Whinning Yorkie

[gemy]

Originally Posted by Wylie's Mom

Totally agree.

For me, there is a big difference btwn claw clipping, obedience training etc...vs being confined in a crate. The psychological effects of confinement in a small space is not an imagined thing...in both dogs and humans for that matter. Geesh, they use confinement in small spaces as a method of torture...pretty sure they don't use claw clipping etc for that.

I stand firm by my opinion that confinement to a crate is not for all dogs. I've learned this from experience, not from pulling an idea from thin air.

And like I said, for those dogs who love their crates - wonderful! Keep at it!

Really Ann pulling an idea from thin air? I did not ever say ALL dogs like to be crated. I stand by my belief that all dogs should at least be trained to accept crates to your best effort to do so. Maybe it won't be do able for a very few dogs. But it is a very valuable call it *skill*. For all the many reasons stated here above.

Ann you work in a shelter are all dogs left loose out to run around or are they kenneled for their own protection?

I don't believe kennels should be used to *imprison* dogs, ever. But that they are a valuable tool to be used judiciously. I have been very thankfull that I have trained my dogs to crates - for many many times, with surgeries and or injuries my dogs for their health and well being needed to be crated. They were used to their crates and did not think this was some sort of punishment-and it helped with their healing.

I also have been thankfull after being in a car accident with all my dogs in their crates that they were kept safe from major injury.

But this is way beyond the point of the original posters question. About whinning n barking. I hope he has found the few posts that offered concrete advice to his question.

[Wylie's Mom]

Originally Posted by gemy

Really Ann pulling an idea from thin air? I did not ever say ALL dogs like to be crated. I stand by my belief that all dogs should at least be trained to accept crates to your best effort to do so. Maybe it won't be do able for a very few dogs. But it is a very valuable call it *skill*. For all the many reasons stated here above.

Ann you work in a shelter are all dogs left loose out to run around or are they kenneled for their own protection?

I don't believe kennels should be used to *imprison* dogs, ever. But that they are a valuable tool to be used judiciously. I have been very thankfull that I have trained my dogs to crates - for many many times, with surgeries and or injuries my dogs for their health and well being needed to be crated. They were used to their crates and did not think this was some sort of punishment-and it helped with their healing.

I also have been thankfull after being in a car accident with all my dogs in their crates that they were kept safe from major injury.

But this is way beyond the point of the original posters question. About whinning n barking. I hope he has found the few posts that offered concrete advice to his question.

I honestly cannot figure out why this is hitting such a nerve with you / why you're taking this so very personally...?

I feel like replying to your purposely exaggerated comment about shelter dogs is only going to further inflame you, but I'll go ahead and reply since you put it out there.

Our shelter dogs are NOT crated - not even close. They have large kennels where they have an inside area AND an outside area. They can walk around, jump, sit, stand up on hinds, go inside, outside, lay down, play, eat, drink. Humans can go inside the kennel and stand up, sit with them, lay down, do training...whatever.

There is a HUGE difference btwn a kennel and tight confined spaces like a crate. I don't even really understand why you're trying to compare the two as being comparable to each other. They're not the same thing, not at all. That said, we do have shelter dogs who can't even tolerate our large kennels, they just cannot psychologically handle it...and for those dogs we find an alternative like fostering.

To sum up what I've said many times now: some dogs can tolerate crates, some cannot. In my book, it's not ethical to force an animal into tight confinement if they cannot handle it. That's really it.

[ladyjane]

Originally Posted by Wylie's Mom

I honestly cannot figure out why this is hitting such a nerve with you / why you're taking this so very personally...?

I feel like replying to your purposely exaggerated comment about shelter dogs is only going to further inflame you, but I'll go ahead and reply since you put it out there.

Our shelter dogs are NOT crated - not even close. They have large kennels where they have an inside area AND an outside area. They can walk around, jump, sit, stand up on hinds, go inside, outside, lay down, play, eat, drink. Humans can go inside the kennel and stand up, sit with them, lay down, do training...whatever.

There is a HUGE difference btwn a kennel and tight confined spaces like a crate. I don't even really understand why you're trying to compare the two as being comparable to each other. They're not the same thing, not at all. That said, we do have shelter dogs who can't even tolerate our large kennels, they just cannot psychologically handle it...and for those dogs we find an alternative like fostering.

To sum up what I've said many times now: some dogs can tolerate crates, some cannot. In my book, it's not ethical to force an animal into tight confinement if they cannot handle it. That's really it.

Again, as I said in a previous post, one must look at dogs as individuals. That is why there are dog trainers and dog behaviorist. The latter looks at what is behind the actions....something that is so important when you are dealing with issues. Dog trainers tend to be more rigid. Nothing wrong with that but it won't help in the case of a pup like the OP has. Not all puppies whine and cry when left alone. You have to find what works for each one and sometimes it is rehoming.

[gemy]

Originally Posted by Wylie's Mom

I honestly cannot figure out why this is hitting such a nerve with you / why you're taking this so very personally...?

I feel like replying to your purposely exaggerated comment about shelter dogs is only going to further inflame you, but I'll go ahead and reply since you put it out there.

Our shelter dogs are NOT crated - not even close. They have large kennels where they have an inside area AND an outside area. They can walk around, jump, sit, stand up on hinds, go inside, outside, lay down, play, eat, drink. Humans can go inside the kennel and stand up, sit with them, lay down, do training...whatever.

There is a HUGE difference btwn a kennel and tight confined spaces like a crate. I don't even really understand why you're trying to compare the two as being comparable to each other. They're not the same thing, not at all. That said, we do have shelter dogs who can't even tolerate our large kennels, they just cannot psychologically handle it...and for those dogs we find an alternative like fostering.

To sum up what I've said many times now: some dogs can tolerate crates, some cannot. In my book, it's not ethical to force an animal into tight confinement if they cannot handle it. That's really it.

Would it surprise you to hear that I agree - if a dog as I said earlier despite your best efforts to train to a crate or a kennel truly can not handle then fine -another solution is to be found.

And I kind of used kennel/crate as similar terms - sloppy of me I guess. But if a dog whines for a few days being kenneled or crated for a couple of minutes - then what give up?

And yes obviously I am not letting go - because I think many folks think kenneling or crating is down right wrong and cruel. And that is the furthest thing from the truth for many dogs - again there are a few dogs that are not able for what ever the reason may be to come to accept their kennels or crates. I believe that the safety factor of having a dog trained to a crate is so very important that it is worth the effort to try to train a dog to a crate. In the same way that important basic obedience commands can help to save your dogs life! You say it is not the same thing - well I think it is.

Anyhow Ann thanks for replying you did not inflame me in anyway.

[gemy]

Originally Posted by ladyjane

Again, as I said in a previous post, one must look at dogs as individuals. That is why there are dog trainers and dog behaviorist. The latter looks at what is behind the actions....something that is so important when you are dealing with issues. Dog trainers tend to be more rigid. Nothing wrong with that but it won't help in the case of a pup like the OP has. Not all puppies whine and cry when left alone. You have to find what works for each one and sometimes it is rehoming.

Yes Linda sometimes re homing. But not before the OP has done all they can with this dog. Which is why I recommended a dog behaviourist. They asked for advice to help to see if there was something they could do with whinning and barking. Not an unusual request here. He mentioned at times he kenneled the dog and that he wants to be able to go RVing. Not an unreasonable statement. He was disappointed in his dog response to Rving. Maybe he did too much too soon. So counsel to back it up - to de sensitize this dog to separation.

I am a dog trainer (of my own dogs) and my trainer is always adapting training to the dog team. We have done together so many different things in response to my dog*s actions and responses. And while I tend to agree with your generalization not all dog trainers are the same. Some actually are flexible and creative with training.

[ladyjane]

Originally Posted by gemy

Yes Linda sometimes re homing. But not before the OP has done all they can with this dog. Which is why I recommended a dog behaviourist. They asked for advice to help to see if there was something they could do with whinning and barking. Not an unusual request here. He mentioned at times he kenneled the dog and that he wants to be able to go RVing. Not an unreasonable statement. He was disappointed in his dog response to Rving. Maybe he did too much too soon. So counsel to back it up - to de sensitize this dog to separation.

I am a dog trainer (of my own dogs) and my trainer is always adapting training to the dog team. We have done together so many different things in response to my dog*s actions and responses. And while I tend to agree with your generalization not all dog trainers are the same. Some actually are flexible and creative with training.

I have not suggested rehoming here....I just said that, in the end, sometimes rehoming.

As for trainers and behaviorists, I was merely stating the general difference.

None of this has anything to do with you or what you do with your pups. All of what I posted is what I believe to be true in terms of dealing with issues with pups and crating