Feedback on Grade 3 Luxating Patella

[Yorkiedaze]

Originally Posted by yorkiesrock

I am so happy to hear Zada is doing excellent after the surgery. I don't want to sound disgusting, but since she had both legs done at the same time was she able to squat in order to go to the bathroom? I am just thinking the days right after the surgery will be painful for them to do this.

Yes, and she was able to walk around just fine. She even wanted to run, but I kept her on a leash so she wouldn't. Just takes baby steps so they don't injure themselves and have to go back in for more surgery.

[molly]

Ginger had surgery for Luxating Patella Grade 3 on both knees last July 31. Before I decided to proceed with the surgery, she has been monitored by an Ortho specialist for a year. Although she had only limped once and she never appear to be in pain. Both her vet and the ortho recommend surgery because of the possibility of early occurence of Arthritis and the last time she was checked by the ortho, her knees got a little worse although she still did not manifest any symtoms. Anyways, my total vet fee was $3250.24 excluding the follow-up Xrays and the 8 series of Adequan injection. 12 days post-op, she is able to get around just fine although i still confined her to a small room.
Goodluck on your baby!

[yorkiesrock]

I am so glad to hear Ginger is doing so well and it has only been 12 days since her surgery. If I decide to go through with it I hope my Bachee has the same luck. My vet said the same thing, that since he doesn't have arthritis and is in no pain then it's best to do it now before the arthritis sets in. I have been doing tons of research and most of the websites say to have suregery on grade 3 to prevent arthritis and also to prevent a torn ligament which is also very painful. It is looking more and more likely that I will go through with it. I haven't been able to speak to the specialist yet because he is on vacation. He gets back this week. I was hoping to be able to try a treatment with vitamins first but after what I have read it seems like the best form of treatment for grade 3 LP is surgery. My vet did tell me the surgeon doesn't like to both knees at once. I wanted to get it over with in one shot. I will ask him abut this again. How old is your Ginger? Were the injections of Adequin for pain? Did you have to administer them to Ginger yourself?

[molly]

Originally Posted by yorkiesrock

I am so glad to hear Ginger is doing so well and it has only been 12 days since her surgery. If I decide to go through with it I hope my Bachee has the same luck. My vet said the same thing, that since he doesn't have arthritis and is in no pain then it's best to do it now before the arthritis sets in. I have been doing tons of research and most of the websites say to have suregery on grade 3 to prevent arthritis and also to prevent a torn ligament which is also very painful. It is looking more and more likely that I will go through with it. I haven't been able to speak to the specialist yet because he is on vacation. He gets back this week. I was hoping to be able to try a treatment with vitamins first but after what I have read it seems like the best form of treatment for grade 3 LP is surgery. My vet did tell me the surgeon doesn't like to both knees at once. I wanted to get it over with in one shot. I will ask him abut this again. How old is your Ginger? Were the injections of Adequin for pain? Did you have to administer them to Ginger yourself?

Hi, Adequan is an anti-inflammatory and it helps with pain too. It is given 2x/week for 8 doses. The first 3 doses was given by the Ortho surgeon which is a little far from our place so he suggested to take Ginger to her Primary Vet to give the succeeding doses. She will get her 5th dose tomorrow. I feel for you. That was exactly how i feel before Ginger had surgery.Now the surgery is over, the recovery process is another struggle. She has to be confined in small place (since we never placed her in a cage). No jumping, no strenous activities for a month which is very hard because I have 3 other dogs running around and sometimes Ginger wants to join them. I took a day off for almost 2 weeks to take care of her. I allowed her to take small walks in a confined area, isolate her to my other dogs and basically, she is on my lap most of the time. I can't do anything because of that. Anyways, keep us updated about your baby. PM me if you have other questions. Goodluck and I will be praying for your baby.

[Hickey007]

Since you were asking about those who didn't show any signs I figured I'd jump in and share our experiences.

Reagan also has/had grade 3 LP in both legs. I think is was the beginning of March(or end of Feb) that we had surgery for her right leg. The specialist I saw will not do both at one time no matter the size of the dog (I'm not saying you should do only one at a time I'm saying we were only able to do one at a time). Which I'm kinda glad about now because I can compare the two legs. I didn't notice any signs in Reagan. She was in no pain, which my spec. says that if its hereditary and not caused by an injury then they generally have no pain because they are used to it they've dealt with it for so long. She didn't limp, and while now I can see that her left leg(the one we have not done surgery on yet) is turned outward a bit, I wouldn't have noticed had I not been able to compare a good leg/knee with a bad one. When the vet saw her walk he said that "she does wlak a bit choppy" but since she had always had problems it was nothing new and I didn't notice it.

Its kinda funny how similar my story is to yours. When we first got Reagan it was on a Thursday and I took her to my vet the following day. Well I didn't see my regular vet (who I trust completely) I saw another one and she mentioned her knees but said that sometimes puppies are like that and they'll get better once she gets a bit older. And like you had she said this is a serious problem I could've taken Reagan back but then again like you I don't know that I could've. Also the only signs that I really noticed is that her legs popped when I picked up. It was to the point that I would cringe almost when they did it cause I felt bad but it never seemed to bother her a bit. She has honestly never made a peep or limped or anything that would make me think she was in pain. The main reason I had the surgery is because I flat out asked the specialist would you do it and he said if it were my dog yes, so we did. You know no Reagan is fine but what about in 5 years? Do I really want to have a dog that can't walk or that I have to carry outside to go potty. I mean its one thing if that's what happens but if I could've prevented it, this is all I could think of....sorry for the novel.

[Hickey007]

Originally Posted by Yorkiedaze

Yes, and she was able to walk around just fine. She even wanted to run, but I kept her on a leash so she wouldn't. Just takes baby steps so they don't injure themselves and have to go back in for more surgery.

Reagan was the same way, I was surprised how quick they come around. Reagan is one of those dogs that scratches with her back legs after she goes potty and kept doing that like within a couple of days after surgery and I would have to stop her real quick.

[yorkiesrock]

Originally Posted by Hickey007

Since you were asking about those who didn't show any signs I figured I'd jump in and share our experiences.

Reagan also has/had grade 3 LP in both legs. I think is was the beginning of March(or end of Feb) that we had surgery for her right leg. The specialist I saw will not do both at one time no matter the size of the dog (I'm not saying you should do only one at a time I'm saying we were only able to do one at a time). Which I'm kinda glad about now because I can compare the two legs. I didn't notice any signs in Reagan. She was in no pain, which my spec. says that if its hereditary and not caused by an injury then they generally have no pain because they are used to it they've dealt with it for so long. She didn't limp, and while now I can see that her left leg(the one we have not done surgery on yet) is turned outward a bit, I wouldn't have noticed had I not been able to compare a good leg/knee with a bad one. When the vet saw her walk he said that "she does wlak a bit choppy" but since she had always had problems it was nothing new and I didn't notice it.

Its kinda funny how similar my story is to yours. When we first got Reagan it was on a Thursday and I took her to my vet the following day. Well I didn't see my regular vet (who I trust completely) I saw another one and she mentioned her knees but said that sometimes puppies are like that and they'll get better once she gets a bit older. And like you had she said this is a serious problem I could've taken Reagan back but then again like you I don't know that I could've. Also the only signs that I really noticed is that her legs popped when I picked up. It was to the point that I would cringe almost when they did it cause I felt bad but it never seemed to bother her a bit. She has honestly never made a peep or limped or anything that would make me think she was in pain. The main reason I had the surgery is because I flat out asked the specialist would you do it and he said if it were my dog yes, so we did. You know no Reagan is fine but what about in 5 years? Do I really want to have a dog that can't walk or that I have to carry outside to go potty. I mean its one thing if that's what happens but if I could've prevented it, this is all I could think of....sorry for the novel.

Don't apologize for your long post. It was very helpful to me. I was concerned that I was the only one who had a Yorkie that didn't really show any signs of pain. I saw another vet yesterday, it was just a coincidence because my usual vet was on vacation and my poor baby has conjunctivitis, but anyway this vet also noticed the LP. He made me feel it pop in and out and I cringed and felt so bad for my baby but he didn't even make a peep. Now I need to wait for the ortho. specialist to get back from vacation so I can have a consultation with him and then decide if I go ahead with it. I think I will also just ask him point blank if he was your dog would you do the surgery to him? I am so glad to hear Reagan bounced back so quickly. How is she feeling now? When will you have the surgery for the other leg?

[Hickey007]

Thanks, she is doing very well. Running around just like before she had the surgery. I think for the most part they do return to normal and don't have many problems. I don't think, though I could be wrong, that I've heard any horror stories with the surgery. The spec. said that we could do the next knee immediately or a lot of people give it a couple months break. I think we are going to wait until just after Christmas. He said that unless she starts having problems this should be ok. I'm waiting simply because Reagan loves being outside and is outside a good part of the day when the weather is nice. Her first surgery put her out of commission for pretty much all of spring and if we had gone ahead with the next leg now fall would be out too. I'd rather do it when she's going to be inside more anyway like winter.

Like I said earlier I know the cringe feeling. My sister actually has felt the popping several times too. She has also done the cringe move and set her down b/c it was popping, but like you said it just doesn't seem to bother them. We were really hesitant about the surgery too, like you. It seemed strange that she would need the surgery, especially as costly as it is, when she isn't even phased by it. I think once I had left the specialists office there was no longer a doubt in my mind. I had really gotten a good feeling from him and he wasn't trying to pressure me at all. He said to go home and research it and if I decided to go ahead to call and make an appointment. Go in with some questions, and don't hesitate spending how much ever time needed talking to him, you should feel comfortable with it before you go ahead with the surgery.

[yorkiesrock]

Originally Posted by Hickey007

Thanks, she is doing very well. Running around just like before she had the surgery. I think for the most part they do return to normal and don't have many problems. I don't think, though I could be wrong, that I've heard any horror stories with the surgery. The spec. said that we could do the next knee immediately or a lot of people give it a couple months break. I think we are going to wait until just after Christmas. He said that unless she starts having problems this should be ok. I'm waiting simply because Reagan loves being outside and is outside a good part of the day when the weather is nice. Her first surgery put her out of commission for pretty much all of spring and if we had gone ahead with the next leg now fall would be out too. I'd rather do it when she's going to be inside more anyway like winter.

Like I said earlier I know the cringe feeling. My sister actually has felt the popping several times too. She has also done the cringe move and set her down b/c it was popping, but like you said it just doesn't seem to bother them. We were really hesitant about the surgery too, like you. It seemed strange that she would need the surgery, especially as costly as it is, when she isn't even phased by it. I think once I had left the specialists office there was no longer a doubt in my mind. I had really gotten a good feeling from him and he wasn't trying to pressure me at all. He said to go home and research it and if I decided to go ahead to call and make an appointment. Go in with some questions, and don't hesitate spending how much ever time needed talking to him, you should feel comfortable with it before you go ahead with the surgery.

I am so glad to hear that Reagan is doing well. I made an appointment with the ortho specialist this morning. I am going to see him next week. I have so many questions that I need to write them down. The most important one I think is to ask him what are the pros and cons of surgery? I have many more but what questions did you ask? I am sure you thought of something I didn't so please let me know as many questions as you can, thanks.

[Hickey007]

I don't know for sure that I did or didn't ask any of these but I think some that will be great for you to make a decision would be...

-What is most likely going to happen to my dog down the line if I don't do it?
and the opposite of that What kind of life will my dog have if I do do it, will I need to restrict any physical activity at all after recovery?
-I would make sure he/she tells you what exactly is going to happen during surgery, what he/she does to the knee to fix it and even what exactly is wrong with it now. Just to better understand it, I know sometimes all we really know is that its something with the knees and its called a LP.
-You can ask about pain, if you don't do the surgery will he have pain later on down the road. With this maybe bring up the fact that you haven't seen your dog limping or appear to be in any pain at all and see what he/she has to say about it.
-I would ask about recovery. What am I required to do during recovery, how long will I be doing it, what is normal or to be expected out of the dog during surgery, how much will he want to walk on in etc? Also how long does he have to stay there, I think they usually stay overnight, our did anyways.
-One thing that my Dr. said is that if I were to go online and look that there was a something rate (I don't know the exact number) of these surgeries didn't take that would need to be redone, well for him that isn't good enough he said that they shoot for 100% accuracy. I don't know how realistic that is but it is something to ask about. How many of these type of surgeries that they perform need to be reoperated on?
-One other thing I can recommend from experience if you do go foward with the surgery, maybe closer to time for the surgery ask about the meds. If your dog doesn't like taking them is it ok to mix them with anything(if they are liquids) or other tips that may make it easier. For us it was, sorry for the language pure hell to give them to her. They were liquids and you know you are kinda worried about how to hold them when giving the meds to them due to the recent surgery and leg and all. We did mix them with foods but it didn't help but maybe your dr. will be able to help or knock on wood maybe you won't have any issues with this.
-Then finally just the obvious does he/she recommend doing the surgery.

Obviously a lot of these are what ifs and they won't be able to tell you definately that your dog will indeed not be able to walk in 5 years if you don't do it or that your dog will have the perfect recovery or what not but they can give you an idea or tell you what is most likely to happen. Mainly just ask enough that you are comfortable with your decision one way or another and also that you are comfortable with the dr. who's going to be doing it. If you decide to go through with it, it'd be easier knowing you trust the guy in charge.

[kalina82]

Originally Posted by Hickey007

I don't know for sure that I did or didn't ask any of these but I think some that will be great for you to make a decision would be...

-What is most likely going to happen to my dog down the line if I don't do it?
and the opposite of that What kind of life will my dog have if I do do it, will I need to restrict any physical activity at all after recovery?
-I would make sure he/she tells you what exactly is going to happen during surgery, what he/she does to the knee to fix it and even what exactly is wrong with it now. Just to better understand it, I know sometimes all we really know is that its something with the knees and its called a LP.
-You can ask about pain, if you don't do the surgery will he have pain later on down the road. With this maybe bring up the fact that you haven't seen your dog limping or appear to be in any pain at all and see what he/she has to say about it.
-I would ask about recovery. What am I required to do during recovery, how long will I be doing it, what is normal or to be expected out of the dog during surgery, how much will he want to walk on in etc? Also how long does he have to stay there, I think they usually stay overnight, our did anyways.
-One thing that my Dr. said is that if I were to go online and look that there was a something rate (I don't know the exact number) of these surgeries didn't take that would need to be redone, well for him that isn't good enough he said that they shoot for 100% accuracy. I don't know how realistic that is but it is something to ask about. How many of these type of surgeries that they perform need to be reoperated on?
-One other thing I can recommend from experience if you do go foward with the surgery, maybe closer to time for the surgery ask about the meds. If your dog doesn't like taking them is it ok to mix them with anything(if they are liquids) or other tips that may make it easier. For us it was, sorry for the language pure hell to give them to her. They were liquids and you know you are kinda worried about how to hold them when giving the meds to them due to the recent surgery and leg and all. We did mix them with foods but it didn't help but maybe your dr. will be able to help or knock on wood maybe you won't have any issues with this.
-Then finally just the obvious does he/she recommend doing the surgery.

Obviously a lot of these are what ifs and they won't be able to tell you definately that your dog will indeed not be able to walk in 5 years if you don't do it or that your dog will have the perfect recovery or what not but they can give you an idea or tell you what is most likely to happen. Mainly just ask enough that you are comfortable with your decision one way or another and also that you are comfortable with the dr. who's going to be doing it. If you decide to go through with it, it'd be easier knowing you trust the guy in charge.

Excellent Questions to ask!!!

[yorkiesrock]

Originally Posted by Hickey007

I don't know for sure that I did or didn't ask any of these but I think some that will be great for you to make a decision would be...

-What is most likely going to happen to my dog down the line if I don't do it?
and the opposite of that What kind of life will my dog have if I do do it, will I need to restrict any physical activity at all after recovery?
-I would make sure he/she tells you what exactly is going to happen during surgery, what he/she does to the knee to fix it and even what exactly is wrong with it now. Just to better understand it, I know sometimes all we really know is that its something with the knees and its called a LP.
-You can ask about pain, if you don't do the surgery will he have pain later on down the road. With this maybe bring up the fact that you haven't seen your dog limping or appear to be in any pain at all and see what he/she has to say about it.
-I would ask about recovery. What am I required to do during recovery, how long will I be doing it, what is normal or to be expected out of the dog during surgery, how much will he want to walk on in etc? Also how long does he have to stay there, I think they usually stay overnight, our did anyways.
-One thing that my Dr. said is that if I were to go online and look that there was a something rate (I don't know the exact number) of these surgeries didn't take that would need to be redone, well for him that isn't good enough he said that they shoot for 100% accuracy. I don't know how realistic that is but it is something to ask about. How many of these type of surgeries that they perform need to be reoperated on?
-One other thing I can recommend from experience if you do go foward with the surgery, maybe closer to time for the surgery ask about the meds. If your dog doesn't like taking them is it ok to mix them with anything(if they are liquids) or other tips that may make it easier. For us it was, sorry for the language pure hell to give them to her. They were liquids and you know you are kinda worried about how to hold them when giving the meds to them due to the recent surgery and leg and all. We did mix them with foods but it didn't help but maybe your dr. will be able to help or knock on wood maybe you won't have any issues with this.
-Then finally just the obvious does he/she recommend doing the surgery.

Obviously a lot of these are what ifs and they won't be able to tell you definately that your dog will indeed not be able to walk in 5 years if you don't do it or that your dog will have the perfect recovery or what not but they can give you an idea or tell you what is most likely to happen. Mainly just ask enough that you are comfortable with your decision one way or another and also that you are comfortable with the dr. who's going to be doing it. If you decide to go through with it, it'd be easier knowing you trust the guy in charge.

Thank you so much, great questions. I am printing them up right now.

[yorkiesrock]

I have wonderful news!!! I took Bachee to the orthopedic surgeon yesterday and he said Bachee doesn't need surgery !!! He told me he only has between a grade 1 and 2 luxating patella. He didn't feel any arthritis and since he isn't showing any signs of pain then he doesn't need to be operated on. He could stay his whole life like this or get worse, I pray that doesn't happen. If he starts to show signs of pain then he said to call him and after asking me several questions he can decide if surgeon is necessary. He also said he has a 10 year old dog who has had a grade 3 LP and he is fine and doesn't need surgery. I was so happy with this news I felt like hugging the surgeon--LOL

Thanks to everyone for all the feedback and advice you gave me on this condition. I am very well educated on LP's now and will know what will happen in the future if he gets worse, which again I pray doesn't happen.

[kalina82]

Originally Posted by yorkiesrock

I have wonderful news!!! I took Bachee to the orthopedic surgeon yesterday and he said Bachee doesn't need surgery !!! He told me he only has between a grade 1 and 2 luxating patella. He didn't feel any arthritis and since he isn't showing any signs of pain then he doesn't need to be operated on. He could stay his whole life like this or get worse, I pray that doesn't happen. If he starts to show signs of pain then he said to call him and after asking me several questions he can decide if surgeon is necessary. He also said he has a 10 year old dog who has had a grade 3 LP and he is fine and doesn't need surgery. I was so happy with this news I felt like hugging the surgeon--LOL

Thanks to everyone for all the feedback and advice you gave me on this condition. I am very well educated on LP's now and will know what will happen in the future if he gets worse, which again I pray doesn't happen.

oh that's wonderful!!!

[Hickey007]

That is good to hear. I know hearing that put you at ease. None of us ever want our pups to have to go through surgery.

Did he say to limit Bachee in anyway, jumping, running or anything? Just in case others may be in your same situation now or in the future they might want to know, also I'm a little curious myself (not for any reason in particular or anything).

Again its wonderful news to hear.