Must Read! Principles of Dog Nutrition!

[ladyjane]

Originally Posted by Nancy1999

No, she says carbs should be first three not first. Regarding protein she says, it should be 18-25 percent, but those are MINIMUMS.

Yes, I know what she said.

[ladyjane]

Originally Posted by Yorkiemom1

YOU may not have said any of the things I have bolded above, but there are posters that absolutely have said this! There are posters that have said by-products ARE bad..."nasty, nasty by-products that contain saw dust, hair, nails, teeth, hide, etc...." all of which are actually NOT allowed in by- products!

I have very informative articles from the FDA, University Of Ohio Vet School, and several other INDEPENDENT sources that have no financial agenda to promote one food over another...in fact, foods are not given, just how to interpret labels, and clarification of terms such as fillers and by-products, etc....along with what is required by law, etc....these are sources, in addition to vet nutritionists, that should be considered in decisions people make when it comes to food choices.....people must understand terminology and exactly what they are reading, in order to make clear, informed choices. Do your own research people!!!

My father told me years ago there are things you just do not discuss in public....politics, religion, and how to raise kids. I think I can safely add choosing pet food to that discussion....all the above seem to bring out the passionate, determined, most often unswayable resolve in us.....and it is like banging your head on a brick wall....what others believe will not be changed, you will just end up with a bloody head and a huge headache!

LOL soooo true! One of my pups was ill recently and it had absolutely nothing to do with what he eats; but someone asked me what he was being fed. (this was on FB) I refused to answer that one and she asked why. I pretty much told her what you said in your last paragraph. Just not a topic to get too involved in unless you love arguments.

[Nancy1999]

Originally Posted by Yorkiemom1

YOU may not have said any of the things I have bolded above, but there are posters that absolutely have said this! There are posters that have said by-products ARE bad..."nasty, nasty by-products that contain saw dust, hair, nails, teeth, hide, etc...." all of which are actually NOT allowed in by- products!

I have very informative articles from the FDA, University Of Ohio Vet School, and several other INDEPENDENT sources that have no financial agenda to promote one food over another...in fact, foods are not given, just how to interpret labels, and clarification of terms such as fillers and by-products, etc....along with what is required by law, etc....these are sources, in addition to vet nutritionists, that should be considered in decisions people make when it comes to food choices.....people must understand terminology and exactly what they are reading, in order to make clear, informed choices. Do your own research people!!!

My father told me years ago there are things you just do not discuss in public....politics, religion, and how to raise kids. I think I can safely add choosing pet food to that discussion....all the above seem to bring out the passionate, determined, most often unswayable resolve in us.....and it is like banging your head on a brick wall....what others believe will not be changed, you will just end up with a bloody head and a huge headache!

I'm surprised I'm getting such a negative reaction, I think this article is very helpful and informative. You do understand that the food you are using would be considered a good food based on this article? Also, the food I was using Royal Canin 28 would also be considered to be a good food. However, once Royal Canin changed their formula for Yorkshire terriers, it no longer is considered a good choice, since one of it's recommendations is to look for a protein source as the first ingredient.

I agree that many of you have an unswayable resolve, and I'm really not trying to convince any of you, but some people are open to learning and may find this article helpful. Again, the field of nutrition isn't stagnant, we are learning new things all times and it take a while for the science to catch up and hypotheses becomes theories and theories become facts.

[Nancy1999]

Originally Posted by ladyjane

Yes, I know what she said.

Here's your quote, You say that there is a conflict because she says that carbs should go first, and I'm saying she does not say carbs should go first. Therefore there is no conflict. There is also no conflict when she discusses protein, since she's talking about a minimum.

Originally Posted by ladyjane

It does conflict. She says that carbs should be first in kibble and she explains why.
She also discusses the percentages of proteins.

[107barney]

Originally Posted by Nancy1999

Here's your quote, You say that there is a conflict because she says that carbs should go first, and I'm saying she does not say carbs should go first. Therefore there is no conflict. There is also no conflict when she discusses protein, since she's talking about a minimum.

She also points out that extra protein can be problematic in a dog with underlying kidney issues. Since 75% of kidney function is lost before it even shows up on bloodwork, I'm more comfortable with more moderate levels of protein.

[107barney]

Originally Posted by Nancy1999

I'm surprised I'm getting such a negative reaction, I think this article is very helpful and informative. You do understand that the food you are using would be considered a good food based on this article? Also, the food I was using Royal Canin 28 would also be considered to be a good food. However, once Royal Canin changed their formula for Yorkshire terriers, it no longer is considered a good choice, since one of it's recommendations is to look for a protein source as the first ingredient.

I agree that many of you have an unswayable resolve, and I'm really not trying to convince any of you, but some people are open to learning and may find this article helpful. Again, the field of nutrition isn't stagnant, we are learning new things all times and it take a while for the science to catch up and hypotheses becomes theories and theories become facts.

A clinical vet nutritionist is the best way for us to know this new info. I'm not comfortable with a relief veterinarian turned entrepreneur like the author of your article advising me about nutrition for my pets. I like experts, that's just me.

[Nancy1999]

Originally Posted by 107barney

She also points out that extra protein can be problematic in a dog with underlying kidney issues. Since 75% of kidney function is lost before it even shows up on bloodwork, I'm more comfortable with more moderate levels of protein.

Yes, if you dog has kidney issues.

[107barney]

Originally Posted by Nancy1999

Yes, if you dog has kidney issues.

Many are yet undetected.

[Nancy1999]

Originally Posted by 107barney

A clinical vet nutritionist is the best way for us to know this new info. I'm not comfortable with a relief veterinarian turned entrepreneur like the author of your article advising me about nutrition for my pets. I like experts, that's just me.

Yes, but it's so hard to find any articles written by them, your myths article is fine as far as it goes, but it doesn't go very far, it's overly symplfied, but that may be what some people need. According to it, as long as the food has the AFFCO approval, it's fine. I don't think that's all that helpful. She does say, ask your vet, well this guy's a vet and he's giving tips. Take them or leave them, as you wish.

[ladyjane]

Originally Posted by Nancy1999

Here's your quote, You say that there is a conflict because she says that carbs should go first, and I'm saying she does not say carbs should go first. Therefore there is no conflict. There is also no conflict when she discusses protein, since she's talking about a minimum.

Maybe I missed something. I thought you said something about Dr. R not being different. ?? I don't know...I would have to go back but don't have time now. All I was saying was that you commented that your article said meat should be first and asked how Dr R was different?? If I was right, then that what I was saying....carbs first and she explained why. And, yes, I saw that she said first three.

[ladyjane]

Originally Posted by Nancy1999

Yes, but it's so hard to find any articles written by them, your myths article is fine as far as it goes, but it doesn't go very far, it's overly symplfied, but that may be what some people need. According to it, as long as the food has the AFFCO approval, it's fine. I don't think that's all that helpful. She does say, ask your vet, well this guy's a vet and he's giving tips. Take them or leave them, as you wish.

I like simple. I am not into nutrition like you are and I dare say that most pet owners are more like me.

You really could email Dr. Remillard with questions. She is very good about responding. I am sure she would be happy to point you to articles you would enjoy reading.

[Nancy1999]

Originally Posted by ladyjane

Maybe I missed something. I thought you said something about Dr. R not being different. ?? I don't know...I would have to go back but don't have time now. All I was saying was that you commented that your article said meat should be first and asked how Dr R was different?? If I was right, then that what I was saying....carbs first and she explained why. And, yes, I saw that she said first three.

Again, she doesn't say carbs should be first, she believes they should be somewhere in the top three, so there is no conflict.

[107barney]

Originally Posted by Nancy1999

Yes, but it's so hard to find any articles written by them, your myths article is fine as far as it goes, but it doesn't go very far, it's overly symplfied, but that may be what some people need. According to it, as long as the food has the AFFCO approval, it's fine. I don't think that's all that helpful. She does say, ask your vet, well this guy's a vet and he's giving tips. Take them or leave them, as you wish.

Yes, it was simple. It was a simple overview that the average person could use as a starting point. Here's another simple article for a very basic read by Tuft's Nutritionist Dr. Freeman, also a PhD and DVM, veterinary nutritionist.
http://www.cliniciansbrief.com/sites...%20Busters.pdf

[ladyjane]

Originally Posted by Nancy1999

I do believe Dr. Remillard article may be helpful for some, I don't see how her article conflicts with this one though. He doesn't say "corn is bad." He believes meat should be first. If you know of any studies that speak of the optimum level or protein for dogs, I would love to read them, but our knowledge of nutrition is evolving and there is a lot of evidence to suggest dogs do well on 30 or more percent protein compared to the 24% found in many dog foods. I'm not sure how Dr. Remillards article helps anyone pick a good dog food, basically she's saying that any dog food that has AFFCO's statement of feeding tests and says it's “complete and balanced nutrition” is a good choice. I think this is a starting place, not an ending place.

I'm kind of confused why you are saying, If people choose to follow opinion rather than the reality of science based, evidenced based clinical trials/outcomes, that is their decision and best of luck with that...." what makes you say this? What in the article makes you think this?

Nancy, ALL I was doing was responding to the highlighted part above. I cannot for some reason leave out the corn remark; but what I was commenting on was how they were different. He says meat first and she says carbs first three. That was what I meant by conflicting.

[Nancy1999]

Originally Posted by ladyjane

Nancy, ALL I was doing was responding to the highlighted part above. I cannot for some reason leave out the corn remark; but what I was commenting on was how they were different. He says meat first and she says carbs first three. That was what I meant by conflicting.

I believe that she is saying that carbs should in the top three, not the first three ingredients, if that's the case, she wouldn't approve of any of Royal Canin foods.