pros/cons of dentistry (NOT cleaning)for our guys?

[Lovetodream88]

Originally Posted by airplane

Thanks ladyjane for sharing that. It definitely makes me think about things. It just seems like it’s one of those things where I just don’t know. This same doctor has done dental work on Bijou before in the past where Bijou was put under general anesthesia before with x rays and everything, as well as other doctors at the same clinic and at other clinics before in the past. Bijou has always done anesthesia before. Maybe one has to fully be aware of Bijou’s file and history. I just don’t know what all the factors were that were considered for Bijou, for this time, to not do general anesthesia or x rays. I do know age was definitely one of the factors and this doctor convinced me that when they are that old that sedation was much better cause they’re far less likely to die. How would a pet parent question a vet with 25 years experience when he says something like that? Me and every other pet parent are faced with the issue of having to put our trust in the vets judgement. Of course I could find a different vet with a different opinion and have Bijou been put under general anesthesia this time, but without the training and experience I can’t critique the correctness of either opinion that different vets might have. At some point in time you just have to put your trust in a particular vet, and trust that they are doing what’s best for your pet.

Sedation doesn’t make them far less likely to die it has the same risks. It’s good to have trust in your vet but you also need to know the basics because you are the advocate for your dog. I disagree with what your vet did especially for a tooth to be removed which is painful and I continue to encourage you too really think about it before doing it that way again.

[JennaPenny]

Thanks, everyone. This was all extremely helpful. I knew about the type, LadyJane, but the monitoring is actually new. I mean, yes, I knew monitoring the vitals were extremely important- but I had no idea that one person only for it was the best thing.

We've found out- tentatively- that, despite them looking over her mouth thoroughly during spay, that she has two deciduous teeth, molars-and that it was a partial baby molar (most likely) that broke off. None of her adult teeth during the cursory examination were broken. At all. We definitely have a piece of broken tooth, came out of her mouth on husband's hand, but not her adult or canines. She has the exam next Friday and if she shows a molar after the exam (when she's under general anesthesia) that needs a canal we'll be going ahead and doing that at the vet dentists. The fact that the tooth after cleaning- the piece that chipped- showed that much decay when she has relatively clean teeth with only a little bit of tartar, tells the vet that she's very likely right, but obviously can't tell until the exam.

So, that's the update. Thank you so much for all of your information, it really made a difference.

[Lovetodream88]

Originally Posted by JennaPenny

Thanks, everyone. This was all extremely helpful. I knew about the type, LadyJane, but the monitoring is actually new. I mean, yes, I knew monitoring the vitals were extremely important- but I had no idea that one person only for it was the best thing.

We've found out- tentatively- that, despite them looking over her mouth thoroughly during spay, that she has two deciduous teeth, molars-and that it was a partial baby molar (most likely) that broke off. None of her adult teeth during the cursory examination were broken. At all. We definitely have a piece of broken tooth, came out of her mouth on husband's hand, but not her adult or canines. She has the exam next Friday and if she shows a molar after the exam (when she's under general anesthesia) that needs a canal we'll be going ahead and doing that at the vet dentists. The fact that the tooth after cleaning- the piece that chipped- showed that much decay when she has relatively clean teeth with only a little bit of tartar, tells the vet that she's very likely right, but obviously can't tell until the exam.

So, that's the update. Thank you so much for all of your information, it really made a difference.

That is a very important thing that should be done when any dog is under anesthesia for anything. If nothing surgical needs to be done during dentals my vet is normally the one who monitors stats. Hopefully it was just a baby tooth. Keep keeping us updated

[ladyjane]

Originally Posted by JennaPenny

Thanks, everyone. This was all extremely helpful. I knew about the type, LadyJane, but the monitoring is actually new. I mean, yes, I knew monitoring the vitals were extremely important- but I had no idea that one person only for it was the best thing.

We've found out- tentatively- that, despite them looking over her mouth thoroughly during spay, that she has two deciduous teeth, molars-and that it was a partial baby molar (most likely) that broke off. None of her adult teeth during the cursory examination were broken. At all. We definitely have a piece of broken tooth, came out of her mouth on husband's hand, but not her adult or canines. She has the exam next Friday and if she shows a molar after the exam (when she's under general anesthesia) that needs a canal we'll be going ahead and doing that at the vet dentists. The fact that the tooth after cleaning- the piece that chipped- showed that much decay when she has relatively clean teeth with only a little bit of tartar, tells the vet that she's very likely right, but obviously can't tell until the exam.

So, that's the update. Thank you so much for all of your information, it really made a difference.

I know someone who recently almost lost a pup because no one was monitoring the vital signs during a dental. It is a long story....but, if a pup is in even slight distress during an anesthetic procedure, it will show up in the VS. Then, the situation can be reversed...if it goes on to the next level, it becomes an emergency. Very very scary.

[ladyjane]

Originally Posted by Lovetodream88

That is a very important thing that should be done when any dog is under anesthesia for anything. If nothing surgical needs to be done during dentals my vet is normally the one who monitors stats. Hopefully it was just a baby tooth. Keep keeping us updated

No way a vet can monitor vital signs during anesthesia! That is totally not protocol. The vet has more important things to do.

[ladyjane]

Some helpful links. The second one says that "ideally" someone should be a dedicated person. I can tell you that I would never ever leave one of my pups at a place that didn't have a dedicated person monitoring VS during anesthesia. Just reading the list of everything that must be done and recorded says it all in my opinion.

VetFolio

Academy of Veterinary Technicians in Anesthesia / Analgesia ACVAA

[Lovetodream88]

Originally Posted by ladyjane

No way a vet can monitor vital signs during anesthesia! That is totally not protocol. The vet has more important things to do.

I was talking about dentals not regular surgeries. On dentals a tech normally does them and the vet is watching the vitals.

[ladyjane]

Originally Posted by Lovetodream88

I was talking about dentals not regular surgeries. On dentals a tech normally does them and the vet is watching the vitals.

I find that doubtful. A vet has to be around to oversee and is there for extractions, but I highly doubt any vet is just sitting there monitoring vital signs.

[Lovetodream88]

Originally Posted by ladyjane

I find that doubtful. A vet has to be around to oversee and is there for extractions, but I highly doubt any vet is just sitting there monitoring vital signs.

Well I'm just going by the one I personally saw which was a dental without extractions and then what I was told and taught in my Vet Assistant classes. I'm sure some vets do it other ways and do what works best for them.

[ladyjane]

Originally Posted by Lovetodream88

Well I'm just going by the one I personally saw which was a dental without extractions and then what I was told and taught in my Vet Assistant classes. I'm sure some vets do it other ways and do what works best for them.

Recommendation by AAHA (and I "think" required for accredation) is for a dedicated tech for vital signs.
I am going to ask my vet tomorrow.
It is not about "what works for the vet"...it is about the safest procedures for our pets.

[Lovetodream88]

Originally Posted by ladyjane

Recommendation by AAHA (and I "think" required for accredation) is for a dedicated tech for vital signs.
I am going to ask my vet tomorrow.
It is not about "what works for the vet"...it is about the safest procedures for our pets.

They do that for sure in surgery’s. Maybe a different tech was watching the stats and I missed it or was so overwhelmed I didn’t pay attention and just figured she was watching it because it appeared that way. I did my shadowing before we learned about dentals but I’m pretty positive she said that the vet is the one who normally monitors watches vitals and that unless there is dental surgery required that the techs do the dentals.

[ladyjane]

Originally Posted by Lovetodream88

They do that for sure in surgery’s. Maybe a different tech was watching the stats and I missed it or was so overwhelmed I didn’t pay attention and just figured she was watching it because it appeared that way. I did my shadowing before we learned about dentals but I’m pretty positive she said that the vet is the one who normally monitors watches vitals and that unless there is dental surgery required that the techs do the dentals.

She may have just been referring to the fact that the techs do the dentals but a vet must be supervising.

Personally, I would ask. I would not allow a dental to be done on one of mine without one dedicated person monitoring VS. Way too much can go wrong.

I am going to ask my vet today about this...I know that there are some things that AAHA requires for accreditation and some things that give extra points. Dental xrays are now strongly encouraged and they get extra points for them doing them. The dental specialist I use sometimes told me a few years ago that no vet should do dentals without doing xrays because so much can be missed. I was so happy when my vet started doing them. I "think" the monitoring thing is required. I will let you know what I find out.

[ladyjane]

Here it is...I don't need to ask them. As soon as I posted the above I realized I should be able to google it..

This is such an important topic. Whenever I hear about a healthy pet dying during a dental I always wonder if proper protocols were in place.

This also addresses those awful non anesthetic dentals saying they are "unacceptable and below the standard of care". I wish people understood this..makes me sick to my stomach to see this being done.

If you read about how much there is that needs to be monitored, you will understand how there is NO way two people could do this with one being the vet. If a vet is having the tech do dentals, it makes no sense the vet would be sitting doing the other stuff that does not require a vet to do. Vets are way too busy and are apt to be called out of that area for another patient.

https://www.aaha.org/public_document...guidelines.pdf

[Lovetodream88]

Originally Posted by ladyjane

She may have just been referring to the fact that the techs do the dentals but a vet must be supervising.

Personally, I would ask. I would not allow a dental to be done on one of mine without one dedicated person monitoring VS. Way too much can go wrong.

I am going to ask my vet today about this...I know that there are some things that AAHA requires for accreditation and some things that give extra points. Dental xrays are now strongly encouraged and they get extra points for them doing them. The dental specialist I use sometimes told me a few years ago that no vet should do dentals without doing xrays because so much can be missed. I was so happy when my vet started doing them. I "think" the monitoring thing is required. I will let you know what I find out.

I know someone was monitoring there was the vet there and another tech but I got swept away to help hold a dog while they were dealing with her wounds from a dog attack. That turned my stomach worse then the surgeries I watched. On Callie’s last dental the X-ray is what told them one of her molars needed to come out.

[Lovetodream88]

Originally Posted by ladyjane

Here it is...I don't need to ask them. As soon as I posted the above I realized I should be able to google it..

This is such an important topic. Whenever I hear about a healthy pet dying during a dental I always wonder if proper protocols were in place.

This also addresses those awful non anesthetic dentals saying they are "unacceptable and below the standard of care". I wish people understood this..makes me sick to my stomach to see this being done.

If you read about how much there is that needs to be monitored, you will understand how there is NO way two people could do this with one being the vet. If a vet is having the tech do dentals, it makes no sense the vet would be sitting doing the other stuff that does not require a vet to do. Vets are way too busy and are apt to be called out of that area for another patient.

https://www.aaha.org/public_document...guidelines.pdf

I feel bad for the people who have no idea about how bad of a thing it is to not do the anesthesia dentals and get taken by those people who do the non anesthesia dentals. So many things that are wrong about it. My vet doesn’t do regular appointments in the morning on surgerie/dental days which are twice a week in the mornings. I enjoyed watching the whole before surgery system. She does a check of one of the pets and would take notes and write up their aneshesia and surgery plan for each pet one at a time. She would also quiz me on stuff. Like their was a male Pom puppy who only had one testicle drop so she asked me what that was called. I’m getting off topic though lol.