Orijen Regional Red

[cellanjie]

Originally Posted by Lovetodream88

We actually went over this in class and my instructor said she finds it hard to believe that a food could have all the stuff a puppy needs and an adult and a senior because they all have different needs.Honestly I'm with her.

From what I researched, the non-single Acana and Regional Red are fine for small breed puppies. I got the Acana Single for Tink as the Regional Red could cause her kidney problems as she ages. Might not, but decided not to risk it. I'm going to put then all on the Single and mix Stella's into the food to up the quality a bit. Tink will get less as she needs less protein. The puppy will get double. 2 year old will get normal mix amount.

I also got the Stella's Super Beef Meal Mixers mentioned above, Fruitables pumpkin Switch, and Fruitable's Digestive Supplement that I intend to mix into the food. The pumpkin switch in morning and Digestive supplement at night and half the suggested amount of Stella's until they seem to be handling the switch okay, at which point I'll do full.

I gave all of them some Stella's mixed into their food tonight. I did 1/2 what they have been eating and 1/2 the Mackerel. Holy Moly! They wolfed it down as if they've never eaten before in their lives. Tink went after the poor rescue to get hers as I fed Tink first and she finished while I was still mixing the rescue's food. I had to lock the rescue in the cage so she could wolf hers down and put the puppy in hers too. I've never seen any Yorkie eat like that in my life, much less all three. Evidently the Stella's and Mackerel is tasty stuff! I hope they don't all throw it up as they ate it within a blink of an eye. I won't be able to leave the puppy food out for it to free feed as the other two will eat it all. :/ Guess I'll be feeding her four times a day instead.

Thank you all so much for your help and advice. I've been stressing for several days over how to feed all three dogs. Providing what I'm doing doesn't make them sick, cause itches, or whatever, I think I may finally have it down.

[Britster]

Originally Posted by Lovetodream88

We actually went over this in class and my instructor said she finds it hard to believe that a food could have all the stuff a puppy needs and an adult and a senior because they all have different needs.Honestly I'm with her.

Meh. I've spoken to a few vets who feel otherwise including my own. They're generally just marketing. Like you can feed an adult dog Orijen Senior if you want to increase the fiber or lessen the fat. It's just a title.

There are giant breed dogs who need special food when they are growing (they actually do not suggest puppy food to giant breeds) and they need certain calcium/phosphorus ratios. But most of the Acana cal/phos are fine.

Compare a puppy formula to Acana and you won't find much difference.

[Britster]

Example:

Acana Meadowland:
Crude protein 33 %
Crude fat (min.) 17 %
Crude fiber (max.) 6 %
Moisture (max.) 12 %
Calcium (min.) 1.1 %
Phosphorus (min.) 0.9 %
Omega-6 fatty acids* (min.)
2.5 % Omega-3 fatty acids* (min.)
0.6 % DHA* (min.) 0.15 %
EPA* (min.) 0.1 %
Glucosamine* (min.) 700 mg/kg
Chondroitin sulfate* (min.) 1500 mg/kg
Metabolizable Energy is 3475 kcal/kg (396 kcal/8 oz. cup), with 34% from protein, 24% from fruits and vegetables, and 42% from animal fats.

Fromm Gold Puppy:
Guaranteed Analysis

Crude Protein 27% MIN
Crude Fat 18% MIN
Crude Fiber 6.0% MAX
Moisture 10% MAX
Omega 3 Fatty Acids 0.6% MIN
Omega 6 Fatty Acids 2.6% MIN
Calcium 1.5%
Phosphorus 1.16


Caloric Content

3,993 kcal/kg
1,815 kcal/lb
419 kcal/cup


Purina puppy;
Guaranteed Analysis:
Crude Protein (Min) 28.0%
Crude Fat (Min) 18.0%
Crude Fiber (Max) 3.0%
Moisture (Max) 12.0%
Linoleic Acid (Min) 1.6%
Calcium (Ca) (Min) 1.1%
Phosphorus (P) (Min) 0.8%
Vitamin A (Min) 15,000 IU/kg
Vitamin E (Min) 100 IU/kg
Glutamine* (Min) 1.0%
Docosahexaenoic Acid* (DHA) (Min) 0.05%

Acana duck & pear:
Crude protein (min.) 27 %
Fat content (min.) 17 %
Crude ash (max.) 8 %
Crude fibres (max.) 6 %
Moisture (max.) 12 %
Calcium (min.) 1.1 %
Phosphorus (min.) 0.8 %
Omega-6 fatty acids* (min.) 2.2 %
Omega-3 fatty acids* (min.) 0.8 %
DHA* (min.) 0.15 %
EPA* (min.) 0.1 %
Glucosamine* (min.) 1200 mg/kg
Chondroitin sulfate* (min.) 1000 mg/kg
Linoleic acid* (min.) 2.0 %
Carbohydrate ( NFE) 30 %

[cellanjie]

Originally Posted by Britster

Meh. I've spoken to a few vets who feel otherwise including my own. They're generally just marketing. Like you can feed an adult dog Orijen Senior if you want to increase the fiber or lessen the fat. It's just a title.

There are giant breed dogs who need special food when they are growing (they actually do not suggest puppy food to giant breeds) and they need certain calcium/phosphorus ratios. But most of the Acana cal/phos are fine.

Compare a puppy formula to Acana and you won't find much difference.

I agree with you on regular Acana. It's perfect for puppies. The "single" not so much, or at least the one I bought.

[cellanjie]

I hear what you are saying, but I wouldn't feed those puppy foods to my dogs as they had grains or stuff that might give them the itchies. I looked at the Fromm Gold, read the ingredients, and put it right back on the shelf. It was disappointing. All of the puppy foods I looked at with the exception of Orijen, I would not feed to my dogs.

I'm happy with the Acana. I bought a bag of Orijen Puppy just in case the pup would not eat the Acana, but am going to return it. The Acana is good food all my dogs love it which is a big plus. The Stella's is just to add a bit of meat protein and added flavor. When I purchased it, it was to help cover up the pumpkin, but they loved it so that I plan to continue to add it with varying amounts depending on the age of the dog (unless my vet is off his rocker and it's not something I need to worry about.)

Orijen Regional Red is 85-15 (Meat to veggies/fruits)
Acana regular is 70-30
Acana singles is 50-50

I realize I should divide the fat by the proteins and some of that meat has water that needs to be deducted, but from reading the labels and using my phone calculator in the store, the "single" seemed to have a high amount of legume protein. I may have very well made a mistake. Even if I didn't, legume protein might be just fine, but I prefer more meat, especially for my pup since she's been on a crap diet the first four months of her life.

[Lovetodream88]

Originally Posted by cellanjie

I hear what you are saying, but I wouldn't feed those puppy foods to my dogs as they had grains or stuff that might give them the itchies. I looked at the Fromm Gold, read the ingredients, and put it right back on the shelf. It was disappointing. All of the puppy foods I looked at with the exception of Orijen, I would not feed to my dogs.

I'm happy with the Acana. I bought a bag of Orijen Puppy just in case the pup would not eat the Acana, but am going to return it. The Acana is good food all my dogs love it which is a big plus. The Stella's is just to add a bit of meat protein and added flavor. When I purchased it, it was to help cover up the pumpkin, but they loved it so that I plan to continue to add it with varying amounts depending on the age of the dog (unless my vet is off his rocker and it's not something I need to worry about.)

Orijen Regional Red is 85-15 (Meat to veggies/fruits)
Acana regular is 70-30
Acana singles is 50-50

I realize I should divide the fat by the proteins and some of that meat has water that needs to be deducted, but from reading the labels and using my phone calculator in the store, the "single" seemed to have a high amount of legume protein. I may have very well made a mistake. Even if I didn't, legume protein might be just fine, but I prefer more meat, especially for my pup since she's been on a crap diet the first four months of her life.

Grains and stuff are not bad. Food allergies are actually rare and it's normally environmentally related. When looking into food you should really look into whether nutritionists are on staff and whether they do food trails. Like I said before we just went over nutrition in my vet assistant class. Some of the foods that do that are Royal Canin, Hills, and Purina. So many of these fly by night company's put all there money into advertising to make people think you need grain free and such food and that's just not true. If your dog had an actual food allergy they would have to be on prescription food that is made in a special factory where the food doesn't come into contact with the allergies. Regular off the shelf dog food all comes in contact with each other. Some may say grain free but they come in contact with that grain in the factory.

[cellanjie]

Originally Posted by Lovetodream88

Grains and stuff are not bad. Food allergies are actually rare and it's normally environmentally related. When looking into food you should really look into whether nutritionists are on staff and whether they do food trails. Like I said before we just went over nutrition in my vet assistant class. Some of the foods that do that are Royal Canin, Hills, and Purina. So many of these fly by night company's put all there money into advertising to make people think you need grain free and such food and that's just not true. If your dog had an actual food allergy they would have to be on prescription food that is made in a special factory where the food doesn't come into contact with the allergies. Regular off the shelf dog food all comes in contact with each other. Some may say grain free but they come in contact with that grain in the factory.

Champion has been in business for 32 years. I'm not sure it qualifies as a "fly by night" company.

Sorry. I disagree with you. I realize that many allergies are due to other things, but some foods such as the three you mentioned above, do cause some dogs the itchies. Royal Canin cost me $1300 in vet bills. I won't even get started on what a scam Hills is and how sick it made my dog after the vet prescribed it due to the Royal Canin episode. I've got a dog on Purina right now that has the house so noxious we can barely stand to be in it; thus the need to switch quickly rather than wait another month as I had planned.

Just halving the amount of Purina has made the air quite a bit fresher around here. She's already scratching less as noticed by her coat not being a tangled mess this morning when I brushed her and not waking once to the "thump-thump-thump". She certainly rested easier last night. Could it be a coincidence or due to the full tummy? Sure. Time will tell.

As for switching Tink to Orijen Regional Red all those years ago, the vet said she would always be plagued with pancreatitis attacks, especially since the Hills prescription nearly did her in after the Royal Canin. He warned me that I was going to kill that dog with the Orijen as it is "too rich" for her sensitive tummy and insisted I switch back to purchasing Hills from him. I found another vet.

She was also an itchy dog constantly scratching. After the switch, she never got pancreatitis again. Her skin was no longer dry, all her sores healed, never to return regardless of the season or where we lived. Maybe she just outgrew her itches and pancreatitis at the time we switched to Orijen. I'll never know because I won't feed her cereal with mystery meat to find out.

[Britster]

^ I respect both of these opinions up there! You can go back and read many of my old posts and I used to sound exactly like cellanje. In some ways I suppose I still am.

I DO find that my own dog does best on certain types of foods. With that said, I do think grain-free is sort of gimmicky. It's almost like humans with gluten-free. Only a select few people in the world *actually* need to be gluten free. If you're just choosing to be gluten free anyhow, is it necessarily going to HURT you? Probably not. But it isn't necessarily 'better' for you either. I'm not feeding Acana just because it's grain-free.

I've been feeding Acana primarily for... seven years now? I've been slightly disappointed with some changes through the years (like I preferred the old formula that had oats in it) however it's always the food I go back to. Jackson just... does well on it. I tried doing RC, Hills, etc, a few times with crappy results. After about a month, his poop would be super soft & large, he'd be going more often, he would be itching more, his eyes would get more boogers, and he would gain weight easier. These were just observations to my naked eye.

That's not to say some dogs don't do fantastic on those formulas -- because they do. There's nothing inherently wrong with grains (including corn) if it's formulated correctly. Dogs are the ultimate scavengers. They've survived throughout time on garbage.

Like nowadays, I have no problem picking up a bag of Purina Beyond from the grocery store if I've run out of dog food. I never would've done that a few years ago lol.

Every dog is different. I'm no longer going to judge what someone decides to feed their dog (unless it's like Ol Roy, then I may cringe a little, LOL....)

PS - I think ALL Orijen and Acana formulas are made at the Kentucky plant now if you buy them in the US and they're all grain-free. So there would be no contamination with grains. They have their own plant and do not have it manufactured at another plant.

[Lovetodream88]

I was just wanting to share what I learned hoping it might help or be interesting to others. Prescription Royal Canin hypoallergenic saved my dogs life. I had tried just about every food available and all the different types. All the ones everyone says are so great like freeze dried raw and so on made her worse. She was diagnosed with IBD which is caused by food allergies. Now she only has an issue if she gets something she isn't supposed to have. After class I was concerned about her missing out on some of the senior things that can be founded uped in senior food but could not take her off of her prescription food so I found a vitamin that is for seniors that has the things suggested they need more of in it and after a few days there was a huge difference in her attitude and feistyness and that is one of the reasons I personally don't believe in all life stages because I have seen that it lacks some stuff. This is just my opinion and experience.

[cellanjie]

Originally Posted by Britster

^ I respect both of these opinions up there! You can go back and read many of my old posts and I used to sound exactly like cellanje. In some ways I suppose I still am.

I DO find that my own dog does best on certain types of foods. With that said, I do think grain-free is sort of gimmicky. It's almost like humans with gluten-free. Only a select few people in the world *actually* need to be gluten free. If you're just choosing to be gluten free anyhow, is it necessarily going to HURT you? Probably not. But it isn't necessarily 'better' for you either. I'm not feeding Acana just because it's grain-free.

I've been feeding Acana primarily for... seven years now? I've been slightly disappointed with some changes through the years (like I preferred the old formula that had oats in it) however it's always the food I go back to. Jackson just... does well on it. I tried doing RC, Hills, etc, a few times with crappy results. After about a month, his poop would be super soft & large, he'd be going more often, he would be itching more, his eyes would get more boogers, and he would gain weight easier. These were just observations to my naked eye.

That's not to say some dogs don't do fantastic on those formulas -- because they do. There's nothing inherently wrong with grains (including corn) if it's formulated correctly. Dogs are the ultimate scavengers. They've survived throughout time on garbage.

Like nowadays, I have no problem picking up a bag of Purina Beyond from the grocery store if I've run out of dog food. I never would've done that a few years ago lol.

Every dog is different. I'm no longer going to judge what someone decides to feed their dog (unless it's like Ol Roy, then I may cringe a little, LOL....)

PS - I think ALL Orijen and Acana formulas are made at the Kentucky plant now if you buy them in the US and they're all grain-free. So there would be no contamination with grains. They have their own plant and do not have it manufactured at another plant.

I agree with you on the "grain free" and "gluten" silliness, but Tink does not do well at all on foods that have it, or *something* that is in those foods that the Champion brands do not. They made her violently sick.

So far I am thrilled with the mix. They all gobbled it up again this morning and are sleeping peacefully piled on each other. No diarrhea so far. I think their calmness today *might* be due to having full tummies that they get with the ingredients that they don't experience with the cereal foods. If you could see the difference, you'd be as stunned as I am.

The rescue is a neurotic, circle running, velcro dog that I have several supplements on order to try to calm her that have yet to arrive. If I am out of sight, she goes berserk. She is afraid of everything, including the wind. She scratches. She rips out her hair. She howls while running full speed in circles. She dribbles saliva and urine everywhere out of fear and anxiety. In short, she has not been a joy to have here, but I have been determined to not give up on her.

This morning after her breakfast, my neurotic rescue went outside to potty by herself, and when done, instead of the circles, she stretched out and went to sleep on the patio. The puppy stayed out there with her after being let out to do her business instead of frantically clawing at the door to be let back inside. The rescue hasn't exhibited a single anxiety type behavior thus far today. It may have just been her time to calm down, she may revert to it later, but as of this moment I am hopeful that I might can return all that rot I purchased for her in desperation. At least I know she CAN be calm.

BTW, her stool was not rancid, nor has she had gas today which is a blessing as well. Could her neurosis simply been an upset tummy from all that she is been through? Beats me as I am not an expert. I'm just grateful to have some peace for however long it may last.

[cellanjie]

Update: I'm not so sure about this formula after all. While the rescue has been incredibly calm today and is behaving as a somewhat normal dog, they all behave as if they've been drugged. Lazy, sleepy. They do get up and play some, but right back to sleep they go.

Afraid I may have made them sick and praying their tummies are okay. I don't remember Tink sleeping this much when she was young.

[Lovetodream88]

Originally Posted by cellanjie

I agree with you on the "grain free" and "gluten" silliness, but Tink does not do well at all on foods that have it, or *something* that is in those foods that the Champion brands do not. They made her violently sick.

So far I am thrilled with the mix. They all gobbled it up again this morning and are sleeping peacefully piled on each other. No diarrhea so far. I think their calmness today *might* be due to having full tummies that they get with the ingredients that they don't experience with the cereal foods. If you could see the difference, you'd be as stunned as I am.

The rescue is a neurotic, circle running, velcro dog that I have several supplements on order to try to calm her that have yet to arrive. If I am out of sight, she goes berserk. She is afraid of everything, including the wind. She scratches. She rips out her hair. She howls while running full speed in circles. She dribbles saliva and urine everywhere out of fear and anxiety. In short, she has not been a joy to have here, but I have been determined to not give up on her.

This morning after her breakfast, my neurotic rescue went outside to potty by herself, and when done, instead of the circles, she stretched out and went to sleep on the patio. The puppy stayed out there with her after being let out to do her business instead of frantically clawing at the door to be let back inside. The rescue hasn't exhibited a single anxiety type behavior thus far today. It may have just been her time to calm down, she may revert to it later, but as of this moment I am hopeful that I might can return all that rot I purchased for her in desperation. At least I know she CAN be calm.

BTW, her stool was not rancid, nor has she had gas today which is a blessing as well. Could her neurosis simply been an upset tummy from all that she is been through? Beats me as I am not an expert. I'm just grateful to have some peace for however long it may last.

I really am glad the food is working. I guess anything is possible but normally I don't think food would change behavior much. If she still acts like that again I would look into something for anxiety just until she calms down and get comfortable. It sounds like she needs to build confidence which can be done by training, even just train to sit, lay and such. Please be careful leaving small dogs outside by themselves because they are prey for many animals. I did feed mine both Acana and orijen but she is soooooo picky and the pieces were just to big for her liking and I got tired of breaking them up.

[cellanjie]

Originally Posted by Lovetodream88

I really am glad the food is working. I guess anything is possible but normally I don't think food would change behavior much. If she still acts like that again I would look into something for anxiety just until she calms down and get comfortable. It sounds like she needs to build confidence which can be done by training, even just train to sit, lay and such. Please be careful leaving small dogs outside by themselves because they are prey for many animals. I did feed mine both Acana and orijen but she is soooooo picky and the pieces were just to big for her liking and I got tired of breaking them up.

I'm not so sure it IS working out. They're sleeping. A LOT. The peace and quiet is wonderful after the insanity we've had, but it's worrisome.

[Britster]

Originally Posted by Lovetodream88

I was just wanting to share what I learned hoping it might help or be interesting to others. Prescription Royal Canin hypoallergenic saved my dogs life. I had tried just about every food available and all the different types. All the ones everyone says are so great like freeze dried raw and so on made her worse. She was diagnosed with IBD which is caused by food allergies. Now she only has an issue if she gets something she isn't supposed to have. After class I was concerned about her missing out on some of the senior things that can be founded uped in senior food but could not take her off of her prescription food so I found a vitamin that is for seniors that has the things suggested they need more of in it and after a few days there was a huge difference in her attitude and feistyness and that is one of the reasons I personally don't believe in all life stages because I have seen that it lacks some stuff. This is just my opinion and experience.

Oh yeah, and I totally respect it! That was my main point - every dog does better on something different. Obviously for Callie, RC is a lifesaver! I would feed it too if it was what Jackson did best on. I'm happy that Callie feels better too.

PS - I feel that ANY dry kibble lacks a lot of important nutrients, no matter what. I always supplement if I want more of something. Most of it gets cooked out in the process of making kibble anyhow.

Jackson's 8 now and I started giving him GlycoFlex Stage I for joints. I've noticed a difference in the 3 months I've been giving it for sure. My vet recommended it. I also feed Grizzly fish oil especially in the winter to help with his skin, etc.

[Britster]

Originally Posted by cellanjie

Update: I'm not so sure about this formula after all. While the rescue has been incredibly calm today and is behaving as a somewhat normal dog, they all behave as if they've been drugged. Lazy, sleepy. They do get up and play some, but right back to sleep they go.

Afraid I may have made them sick and praying their tummies are okay. I don't remember Tink sleeping this much when she was young.

I think you're doing what I used to do and stressing too much
I doubt a food would make them behave drugged in that short of time.

You really have to give it months before you see real results.