Medical by Royal Canin

[107barney]

Originally Posted by LuvTaycieGirl

I am amazed at the results I am getting with Taycie's RX diet. As far as profit goes, I am happy my vet gets a percentage, I think they deserve it. I do expect quality vet care, I want answers to all my questions when I call so if they end up make an extra amount of my $29 bag of dog food. Great!

All this talk of RC medical foods made me take the plunge........

I just ordered RC vegetarian for Daisy. Gotta get her off the soy nuggets from Purina, we think they are setting her into kidney failure. It's really too bad - her liver, intestines and other organs all like the soy nuggets.

But, I do want to pay my vet well so I went ahead and ordered the RC so she could get a kickback and stay in business. How silly does that even sound!! I don't know what kind of vets some people go to but if you walk in the door and there is a bucket catching the drips from a leaking ceiling and the only lights in the exam room are from the sun shining in and the vet is sending you home with 18 cases of Hill's and RC into yeah, then there is a problem.

[Ellie May]

I don't follow on the kickback thing. Somebody, anybody sells a food, they can make a profit. Company can even offer incentives so seller sells more. How is it any different? And vets could sell whatever brand they want to and make money from it. Nobody is forcing them to sell SD or RC. However, they ahve to because it meets medical needs. I'll say it "could" be a conflict of interest. Not all vets are noble. But "most" of the time they will use what works because they are trying to help their patients and rx food works. Then again, they sell drugs too. So that "could" be a conflict of interest. At the same time, no way in this world am I going to not buy a drug just because my vet sells it. I think if people are so concerned that the vet is trying to sell them every last thing needlessly, it's time to move on.

One of my dogs is on an rx diet..which I buy from the vet..which I could get a prescription for. I prefer that my vet makes the money from it though. My other dog eats an OTC - the one recommended by his vet. There were intestinal issues and I was not immediately told to use an rx diet for life. Actually, with the Yorkie, we went through a lot of brainstorming and hard times to find something that works for her. She earned every penny that she now makes off of me buying the food there. I'm quite sure she would have rather not had the headache of such a food intolerant dog that could not eat anything without getting sick. I know what she feeds her dogs. The food oesn't matter right now, but what does matter is yes, she sometimes recommends it to clients "when it is appropriate to do so". She assesses each animal individually and makes a dietary recommendation. And when there is a problem, she sends her clients to a nutritionist because she is not one and does not claim to be.

I'm also pretty involved in the field and what I have witnessed is not a mass effort to sell rx food. Actually, I hear about how it takes up so much space and had to be handled. Some offices would rather not have it there. I also hear discouragement from relying on an rx food by some vets unless that's truly what the dog does best on because it's not as easy to obtain for the owner.

I have seen nothing to support the idea that barley is somehow better than corn for dogs. I mean, either is fine and to each their own, but I continue to try and figure out where all the corn hate is coming from.

I used to be of the same opinion --- because I read that I should hate corn and by-products from dog food websites that are written by the lay public. I was sooooo upset when my dog had to be switched by homecooked to kibble. And back then I probably held out too long because of "death nugget fear". ..fear that SD and Purina were completely unacceptable. Well, I can now say that Purina is likely keeping my dog alive and I will be forever grateful to them for their knowledge about rx dog food, and their wiillingness to make a food that contains no meat and just soy even though people on the internet think such a thing is absurd. I'm also grateful that they use corn starch because it works. So for a few months at least, I haven't felt like my dog was slowly dying from malnourishment. Do I agree with everything these companies do and sell? No way. But they have my respect because they are the ones dumping money into these kinds of things. I don't see the smaller company doing so.

[gracielove]

I can tell you that most human doctors receive only a tiny amount of nutritional training in school. Their training just does not include what the nutritional functions and needs of the body are. I have worked in the medical field for many years and I can tell you that if a doctor wants a patient to consider their diet they will send them to a nutritionist. I'm quite sure the same is true with veterinarians. Drug company representatives come to physicians offices to sell them drugs. The reps give them the latest updates on what is available to treat various conditions.The doctor depends on their information and does not research it. The same happens with veterinarians. A food company rep comes to the office and sells them the latest thing that their companies have put together to be fed for various conditions. The doctor is relying on the information that these companies representatives have given them. I would advise any human or pet owner to ask questions as to why this food is recommended for your dog or cat. You will find in many cases that your vet does not have much knowledge about it. Veterinarians are not nutritionists. They are relying on a biased company for their information. I suppose they assume the company has put the right ingredients in the food. However, most food companies are going by the bottom line to produce their food. What can sit on the shelf longest? How can they make a profit? That is what they are considering. Since meat cannot be put in a bag and sit on a shelf for long periods of time pet food companies have used grains and ingredients not natural to a dog's diet to substitute for the meat and other natural ingredients. Corn is not dog food. It seems anyone would realize that! Corn is used to fatten up cows and it has a high glucose content. The dog food site that was recommended by a previous post is not put together by a vet and I would say that is the first thing that would make me look at it. Some vets have taken the time to educate themselves on nutrition but very few so if you really want to help your pet do some research for yourselves. What was a dog originally intended to eat? Meat! That is what their bodies were made to use not corn! Not artificial ingredients. Our dogs that eat the grocery store or department store dog food are becoming obese, they are becoming diabetic and getting cancer at alarming rates. When ever we change a diet to something the body was not originally intended to eat the body cannot function as it was intended and disease sets in.
Instead of just treating symptoms the best healing will occur by giving the body the nutrition it needs in the form that the body can best metabolize.

[ladyjane]

Originally Posted by gracielove

I can tell you that most human doctors receive only a tiny amount of nutritional training in school. Their training just does not include what the nutritional functions and needs of the body are. I have worked in the medical field for many years and I can tell you that if a doctor wants a patient to consider their diet they will send them to a nutritionist. I'm quite sure the same is true with veterinarians. Drug company representatives come to physicians offices to sell them drugs. The reps give them the latest updates on what is available to treat various conditions.The doctor depends on their information and does not research it. The same happens with veterinarians. A food company rep comes to the office and sells them the latest thing that their companies have put together to be fed for various conditions. The doctor is relying on the information that these companies representatives have given them. I would advise any human or pet owner to ask questions as to why this food is recommended for your dog or cat. You will find in many cases that your vet does not have much knowledge about it. Veterinarians are not nutritionists. They are relying on a biased company for their information. I suppose they assume the company has put the right ingredients in the food. However, most food companies are going by the bottom line to produce their food. What can sit on the shelf longest? How can they make a profit? That is what they are considering. Since meat cannot be put in a bag and sit on a shelf for long periods of time pet food companies have used grains and ingredients not natural to a dog's diet to substitute for the meat and other natural ingredients. Corn is not dog food. It seems anyone would realize that! Corn is used to fatten up cows and it has a high glucose content. The dog food site that was recommended by a previous post is not put together by a vet and I would say that is the first thing that would make me look at it. Some vets have taken the time to educate themselves on nutrition but very few so if you really want to help your pet do some research for yourselves. What was a dog originally intended to eat? Meat! That is what their bodies were made to use not corn! Not artificial ingredients. Our dogs that eat the grocery store or department store dog food are becoming obese, they are becoming diabetic and getting cancer at alarming rates. When ever we change a diet to something the body was not originally intended to eat the body cannot function as it was intended and disease sets in.
Instead of just treating symptoms the best healing will occur by giving the body the nutrition it needs in the form that the body can best metabolize.

All I can say is that I hope you don't use this type of thinking if you ever have a really sick pup that needs a special diet.

[gracielove]

If I had a really sick pup I would take it to a doctor that knew about holistic health care and not someone who depends on the dog food industry to tell them what to do.

[ladyjane]

Originally Posted by gracielove

If I had a really sick pup I would take it to a doctor that knew about holistic health care and not someone who depends on the dog food industry to tell them what to do.

How sad that you feel there is such a conspiracy. I do have a question for you: do you apply the same thinking when it comes to your healthy?

[Maximo]

Originally Posted by gracielove

What was a dog originally intended to eat? Meat! That is what their bodies were made to use not corn! Not artificial ingredients. Our dogs that eat the grocery store or department store dog food are becoming obese, they are becoming diabetic and getting cancer at alarming rates. When ever we change a diet to something the body was not originally intended to eat the body cannot function as it was intended and disease sets in.
Instead of just treating symptoms the best healing will occur by giving the body the nutrition it needs in the form that the body can best metabolize.

For pets, the primary causes of obesity and related health problems, diabetes and cancer, is being overfed and under-exercised by their caretakers -- and being fed inappropriate "human" foods.

[Ellie May]

Diets very high in meat (or probably any protein) make BUN rise. Not interested in that for my dogs. Just because a diet is "natural" doesn't mean it's optimal.

The conspiracy theories about rx foods have really made me nervous as of late. If there is no DVM behind a name of somebody commenting on prescription diets, I usually just walk away because DVMs have the training to treat medical issues (which is what rx foods do). I also like to see a PhD with that DVM because they have studied just nutrition for years. I'm not really sure why the creators of these sites think they know more than veterinary professionals. They usually have zero credentials.

Vets do have drug reps come in and food reps just like human doctors have with drugs. And if I thought that a free lunch and cool pens with a nice speech was what my doctor or my dogs' doctor based their medical opinion off of, then they would be our doctors no longer. Our doctors use drugs that they know are relatively safe and effective. From first hand experience I know if a drug rep presents an argument to switch drugs to my vet, she takes her sweet time deciding if it is right for her patients. That is what I expect from medical professionals that touch my dogs or me.

I can even see why somebody could make the argument that vets don't know that much about nutrition, but they are recommending the same things veterinary nutritionists do and these people know more than anybody on an internet forum could ever hope to on the subject.

[Maximo]

Originally Posted by Maximo

For pets, the primary causes of obesity and related health problems, diabetes and cancer, is being overfed and under-exercised by their caretakers -- and being fed inappropriate "human" foods.

Good grief, my grammar The primary causes ARE.

[Maximo]

Originally Posted by Ellie May

Diets very high in meat (or probably any protein) make BUN rise. Not interested in that for my dogs. Just because a diet is "natural" doesn't mean it's optimal.

The conspiracy theories about rx foods have really made me nervous as of late. If there is no DVM behind a name of somebody commenting on prescription diets, I usually just walk away because DVMs have the training to treat medical issues (which is what rx foods do). I also like to see a PhD with that DVM because they have studied just nutrition for years. I'm not really sure why the creators of these sites think they know more than veterinary professionals. They usually have zero credentials.

Vets do have drug reps come in and food reps just like human doctors have with drugs. And if I thought that a free lunch and cool pens with a nice speech was what my doctor or my dogs' doctor based their medical opinion off of, then they would be our doctors no longer. Our doctors use drugs that they know are relatively safe and effective. From first hand experience I know if a drug rep presents an argument to switch drugs to my vet, she takes her sweet time deciding if it is right for her patients. That is what I expect from medical professionals that touch my dogs or me.

I can even see why somebody could make the argument that vets don't know that much about nutrition, but they are recommending the same things veterinary nutritionists do and these people know more than anybody on an internet forum could ever hope to on the subject.

Great post.

[ladyjane]

Originally Posted by Ellie May

Diets very high in meat (or probably any protein) make BUN rise. Not interested in that for my dogs. Just because a diet is "natural" doesn't mean it's optimal.

The conspiracy theories about rx foods have really made me nervous as of late. If there is no DVM behind a name of somebody commenting on prescription diets, I usually just walk away because DVMs have the training to treat medical issues (which is what rx foods do). I also like to see a PhD with that DVM because they have studied just nutrition for years. I'm not really sure why the creators of these sites think they know more than veterinary professionals. They usually have zero credentials.

Vets do have drug reps come in and food reps just like human doctors have with drugs. And if I thought that a free lunch and cool pens with a nice speech was what my doctor or my dogs' doctor based their medical opinion off of, then they would be our doctors no longer. Our doctors use drugs that they know are relatively safe and effective. From first hand experience I know if a drug rep presents an argument to switch drugs to my vet, she takes her sweet time deciding if it is right for her patients. That is what I expect from medical professionals that touch my dogs or me.

I can even see why somebody could make the argument that vets don't know that much about nutrition, but they are recommending the same things veterinary nutritionists do and these people know more than anybody on an internet forum could ever hope to on the subject.

[107barney]

Originally Posted by gracielove

If I had a really sick pup I would take it to a doctor that knew about holistic health care and not someone who depends on the dog food industry to tell them what to do.

I take it you don't have a sick pup. And thank god he does try to give sick pups to people who have correct logic and not this kind of nonsensical thinking. I hope you never have a sick pup -- for the pup's sake! Your posts border on the absurd!

[LuvTaycieGirl]

Originally Posted by gracielove

I can tell you that most human doctors receive only a tiny amount of nutritional training in school. Their training just does not include what the nutritional functions and needs of the body are. I have worked in the medical field for many years and I can tell you that if a doctor wants a patient to consider their diet they will send them to a nutritionist. I'm quite sure the same is true with veterinarians. Drug company representatives come to physicians offices to sell them drugs. The reps give them the latest updates on what is available to treat various conditions.The doctor depends on their information and does not research it. The same happens with veterinarians. A food company rep comes to the office and sells them the latest thing that their companies have put together to be fed for various conditions. The doctor is relying on the information that these companies representatives have given them. I would advise any human or pet owner to ask questions as to why this food is recommended for your dog or cat. You will find in many cases that your vet does not have much knowledge about it. Veterinarians are not nutritionists. They are relying on a biased company for their information. I suppose they assume the company has put the right ingredients in the food. However, most food companies are going by the bottom line to produce their food. What can sit on the shelf longest? How can they make a profit? That is what they are considering. Since meat cannot be put in a bag and sit on a shelf for long periods of time pet food companies have used grains and ingredients not natural to a dog's diet to substitute for the meat and other natural ingredients. Corn is not dog food. It seems anyone would realize that! Corn is used to fatten up cows and it has a high glucose content. The dog food site that was recommended by a previous post is not put together by a vet and I would say that is the first thing that would make me look at it. Some vets have taken the time to educate themselves on nutrition but very few so if you really want to help your pet do some research for yourselves. What was a dog originally intended to eat? Meat! That is what their bodies were made to use not corn! Not artificial ingredients. Our dogs that eat the grocery store or department store dog food are becoming obese, they are becoming diabetic and getting cancer at alarming rates. When ever we change a diet to something the body was not originally intended to eat the body cannot function as it was intended and disease sets in.
Instead of just treating symptoms the best healing will occur by giving the body the nutrition it needs in the form that the body can best metabolize.

I think the most important thing to remember is that not every dog thrives on the same thing. In the beginning I tried many of the fancy dog foods trying to find something that worked for my very sensitive Taycie. I did read, and went with the advice off the internet. I was never going to feed brands that were not "5 and 6" star rated. And heaven forbid I bought a bag of Science Diet or Royal Canin.

But after many failed attempts with the "best" dog foods available nothing worked. And I mean NOTHING. Either her little tummy would end up would be a mess, and I would be cleaning up diaherra or I was dealing with a very uncomfortable scratchy miserable dog.

Not every dog is not the same so of course their nutritional needs vary from dog to dog. My Taycie does NOT thrive on dog foods loaded with meat and gobs of ingredients.. Her senstive stomach can not tolerate it. So I ended up trying a few very popular Limitied Ingredient Diets, and her allergy symptoms became worse. I was at the end of my rope. I knew my vet would and does have answers and I then had a change of heart. I just wanted her to be happy and healthy. At that point, it became crucial to find something that worked. ANYTHING to keep her comfortable. Her well being and comfort was way more important to me then trying diet after diet to keep coming up with failed results. So I turned to my Vet. Our answer was a RX diet and the results with it have been nothing but amazing.

Believe it or not my "2 star RX diet," does not have corn or by products.. Not all diets are formulated the same. But, even if it did, and my vet felt her little body would tolerate it better, I would feed it to her because at the end of the day her nutrional needs are different and her quality of life is the most important, and I am not educated enough to even try and mess with it.

Regardless, if vets get kick backs and have no nutritional training, or if the product is loaded with corn. Sick or special needs dogs NEED a special diet. Their bodies are different. You can not feed a sick dog something it does not thrive on. As a result, you could be doing more harm then good. No matter what is in it.

I think it is sad so many are scare of RX diets made by Royal Canin or Science Diet because of what is printed on the back of the bag. They save many dogs lives and keep them happy and healthy for years. They have turned my Taycie's life around. And, I am so thankful for it.

[gracielove]

Originally Posted by ladyjane

How sad that you feel there is such a conspiracy. I do have a question for you: do you apply the same thinking when it comes to your healthy?

Yes, I do apply that type of thinking to my health. In the past people have blindly followed physicians instructions with out questioning because they felt that a doctor knows everything and is one step below God. I'm sorry but doctors do not know everything. Physicians are frighteningly dependent on pharmaceutical and other medical supply companies for their information. Physicians do not have time to research the drugs, medical supplies and equipment that they must use in their practice. They get about a 6 week course in nutrition during medical school unless they decide on their own to learn more. I am not saying there is a conspiracy of any kind. I am saying that in our modern era we have found ways to make food for both humans and animals in a way that is convenient. In order to increase the amount of time that a product can survive from reaping to sale the food industry has had to change the nutritional content of food.
I have worked closely with doctors for years. They do the best they can with the limited knowledge they have. When dealing with my health issues I am not afraid to question my doctor about any tests or medications he/she may want to prescribe. A good doctor should be happy to discuss his diagnosis and treatment plan. Certainly no one should leave the doctor's office without knowing exactly what the medications are, why they have been prescribed, what side effects may occur, and how long the doctor feels they may needed. Any patient should feel free to ask for a second opinion if they are uncomfortable with the physicians plan and quite often patients find differing opinions when they do so.
Pet food companies are using grains for convenience not because grains are the naturally intended food for a dog. Much of the sickness and disease in this country, for both human and animal, is caused by poor diet. Our foods do not contain the nutritional content they used to. Our meats are pumped full of antibiotics, steroids and hormones. Our produce is genetically engineered to be resistant to insects and to last months beyond their natural life span. Produce is also engineered to be of uniform size so that transport and packaging can be more convenient.
Dog food companies have to make a food that will last on a shelf in a bag for months at a time. They use corn and other grains to substitute for the meat that they cannot preserve in it's natural state. Many times they also add some form of sugar to make the product taste better to the animal. Dogs are carnivorous. They do not graze like a cow. Their bodies are created to metabolize meat as the main component of their diet. The pet food industry puts together the ingredients that will remain stable for long periods of time and they add artificial preservatives and vitamins. This they then call nutritionally complete. Some dogs can tolerate these types of foods better than others. The vet is depending on the research the pet food company has done to support the health of their patient. Yes, humans and pets survive on this artificial diet for a time but eventually health breaks down and the body becomes less resistant to disease. The result being obesity, heart disease, diabetes, cancer, etc.
This is a subject that everyone needs to educate themselves about. Of course we should not trust everything we read on the internet because much of it is biased in one way or another but there certainly is good information available out there. We all have to make decisions about what is best for ourselves, our families and our pets. That decision should be based on factual sources not blind faith in any physician. It is wrong to blindly follow anyone, physician or industry. We don't live in the same world our parents or grandparents may have lived in. Our bodies were made to consume foods that come from nature not boxes. I don't think the pet food industry is out to kill our pets. But they are producing a product that is not natural to the animal's body and they are doing it because they cannot produce a natural healthy product with a long shelf life that they can maintain their profit margin with. Vets sell these products because it is all that is available. Of course they make a profit on it and there is nothing wrong with that. I am not condemning the veterinarians. They are doing what they can with the information they have. I hope in the future our educational institutions will start spending more time teaching holistic health care. Instead of waiting for disease to enter the body and then treating the symptoms they could be helping to prevent disease by teaching how to produce healthy foods and how to eat a healthy diet.

[gracielove]

Originally Posted by LuvTaycieGirl

I think the most important thing to remember is that not every dog thrives on the same thing. In the beginning I tried many of the fancy dog foods trying to find something that worked for my very sensitive Taycie. I did read, and went with the advice off the internet. I was never going to feed brands that were not "5 and 6" star rated. And heaven forbid I bought a bag of Science Diet or Royal Canin.

But after many failed attempts with the "best" dog foods available nothing worked. And I mean NOTHING. Either her little tummy would end up would be a mess, and I would be cleaning up diaherra or I was dealing with a very uncomfortable scratchy miserable dog.

Not every dog is not the same so of course their nutritional needs vary from dog to dog. My Taycie does NOT thrive on dog foods loaded with meat and gobs of ingredients.. Her senstive stomach can not tolerate it. So I ended up trying a few very popular Limitied Ingredient Diets, and her allergy symptoms became worse. I was at the end of my rope. I knew my vet would and does have answers and I then had a change of heart. I just wanted her to be happy and healthy. At that point, it became crucial to find something that worked. ANYTHING to keep her comfortable. Her well being and comfort was way more important to me then trying diet after diet to keep coming up with failed results. So I turned to my Vet. Our answer was a RX diet and the results with it have been nothing but amazing.

Believe it or not my "2 star RX diet," does not have corn or by products.. Not all diets are formulated the same. But, even if it did, and my vet felt her little body would tolerate it better, I would feed it to her because at the end of the day her nutrional needs are different and her quality of life is the most important, and I am not educated enough to even try and mess with it.

Regardless, if vets get kick backs and have no nutritional training, or if the product is loaded with corn. Sick or special needs dogs NEED a special diet. Their bodies are different. You can not feed a sick dog something it does not thrive on. As a result, you could be doing more harm then good. No matter what is in it.

I think it is sad so many are scare of RX diets made by Royal Canin or Science Diet because of what is printed on the back of the bag. They save many dogs lives and keep them happy and healthy for years. They have turned my Taycie's life around. And, I am so thankful for it.

I agree with you that not all the highly rated foods are all that great. I will not give my dog any food with white potatoes and most of the higher rated foods have white potatoes in them. White potatoes are very starchy and hard to digest and yet it is in many of the "better" foods. I disagree that the ingredient list is not important. It is important. Knowledge of why the ingredients are there is also important. White potatoes are another form of filler. There are other things in these "higher quality" foods that are not good for a dog but I won't go into it. If a person cannot find or make the food that their pet may need for a particular problem then obviously the RX diet must be used. It's a shame that there are so few really good foods out there.