Jemma - I'm trying to leave this thread open for a while until I hear back from the attorney I mentioned, in case she can provide helpful info regarding the legality of spaying Emma. But, I hear you and know what you mean. :)

this was the original post here and the same day Little Emma was for sale in the classified..

I think it's pretty much established that this person is either mixed up, a liar, or just doesn't care.
Bottom line is Emma and we can't do much about it, sad.
Emma is in her possession and she will do what she wants.
On a positive note I really loved to see all the wonderful posts and the way people were willing to help out, I think it was great!

YES! ALOT of GOOD HEARTS here :)

I admire you for doing all you can to help poor Emma. She is clearly a victim and in dire need of rescue. I have silently followed the situation and have been disgusted by the whole of it from the initial sale of an unaltered aggressive female to the attempted resale of this same unaltered aggressive female and all the threads inbetween. I sincerely hope that the attorney gets back with you soon..... but it seems to me that the responsibility of spaying her should rest on the owner's shoulders. She has had a very valid and generous offer to allow Emma to be "Rescued" by a well respected YT member who will incur the costs of having her spayed and rehomed AND will give all the rehoming $$ fee back to the present owner. It seems like a perfect solution, but the OP has opted to sell the poor little one unaltered.

If any of you read the ad that is posted, you'll see that it clearly states she isn't spayed but will be REQUIRED to be BEFORE placement.

No, I don't know if I CAN spay her legally, but in the event I can rehome her, she will be no matter what it entails.

It's not a crime to start seeking a good family for her. Home checks, vet checks, etc take time. If it comes down to being able to rehome her instead of keeping her in a long term foster situation, I felt that it would be good to start looking for her forever family ASAP.

I did read the ad. If you can't legally spay Emma, then how can you legally sell her? Is Emma your dog? If she is your dog then there shouldn't be a problem having her spayed. There is no way you can force anyone to spay her after she changes possession. If a new owner wants to breed her Emma will simply DIE and lo and behold another female that looks much like Emma will resurfce. It is done all the time.

I do believe that if she were sent to Amanda that she would start looking for her a forever home immediately. There is no reason to believe that she would be in a "long term foster" situation.

It is not a crime for you to sell your dog. From your OP I took it that you were sincerely looking for the best possible placement for Emma. It seems like a "foster" who has a veternarian for a husband, who can have her spayed at no cost to you and is willing to incur all expenses of rehoming her and giving you the $$ would be the best placement.

I don't really want to get in any argument, but you said you did not have time to drive 5 hours. But you state the home checks, vet checks take time. Not even considering the stress of doing this yourself as you are so close to the situation. I am just saying if someone else could help take that burden, and is willing to give you the rehoming fee? I guess I would just want to move on from this bad thing that happened to you. The stress of litigation and emma still being in the home, with her aggression issues. Just to lift the burden from your shoulders should be worth the 5 hour drive. I am just saying, start fresh, more forward, leave it alone, it sounds like you have important things to do with Avian rescue, they need you to be there for them. Let Amanda help you.

I've read as much as I could on this and I've been on here for a good hour now reading and I must say I understand your concerns Gina about loosing money on Emma but let me tell you, I dished out 500 for my adult female and probably about another 500 in vet costs and food and everything else you want to count.

My situation is a tad bit different then yours but COMON. I am UNEMPLOYED at the moment and money is TIGHT as heck for me, I have spent 1000 if not more on my adult female and I HAD TO GIVE HER UP FOR FREE because it was for HER BEST INTEREST. I have seen so many people now trying to help you in finding this dog a home. I didn't want to give my dog up, and I for sure as heck didn't want to be out 1,000$ BUT SOMETIMES SH.T happens and I think your being a bit selfish right now. You said yourself this dog isn't good with children and your other yorkie so why the heck are you keeping them in danger keeping this dog IF someone is willing to take her, 5 hours is NOT A LONG DRIVE. I would drive that in a minute if it ment finding a good home or place for my dog. You need to take this as a lesson learned and realize NEXT TIME you be more careful, people lose money all the time, people spend money and things don't turn out, stop making this all about the money, so you loose some of the money or all of the money next time you'll know better. I had to pay for vet costs INSTEAD of fixing my car and I've only had my dog since Oct. and now she is gone I gave her away for FREE because I am not going to sit around wasting time because I am out 1,000. Next time I will KNOW BETTER! You won't get the vet costs back that you spent on your other yorkie and you will spend more if you keep them together and something happens again :mad:

Chattiesmom,

I said I don't KNOW for sure what I can and cannot do at the moment. I AM looking into it.

If I can place Emma, she'll be spayed and placed for a modest adoption fee and that fee deducted what what I'll be asking the courts to obtain from the seller or handed over to rescue for proper placement. I'm hoping this is going to be the case, as it's the best solution for all involved. Hopefully I"ll have answers to that tomorrow.

If not, then I need to figure out a long term foster situation.

On one hand I had a lot of people telling me to pursue the breeder so she doesn't get away with this ever again. Everyone is tired of reading threads and stories about how breeders are ripping people off for their money. I can't do that if I don't go about things in the right, legal manner. What the legal system think is proper and what we think is proper can sometimes be 2 different things.

On the other hand, everyone is sitting here telling me to give the dog to rescue and just take the loss. This is almost $2000 of my money. While it may not seem like a lot to some, it is to me.

I feel like no matter what I do, it's not going to be right and no one is going to be happy. I don't think I'll be posting here anymore. I just can't handle being beaten up on anymore for something that never should have transpired in the first place. If the breeder wouldn't have pushed her problems onto me, I wouldn't be in this mess. My family and myself are going through enough over this and we've lost more sleep, time and money than any of you trying to decide what the best thing to do is. You don't know what you would do until you're in my situation and I pray you never find yourself here to be tried, judged and sentenced for merely wanting a suitable pet for your family. It's not fair to be treated like this and I can't bear to put myself through it anymore.

I wish you all the best with your Yorkies.

So the issue that I see here is the the OPer is too busy to drive Emma half way to Amanda. Amanda is willing to pay the $650, spay and foster or rehome her. If I was able to put together a transport to get her from point A to point B what is the issue then? I would be willing to use whatever means that would be necasarry to get her to Amanda without any stress to the OPer. There are transports done all the time just like this and she could be in Amandas home very quickly. Would you be willing to let me put together this transport if Amanda was willing to take on the responsibility of Emma's care, spay and rehoming? If you already have an ad in place and someone called today with the cash in had would you not let her go for the $650? IMO there is not one person that would be willing to pay this amount of money for Emma other than Amanda so why not just take what is offered and be done with the entire situation? Maybe you should talk this idea over with your husband and see if this would work. That way you will have $650 in your hand and Emma sold, spayed and your children and other pet will be safe from Emma's aggressive behavior. To me this would eliminate all of your problems and finally bring peace not only to your family but also to this board.

No one pushed this "problem" on you. You knew she was aggressive. To be honest, if I was looking for a dog and the description had the word aggressive in it, and I had children and/or dogs I would be looking for another dog!!

Teija's husband used the same word dumped on Post #26. Borinal wrote "Somehow though Emma being "dumped" into our laps...But I still want the money back" says it all.

I think when Teija started the posts she thought if she embarrassed the seller on YT she would give Teija what she would settle for. Giving Teija her money back and paying to have Emma shipped back to the seller. The caring people on YT focused on Emma and getting her spayed and into a good environment for her. This would reduce the amount of money Teija might recoup. I don't blame the buyer for being upset about her loss of money but Emma is a living, breathing creature. Teija how can you have so much compassion in you for birds yet Emma is all about the almighty dollar.

The site you have Emma on has 6 pages of Yorkies for sale. A lot of puppies for not much more than the $650 you are asking. Do you really think someone is going to pay $650 for an older dog they couldn't breed and has aggression issues?

Poor Emma.

Teiya, maybe you should be the bigger person here.(between you and the breeder) Maybe pursuing her will not be a good path for you or Emma. Do it for Emma, as the breeder did not! Let her go. Take your loses and move on. God has other plans for Emma. You need to stay emotionally heathly for your other baby and your family. This stess over what you feel this breeder did to you cannot be healthy. I hope you don't go away from YT, I just think you are overwhelmed with this.

If you get $650 for her I will be amazed. I paid $600 for a pup here

Bottom line, this is the RESCUE forum, you indicated that Emma needed to be OUT of your house immediately. That solution was offered to you at little or no cost to you AND you would recoop all the $$ that would result from the rehoming of her.

If she is in fact your dog, then you can spay her. If you choose to persue legal proceedings against the breeder, you will have to keep Emma until the proceedings are over because I would imagine that if you "win" the litigation you will have to return her intact to the seller and you would be refunded at least a portion of the original sales price.

I am a paralegal so until we hear back from the attorney Wylie's Mom contacted, I'll add my two cents. Obviously I have never seen the contract and don't know all the facts, so this is only my opinion.

If the OP intends to bring a legal action against Emma's breeder, not only shouldn't she spay Emma, but she needs to keep possession of Emma and not sell or place her with a third party.

The court will have to have a remedy to this dispute in order to decide it and most likely will consider returning Emma to her breeder for a full refund as one option. If the court does not have a remedy to grant relief, it will just dismiss the case.

Another thing to consider is that a rescue group may not take Emma if there is a legal action pending as they might not be able to place her until the court decides the case. Can you imagine the nightmare if the court decided that Emma had to be returned to her breeder and she was already placed with a family?

Sadly for Emma, if the court is asked to decide her fate, she will have to remain in limbo until it does. :(

Just in your opinion: do you think all of that would be worth the $2000 she is out? And legal fees on top of that? I know that is alot of money to most of us but stress and time involved would not be worth that much to me. Even to prove a point to the breeder. I am just thinking some things are not just worth it. Life is to short. Just trying to put things in perspective.

I just thought in the last thread that the OP emphasized that Emmas aggressiveness was a threat to her children and other pets and she needed her rehomed right away

It's always best if the people involved can resolve an issue without going to court.

That alone would be reason enough to not worry about the money. You cannot put a price on the safety of your family. If that is the case.

From the other thread, it sounds like the breeder offered to refund the purchase price of $850.00, but didn't want to refund shipping costs, and you refused this offer. I think this is pretty standard, and as far as the breeder misrepresenting the dog, how is that different than what you are doing in your new ad? I notice you show cuter pictures than you did here on YT, and you say that the dog is "very affectionate". Proving that the dog had food aggression issues before she was placed in your home will be very difficult; in fact, they could have started at your home. I think whoever buys the dog, will have a much more solid case on misrepresentation than you do.

:thumbup::thumbup:Great post Jodi. Gina We are all strongly wanting you to consider this. Please Gina do whats right for Emma. Amanda is the Angel sent to help you..

Did I miss something?? ... The last time I read the OP was out $1110 and now it's up to $2000???:confused: Why does this amount you need to get back keep rising?... I can't help but think that this "aggression" issue with Emma is being exaggerated as well just to justify getting rid of her.......

And I can speak from experience on losing money on a yorkie...We put out the purchase price for an adult, paid for the spay and then surgery for legg perthes ( which I was lied to about it by the breeder) and then ended up losing the yorkie a couple of days after the surgery,it was a total of about $1,300-$1,400 all in a couple of months time....

Not once did my DH or myself ever think of the money.... all we ever thought of was the yorkie and what was best for him and how we desperately wanted him back with us.........All we expected or wanted was to get a yorkie to love and dote on, but it didn't turn out that way......Sometimes in life that's just the way it it.....

I thank my lucky stars my DH only wanted the best for our new addition and he would never put the money issue above that.....and no, we are not well off either, we're far from it....

:confused: First you paid $1100 for and yet you have a loss of $2000 ???
Unbelieveable!

Oh the poster above me was faster. He saw it too!

I think she is adding the vet bills from Emma attacking her other dog.

The original issue was: Is the dog pictured the same. All of these other issues cropped up later. I believe that it would be very hard to establish from internet pictures if the dog pictured was the dog received. If Emma's registration papers have DNA information then perhaps she could be DNA tested to verify that the dog is the same. Is the issue still whether or not the Emma in the picture is the Emma that was sent? Does Emma answer to her name? I would think it highly unlikely that the seller would have two very similar looking dogs that responded to the same name. I would be surprised if Emma's name was changed if she has been in her new home long enough for a new name to be well established.

The buyer knew about the aggression issues, so tht shouldn't even be part of the continuing discussion. Judges and juries deal with fact, and since Gina knew in advance that Emma had aggression issues it would be difficult for a jury to award judgement against the seller for that issue.

The topic of this thread is that Emma needs to be OUT of the buyer's house asap and Gina was asking for help in getting that done. She has a standing offer by Amanda.

I have to agree, she should have gladly settled for the $850....

Well then, lets not leave anything out....:rolleyes: