations of the breed and only take those dogs to the judges or give them to a handler to show. If we don't do this then the only ones we're fooling is ourselves, our breeding program and hurting the breed.

Since I've never shown UKC, I have a question for those that do. How many yorkie entries are present at a UKC show?

I too have a question for UKC exhibitors. When selling puppies and giving pedigrees, do you list the dogs as UKC Champion or just Ch.?