Question about the protein in Innova Evo

[Jaspermom]

Originally Posted by Yorkieville200

each author stated protein shouldn't be higher than 22% for adult Yorkies, and 28% for Yorkie puppies. I've also read, that these diets are too new in dogs, that we won't know the long term effects for some time..

Everyone was raving about Innova so much recently that I went and bought some YESTERDAY and now I read this thread TODAY!!! DANG!

I don't know what to do now...

[chattiesmom]

Good luck!!!! We face hard decisions with our furkids. I think choosing the best possible food for our baby is one of the most important!

The hardest thing is that it is such a non-exact science. All most have to go on is the research that we have done independently, and our personal experience. I wish we had a veternarian on board who was a certified animal nutritionist. I understand that there are only a few in the country.

[Yorkieville200]

Originally Posted by chattiesmom

Good luck!!!! We face hard decisions with our furkids. I think choosing the best possible food for our baby is one of the most important!

The hardest thing is that it is such a non-exact science. All most have to go on is the research that we have done independently, and our personal experience. I wish we had a veternarian on board who was a certified animal nutritionist. I understand that there are only a few in the country.

I totally agree with you. I guess the thing that scares me off the high protein, is that I lost my 1st Yorkie, 10 years ago, at the age of 13 years and two months, to renal failure. Back 23 years ago, when I first got her, there wasn't any choice in premium foods, so, she was on Eukanuba's one and only formula, which (if I remember correctly) was 30% protein, which is what their Performance formula is now.

I'm not suggesting that the protein caused her kidney problems, but I find myself wondering, these years later, if i could have prevented the problem from becoming fatal so young.

[diva pup]

I am sorry I cannot remember how it was exactly explained to me by a nutritionist. But apparently Innova has almost all USABLE protein which is somewhat different in the way it is processed in the body. Excess protein goes thru the renal system and just gets peed out so it stands to reason that it would be hard on the renal system as it is working harder. BUT usable protein I am just not able to remember what he said about it
I would go to the Innova website and read up. I chose not to feed it because of the high protein, I supplement my dogs food too much as it is.

[diva pup]

I want to add that I think there are no grains in Innova evo so you might be better off comparing the protein levels in it to a raw diet rather than a kibble. I think you might find there is not QUITE as much of a difference. My gf who feeds her agility dogs a semi raw diet always adds oatmeal to their diet. But please ask your vet, he should have some working knowledge of dog nutrition, I take every label to my vet if I am changing foods. My vet does prefer the all natural foods.
Remembering also that it is a fairly new food, I think it just came out last year (I always let the pioneers try it before I do)

[Yorkieville200]

Originally Posted by diva pup

I am sorry I cannot remember how it was exactly explained to me by a nutritionist. But apparently Innova has almost all USABLE protein which is somewhat different in the way it is processed in the body. Excess protein goes thru the renal system and just gets peed out so it stands to reason that it would be hard on the renal system as it is working harder. BUT usable protein I am just not able to remember what he said about it
I would go to the Innova website and read up. I chose not to feed it because of the high protein, I supplement my dogs food too much as it is.

Yes, exactly, it goes through the liver and the kidneys, thus, making those organs, work that much harder.

After losing my Tiffany at 13, I decided to use lower protein food for my Yorkies now, than the 30% that I fed her. One of my girls is almost 10, and shows no signs of any health problems. And my tiny one just turned 7, and is doing great.

[Yorkieville200]

Originally Posted by diva pup

I want to add that I think there are no grains in Innova evo so you might be better off comparing the protein levels in it to a raw diet rather than a kibble. I think you might find there is not QUITE as much of a difference. My gf who feeds her agility dogs a semi raw diet always adds oatmeal to their diet. But please ask your vet, he should have some working knowledge of dog nutrition, I take every label to my vet if I am changing foods. My vet does prefer the all natural foods.
Remembering also that it is a fairly new food, I think it just came out last year (I always let the pioneers try it before I do)

Defintely, because protein from meat is more usable for dogs, than protein from grain. I read, rice is the most usable form of grain protein for Yorkies.

Yes, I agree with you, my girls are not going to be guinea pigs. I prefer the natural foods, too.

[Lorraine]

In my opinion, high protein diet is not meant for an average pet dog even the large breeds. It is just too 'hot' a diet. High protein high energy diets have to be used for dogs during field trials, working at herding that sort of thing but only during the season that these things are going on. During off season they are put back on lower energy diets. Dogs used in the sled pulling races etc are fed meat as the job they are doing requires the protein and energy from the food.
My opinion is based on my own experience, also in talking to many other long time very experienced show breeders that have different breeds from mine, and a friend of mine that was a field trial judge in days gone by.
People that do long distance hiking carry high protein nuts, bars etc to keep their energy up. When they get home they go back to their regular diet.
In my opinion, I don't think the Atkins diet is very good for people. Was there not a law suit not very long ago a young fellow ended up with heart disease from the high protein Atkins diet? I am not sure of the outcome, don't know if it ever went to court.
Have not people dieticians over the years warned against high protein diets? I don't know how the Atkins diet was so widely accepted. I do know in the early 70's there was a high protein diet that people were following to lose weight but were running into problems.
If people are on a high protein diet, they must drink a lot of water to flush the waste by product of protein, mainly being ammonia ions.
That high protein diet will do the same thing in dogs. On a short term for working dogs, it is required. As a general all around food, I am hard pressed to recommend it.
It does take a long time for the effects of a diet to be noticed in most cases. Feeding a high protein diet resulting in relatively quick illness symptoms may indeed be an indication of liver/kidney problems but that is not always the case.
Look at it this way. If I sat down and ate two huge steaks for dinner and a few grains, I would likely be pretty sick an hour or two later. It is possible this is what is happening with some dogs after a high protein meal. There is nothing wrong with the dog, just can't handle this kind of meal as well as the next one might. Another person could eat those same sized two steaks and a few grains for dinner and not feel a thing. It doesn't mean I have a liver problem, I just can't handle that diet as well. Would I recommend a diet like that of two steaks for dinner with a few grains on a regular basis for the person who can get away with eating that? Not likely. LOL
I am aware many of these diets put out by various dog food companies are supposed to be formulated by dieticians. However, I have no idea exactly what kind of background these people have or the reasoning behind their formulations.
What I do know, if they are wrong, it is my dog that pays the price.
I think you have to approach diets and feeding our pets with a certain amount of logic and don't fall for every new idea that comes along. Feeding trials on dogs are very difficult to do as not much of the public are game for dogs to be in feeding trials because of the requirements of the controlled feeding trial environment.
The dog food industry is not that regulated, neither is the toys, treats, etc for pets. You really do have to think for yourself and weigh what you do know about nutrition, possible dangers in anything you buy for your dog.

[limarie3]

Foods that are too high in protein are bad for yorkies. My yorkie was switched to a high protein diet because it was so highly recommended, however, two weeks later he was sick and depressed and in pain all over. We were beside ourselves. It turns out he has Pancreatitis which yorkies are predisposed to. This shows in blood work as high Lipase numbers and symptoms include: tired pup, depression, soreness, weakness, vomitting, fever, and diarhea. However, a dog doesn't need to display all of these signs and the Lipase test is not conclusive. A E1ISA for TAP and/or a TLI test should be done (blood tests). This is another reason to avoid high fatty foods - especially table scraps (more dogs come to the vet with these symptoms during thanksgiving and x-mass times).

[Yorkieville200]

Originally Posted by Lorraine

In my opinion, high protein diet is not meant for an average pet dog even the large breeds. It is just too 'hot' a diet. High protein high energy diets have to be used for dogs during field trials, working at herding that sort of thing but only during the season that these things are going on. During off season they are put back on lower energy diets. Dogs used in the sled pulling races etc are fed meat as the job they are doing requires the protein and energy from the food.
My opinion is based on my own experience, also in talking to many other long time very experienced show breeders that have different breeds from mine, and a friend of mine that was a field trial judge in days gone by.
People that do long distance hiking carry high protein nuts, bars etc to keep their energy up. When they get home they go back to their regular diet.
In my opinion, I don't think the Atkins diet is very good for people. Was there not a law suit not very long ago a young fellow ended up with heart disease from the high protein Atkins diet? I am not sure of the outcome, don't know if it ever went to court.
Have not people dieticians over the years warned against high protein diets? I don't know how the Atkins diet was so widely accepted. I do know in the early 70's there was a high protein diet that people were following to lose weight but were running into problems.
If people are on a high protein diet, they must drink a lot of water to flush the waste by product of protein, mainly being ammonia ions.
That high protein diet will do the same thing in dogs. On a short term for working dogs, it is required. As a general all around food, I am hard pressed to recommend it.
It does take a long time for the effects of a diet to be noticed in most cases. Feeding a high protein diet resulting in relatively quick illness symptoms may indeed be an indication of liver/kidney problems but that is not always the case.
Look at it this way. If I sat down and ate two huge steaks for dinner and a few grains, I would likely be pretty sick an hour or two later. It is possible this is what is happening with some dogs after a high protein meal. There is nothing wrong with the dog, just can't handle this kind of meal as well as the next one might. Another person could eat those same sized two steaks and a few grains for dinner and not feel a thing. It doesn't mean I have a liver problem, I just can't handle that diet as well. Would I recommend a diet like that of two steaks for dinner with a few grains on a regular basis for the person who can get away with eating that? Not likely. LOL
I am aware many of these diets put out by various dog food companies are supposed to be formulated by dieticians. However, I have no idea exactly what kind of background these people have or the reasoning behind their formulations.
What I do know, if they are wrong, it is my dog that pays the price.
I think you have to approach diets and feeding our pets with a certain amount of logic and don't fall for every new idea that comes along. Feeding trials on dogs are very difficult to do as not much of the public are game for dogs to be in feeding trials because of the requirements of the controlled feeding trial environment.
The dog food industry is not that regulated, neither is the toys, treats, etc for pets. You really do have to think for yourself and weigh what you do know about nutrition, possible dangers in anything you buy for your dog.

Hi, Lorraine.

I agree with you that high protein is not meant for the average dog. You've given great reasons to as to why. May I ask what food you feed your Yorkies?

Sheila

[Lorraine]

I feed a Canadian product called Go Natural manufactured here in my area. It is 24% protein 14% fat. I wean my puppies on it as well and feed it to the puppies. They are doing very well on this food and I have been feeding this one for about 2 years at least now.
I also feed the Dick Van Patten's Natural Balance in the roll, the beef flavour. The DV Natural Balance Ultra adult dry food, from the ingredients and %ages look very acceptable for Yorkies.
My dogs also get the Nutro Tartar Control treats broken up in the afternoon for their treat biscuit.

[oooweee]

One thing to consider with Innova is that your dog may not be reacting to the protein, but maybe Lactose intolerant. Innova is made with cottage cheese and this will affect a canine predisposed to lactoidal intolerance. Just a thought...

[TatumsMom]

But there are two different ones, right? Innova and Innova Evo (forgive me if I missed this being said already... just skimmed the replies). So those of you that have done the research and read the bag ingredients.... is Evo the higher in protein one? Just one quick search I did brought up this description for Innova Evo... "Innova EVO...What to feed when you can't feed raw..... Low Carb, Hi-Protein and Grain Free". So right there you're choosing a high protein formula. And they say this for the regular Innova..."natural antioxidant vitamins, beneficial probiotics and rich supply of Omega 6 and Omega 3 Essential Fatty acids" which I think is good for their coat (which is why I was trying it to begin with). I don't remember it being the Innova Evo specifically that was raved about. Tatum's been on Innova for a while now and really loves it. Hopefully it's still "good" for her. But of course, this many people will never agree on the #1 perfect food because our pups are all different.

[Yorkieville200]

Originally Posted by Lorraine

I feed a Canadian product called Go Natural manufactured here in my area. It is 24% protein 14% fat. I wean my puppies on it as well and feed it to the puppies. They are doing very well on this food and I have been feeding this one for about 2 years at least now.
I also feed the Dick Van Patten's Natural Balance in the roll, the beef flavour. The DV Natural Balance Ultra adult dry food, from the ingredients and %ages look very acceptable for Yorkies.
My dogs also get the Nutro Tartar Control treats broken up in the afternoon for their treat biscuit.

Thank you, Lorraine. I'm going to check out the DV Natural Balance Ultra, adult dry food for my girls.
Sheila

[Yorkieville200]

Originally Posted by TatumsMom

But there are two different ones, right? Innova and Innova Evo (forgive me if I missed this being said already... just skimmed the replies). So those of you that have done the research and read the bag ingredients.... is Evo the higher in protein one? Just one quick search I did brought up this description for Innova Evo... "Innova EVO...What to feed when you can't feed raw..... Low Carb, Hi-Protein and Grain Free". So right there you're choosing a high protein formula. And they say this for the regular Innova..."natural antioxidant vitamins, beneficial probiotics and rich supply of Omega 6 and Omega 3 Essential Fatty acids" which I think is good for their coat (which is why I was trying it to begin with). I don't remember it being the Innova Evo specifically that was raved about. Tatum's been on Innova for a while now and really loves it. Hopefully it's still "good" for her. But of course, this many people will never agree on the #1 perfect food because our pups are all different.

Yes, the Innova Evo is the high protein food. I think you're fine with the Innova. I wish my girls liked it, but for some reason, they weren't all that thrilled with it.

To quote Ross Becker of Good Dog Magazine, "The best food for your dog is the one that he/she will eat and do well on". So, there's really not just one food that's best for all dogs.

Sheila