From Dogs Naturally: Evidenced Based Medicine

[pstinard]

Originally Posted by pstinard

It's a head scratcher for sure. To me, research results *could* be considered intellectual property. Let me know if you can find other leads to follow, and I'll do the same.

A google search of "research results" and "intellectual property" came up with a lot of hits that might be useful. Evidently, in some contexts, research results ARE considered to be intellectual property:

https://www.google.com/search?q=%22r...utf-8&oe=utf-8

[pstinard]

Originally Posted by SirTeddykins

Yes! Like soap under the bed..lol

I <3 soap.

I actually have restless leg syndrome, and I'm taking one of those Parkinson's drugs. It works, and I don't have hallucinations, but I might try out the soap as well. Any particular type of soap? And is it under the bed, or under the pillow? Knowing Bella, she might get into it if it's under the bed...

[pstinard]

Originally Posted by Wylie's Mom

I can definitely understand why this member asked me to post this article, rather than post it herself - and I totally respect and support her decision. I would do the same for any member - on any side of things too. If someone wanted to post an anti-natural-medicine article but didn't want to be the "OP" of it - I'd post it for them in a heartbeat.

I personally have seen people disparaged here for what they've posted, and I've definitely seen sources ridiculed, and people ridiculed to a certain extent too - and that's just super unfortunate and unacceptable. Not ONE of us should stand by and ever, ever accept that kind of targeting or those kinds of comments, seriously.

At the end of the day, if we're posting and we're feeling this desire to ridicule something or denigrate something - we truly should *not* be posting until we resolve those feelings and can post without those factors present.

"I disagree and here's why" is far, far different than "what you've posted is ridiculous!" or "what you've posted is utter nonsense!" (yes, both of which have actually been said here!).

Be respectful, be decent, be supportive of the person whether or not you support the information or what they post or their opinion.

This has turned into a FANTASTIC discussion on medicine and alternatives to traditional medicine that work, but the reasons why haven't been worked out yet. Thanks for posting the original article. Although I thought the article was baiting traditional medicine, I'm glad I took the bait . AND, I think we've been able to have a civil debate without any personal attacks.

[SirTeddykins]

Originally Posted by pstinard

I actually have restless leg syndrome, and I'm taking one of those Parkinson's drugs. It works, and I don't have hallucinations, but I might try out the soap as well. Any particular type of soap? And is it under the bed, or under the pillow? Knowing Bella, she might get into it if it's under the bed...

Yes, well as you know, side effects do not occur in everyone so I'm happy to hear you have only good experiences with your medicine.


AND, people swear by IVORY soap under the MATTRESS. I'm not sure why the particular brand but when I conducted polysomnography on patients with RLS, IVORY soap was the best soap for increased brain activity in the areas associated with euphoria/love i.e. the dorsolateral middle frontal gyrus and the anterior cingulate in addition to an increase in dopamine and oxytocin levels.


SO, how these are all interrelated is still under investigation and only the person and their bar of soap know for sure!

[Wylie's Mom]

Originally Posted by pstinard

This has turned into a FANTASTIC discussion on medicine and alternatives to traditional medicine that work, but the reasons why haven't been worked out yet. Thanks for posting the original article. Although I thought the article was baiting traditional medicine, I'm glad I took the bait . AND, I think we've been able to have a civil debate without any personal attacks.

Originally Posted by SirTeddykins

Yes, well as you know, side effects do not occur in everyone so I'm happy to hear you have only good experiences with your medicine.


AND, people swear by IVORY soap under the MATTRESS. I'm not sure why the particular brand but when I conducted polysomnography on patients with RLS, IVORY soap was the best soap for increased brain activity in the areas associated with euphoria/love i.e. the dorsolateral middle frontal gyrus and the anterior cingulate in addition to an increase in dopamine and oxytocin levels.


SO, how these are all interrelated is still under investigation and only the person and their bar of soap know for sure!

My Dad has RLS and I'm totally going to tell him about the soap! But what the heck, lol??!! Who knew??

[maxdog]

I think I have had RLS all my life. Ever since I was a kid, when I get tired my legs just won't hold still. Toss, turn, roll, kick, bend - absolutely won't stop moving. I never even heard of RLS until 10 years ago and I was like - "Hey! That's me!" I'll try the soap and see if it helps.

[pstinard]

Originally Posted by maxdog

I think I have had RLS all my life. Ever since I was a kid, when I get tired my legs just won't hold still. Toss, turn, roll, kick, bend - absolutely won't stop moving. I never even heard of RLS until 10 years ago and I was like - "Hey! That's me!" I'll try the soap and see if it helps.

I've had it since I was a kid, too. I've read that keeping your feet cool at night helps, too, so I've also been sleeping with my feet out from under the blanket until the meds kick in, LOL! I'll also try the soap.

[Maximo]

Originally Posted by gemy

I think many do know about placebos - what is much more interesting to me - is where is the research on the placebo effect? Many %'s have been quoted on various studies - anywhere from 5 to15% or more. If folks believe that this drug (which they are not getting will cure them or help them) and they are helped or cured - Wow! why not try to find out how that happened.


Is it possible we humans have the innate ability to cure ourselves of what ails us? If so - that would be the most incredible advance in knowledge so far.


Sounds like Sci Fi right? Well so was walking on the moon - which was written about by SciFi writers 40yrs or so before it actually happened.

The brain definitely has great capabilities and impact on our health. That is why some people can walk over burning coal, or hold their finger in a flame without being injured. The converse of that would be people who are hypnotized to believe that a pencil eraser is a hot poker and their skin actually burns when touched with the harmless eraser.

It would be wonderful to unlock the mysteries of the brain to be able to exercise these powers more. We all probably use a lot of it already without knowing.

There was a news article posted here on YT last year about placebos being given -- not as a part of a study, but in general. There was debate about the ethics and personal feelings. I would probably be annoyed if I discovered that I was being tricked with a placebo, but I also know of cases where placebos are all that are needed.

[Maximo]

Originally Posted by pstinard

I actually have restless leg syndrome, and I'm taking one of those Parkinson's drugs. It works, and I don't have hallucinations, but I might try out the soap as well. Any particular type of soap? And is it under the bed, or under the pillow? Knowing Bella, she might get into it if it's under the bed...

My uncle mentioned he was going to try the soap. I'm having dad email him to ask how it went. Sounds too funny to me!

Do you sit in bed reading/watching TV or whatever before going to sleep? I have been doing that recently for the first time in my life (to appease the doggies) and it annoys my legs so much. I am going back to regular chair sitting.

[pstinard]

Originally Posted by Maximo

My uncle mentioned he was going to try the soap. I'm having dad email him to ask how it went. Sounds too funny to me!

Do you sit in bed reading/watching TV or whatever before going to sleep? I have been doing that recently for the first time in my life (to appease the doggies) and it annoys my legs so much. I am going back to regular chair sitting.

I fall asleep with the TV on low volume, but I'm lying down under the blankets at that time. Bella is in a crate on the night stand, so she can watch me as I fall asleep and wake me if she needs to potty in the night.

[ladyjane]

Originally Posted by pstinard

This has turned into a FANTASTIC discussion on medicine and alternatives to traditional medicine that work, but the reasons why haven't been worked out yet. Thanks for posting the original article. Although I thought the article was baiting traditional medicine, I'm glad I took the bait . AND, I think we've been able to have a civil debate without any personal attacks.

Yes, but my concern here is that the person who didn't want their name attached to this, would not find this a good discussion at all and would be complaining behind the scenes about being attacked. I could be dead wrong, but I don't think so. I don't believe the person posted it to get the opinion from the other side....again, could be wrong. I think the person posted / asked Ann to post because they totally believe the article to be 100% accurate. Whether the person gains any insight into this is not really a concern I guess....I just hope that maybe since her name is not attached to it, she can see that people do have opposing opinions and Ann is not feeling attacked for posting it. Probably a poor analogy because they asked Ann because she is a mod and not a person who "could" be attacked. Oh heck...wonder if this makes any sense. LOL

I do think that sometimes people are a bit out of line in things they say, and even I have been guilty but just a little reminder is usually all a person needs to get back to being a bit less personal about things. I also think that there is an undercurrent of people trying to make it look like there is a large conspiracy to attack people. I saw it alleged the other day....calling a thread a slug fest that simply was not that at all. Maybe some things could be read as a bit testy, but a slug fest? Nah.... So does that mean that that person is perhaps doing their slug fest quietly? I have to say that I have often wondered that. Just as some point fingers at one "group" (let me say here that there IS a group of people on this forum whom I relate to for their views, but that does not mean we have a gang), I see the same people who complain coming along together as well. I know this is often the "way" of the internet and I guess no solution is going to be perfect. Just speaking my mind about something that I find highly insulting and annoying.

[gemy]

First I concur with Phil - that this has been an informative thread - even if it has wandered a bit off topic - and to my mind interestingly so - sic the placebo effect.


We have individually given our critiques of that article - without attacking anyones opinion or stance.

[dottiesyrky]

Just for the record, I did not ask Ann to post that for ME! This is certainly not my stealth link. Please accept this statement as just that.

[ladyjane]

Originally Posted by gemy

First I concur with Phil - that this has been an informative thread - even if it has wandered a bit off topic - and to my mind interestingly so - sic the placebo effect.


We have individually given our critiques of that article - without attacking anyones opinion or stance.

Indeed. I have found the thread very interesting. Phil's first post/response was so full of information and it led to lots of good stuff.

My hope is that the person who asked her to post it has seen that no one really means ill will. Maybe without having her name attached it will be easier to read the critiques of the article without feeling it is personal.

[pstinard]

Originally Posted by ladyjane

Indeed. I have found the thread very interesting. Phil's first post/response was so full of information and it led to lots of good stuff.

My hope is that the person who asked her to post it has seen that no one really means ill will. Maybe without having her name attached it will be easier to read the critiques of the article without feeling it is personal.

When I posted my first response, I thought for sure I was going to be put on a spit and roasted over the open flames. I'm pleasantly surprised how this all turned out .

I don't think we should try to guess or speculate on who wanted the article posted, not even in private or to ourselves--it's not fair to anyone. I just hope that this thread helps set a new tone and proves to people who are afraid to post that it IS okay to post. We don't bite--it's just our dogs who do, and most of them just give playful nibbles .