Must Read! Principles of Dog Nutrition!

[Yorkiemom1]

Originally Posted by Nancy1999

I'm surprised I'm getting such a negative reaction, I think this article is very helpful and informative. You do understand that the food you are using would be considered a good food based on this article? Also, the food I was using Royal Canin 28 would also be considered to be a good food. However, once Royal Canin changed their formula for Yorkshire terriers, it no longer is considered a good choice, since one of it's recommendations is to look for a protein source as the first ingredient.

I agree that many of you have an unswayable resolve, and I'm really not trying to convince any of you, but some people are open to learning and may find this article helpful. Again, the field of nutrition isn't stagnant, we are learning new things all times and it take a while for the science to catch up and hypotheses becomes theories and theories become facts.

I completely understand RC is an excellent food choice, and continues to be an excellent choice for me and my dogs. It works for my dogs, they love it, no adverse reactions, and I highly approve of the formulas, the way the formulas are researched, determined, and achieved. I could care less who no longer considers RC a quality food..... I tend to go with the highly educated and qualified professionals that have worked as a team and developed this dog food since 1968 (? 1965), evolving the formulas as deemed necessary. I do not take their word for it that the food meets high quality standards in pet nutrition....I have seen it in my dogs for over 40 years. I will continue to recommend it to whom ever will listen....those that care to go a different route, enjoy your adventure! Your outcomes have no effect on me or my dogs!

This argument can just continue on and on, in a loop, ad nauseum. A comment was made a few posts back, that really smacked me right between the eyes!....something about "baiting lions".....I have always been "a lion" when defending an idea or a cause or fighting for a principle, and I even had a manager at work tell me I let "co-workers bait me into fighting their battles for THEIR benefit, leaving me twisting in the wind, all alone.....". I am aware I can beat a principle to death. With that knowledge about my character, this "lion" wont be baited to continue this endless argument.....I leave the last word on this subject, to whoever feels the desire to continue to stomp it to death.

[Wylie's Mom]

Originally Posted by Nancy1999

I believe that she is saying that carbs should in the top three, not the first three ingredients, if that's the case, she wouldn't approve of any of Royal Canin foods.

Not to split hairs, but then you have to also check the ingreds for carb / corn splitting too....to see if they're trying to mask/hide how much corn / carb or other is in there. It gets complicated.

[Wylie's Mom]

Originally Posted by Yorkiemom1

I completely understand RC is an excellent food choice, and continues to be an excellent choice for me and my dogs. It works for my dogs, they love it, no adverse reactions, and I highly approve of the formulas, the way the formulas are researched, determined, and achieved. I could care less who no longer considers RC a quality food..... I tend to go with the highly educated and qualified professionals that have worked as a team and developed this dog food since 1968 (? 1965), evolving the formulas as deemed necessary. I do not take their word for it that the food meets high quality standards in pet nutrition....I have seen it in my dogs for over 40 years. I will continue to recommend it to whom ever will listen....those that care to go a different route, enjoy your adventure! Your outcomes have no effect on me or my dogs!

This argument can just continue on and on, in a loop, ad nauseum. A comment was made a few posts back, that really smacked me right between the eyes!....something about "baiting lions".....I have always been "a lion" when defending an idea or a cause or fighting for a principle, and I even had a manager at work tell me I let "co-workers bait me into fighting their battles for THEIR benefit, leaving me twisting in the wind, all alone.....". I am aware I can beat a principle to death. With that knowledge about my character, this "lion" wont be baited to continue this endless argument.....I leave the last word on this subject, to whoever feels the desire to continue to stomp it to death.

I don't think it has to be framed to be about "stomping it to death" -- why can't it just be a convo / discussion, as intended?

[gemy]

I truly detest these kibble threads. But I can't resist in this instance posting.


Dr Dunn and Dr R do not in their articles link research to support their recommendations and or opinions. Viscerally I have a problem with the term of by products or fillers - not something I would feed my human family not to mention my dogs.


I believe that natural sources of protein and carbs etc are best fed to folks and to dogs. Use a vet nutrionist to develop a home cooked or raw diet. Use regular vet check ups and blood work to help ascertain if this food is working for your dog. Use your own observation skills - shiney coat, clear eyes, healthy weight - healthy stools to see if that kibble if you feed kibble or you feed raw or home cooked is right for your dog.

[pstinard]

Originally Posted by gemy

I truly detest these kibble threads. But I can't resist in this instance posting.


Dr Dunn and Dr R do not in their articles link research to support their recommendations and or opinions. Viscerally I have a problem with the term of by products or fillers - not something I would feed my human family not to mention my dogs.


I believe that natural sources of protein and carbs etc are best fed to folks and to dogs. Use a vet nutrionist to develop a home cooked or raw diet. Use regular vet check ups and blood work to help ascertain if this food is working for your dog. Use your own observation skills - shiney coat, clear eyes, healthy weight - healthy stools to see if that kibble if you feed kibble or you feed raw or home cooked is right for your dog.

Dr. Remillard links to articles supporting her research in her articles that are published in refereed journals (and therefore behind paywalls). Unfortunately, almost no one links to research articles when the articles are on mainstream websites that are not behind paywalls . It can be frustrating if you don't work for an institution that has a subscription to the journals. I can provide you refereed articles if you need them--just PM me the link to the article.

Many thumbs up to the bolded part in your last paragraph.

[Verbena]

Originally Posted by gemy

I truly detest these kibble threads. But I can't resist in this instance posting.


Dr Dunn and Dr R do not in their articles link research to support their recommendations and or opinions. Viscerally I have a problem with the term of by products or fillers - not something I would feed my human family not to mention my dogs.


I believe that natural sources of protein and carbs etc are best fed to folks and to dogs. Use a vet nutrionist to develop a home cooked or raw diet. Use regular vet check ups and blood work to help ascertain if this food is working for your dog. Use your own observation skills - shiney coat, clear eyes, healthy weight - healthy stools to see if that kibble if you feed kibble or you feed raw or home cooked is right for your dog.

You are right. . . What works for your pup. . .

It is funny how things change. . . (Dating myself) remember when Imas used be be the better quality food. . Now it is on the market shelf next to Friskies.

I have gone through the gamit of better dog foods. . . I think if they put it out we tried it. Some i went to a far place just to get. . . Canine Caviar, just to have him turn his nose up at it. So glad for company guarantees lol . . You all know what I went through.

We found Freeze dried foods work for Galen. . He is happy, healthly and greets us at breakfast WANTING it eat ! And licks the bowl clean. . That is a big thing.

I am happy . .my vet is happy . . And best of all Galen is happy !

[patchesmom10]

Teri

I my story is same as yours I went to vet got recipes and lots of info I am home cooking for Mac and he loves it wish you could see him he really wants to eat (it's a joy to see) and I agree every pup is different whatever works keep doing it.

[Verbena]

Originally Posted by patchesmom10

Teri

I my story is same as yours I went to vet got recipes and lots of info I am home cooking for Mac and he loves it wish you could see him he really wants to eat (it's a joy to see) and I agree every pup is different whatever works keep doing it.

I am glad you found something that works. . . It can be very frustrating and worrisome. These guys can not miss a meal

[patchesmom10]

Thanks it can be very frustrating and you are so right they cannot miss a meal Mac breaks the scales at 4.5 lbs

[Nancy1999]

Originally Posted by gemy

I truly detest these kibble threads. But I can't resist in this instance posting.


Dr Dunn and Dr R do not in their articles link research to support their recommendations and or opinions. Viscerally I have a problem with the term of by products or fillers - not something I would feed my human family not to mention my dogs.


I believe that natural sources of protein and carbs etc are best fed to folks and to dogs. Use a vet nutrionist to develop a home cooked or raw diet. Use regular vet check ups and blood work to help ascertain if this food is working for your dog. Use your own observation skills - shiney coat, clear eyes, healthy weight - healthy stools to see if that kibble if you feed kibble or you feed raw or home cooked is right for your dog.

I actually agree with you, kibble is more of a choice of convenience, but natural foods and biologically appropriate foods seem to me the best choice.

[Verbena]

Originally Posted by patchesmom10

Thanks it can be very frustrating and you are so right they cannot miss a meal Mac breaks the scales at 4.5 lbs

Galen is 3.5 lbs. . . He is the most finicky Biewer. My family thinks I am nuts. . Except for my mom. .she has been seen on her kitchen floor hand feeding Galen his food. . .LOL. . Little stinkers

[Wylie's Mom]

Originally Posted by Nancy1999

[/b]

I actually agree with you, kibble is more of a choice of convenience, but natural foods and biologically appropriate foods seem to me the best choice.

I feed pre-made raw, and I too see that as a food of "convenience" -- if I was the best Mom I could be, I'd really be making my own raw food...but I don't. Maybe someday though.

I think you mentioned that Deb now makes her own food w/ one of those awesome state-of-the-art grinders...wish she would post here more about it.

But yes, biologically appropriate foods are probably ideal for these kiddos.

[Nancy1999]

Originally Posted by Wylie's Mom

I feed pre-made raw, and I too see that as a food of "convenience" -- if I was the best Mom I could be, I'd really be making my own raw food...but I don't. Maybe someday though.

I think you mentioned that Deb now makes her own food w/ one of those awesome state-of-the-art grinders...wish she would post here more about it.

But yes, biologically appropriate foods are probably ideal for these kiddos.

Your dogs were actually the test subjects in my experiment, "Is premade raw safe?" The results found premade is not only safe, the subjects are thriving!

I miss Deb too, and would love to read about her experience with grinding her own raw.

[Wylie's Mom]

Originally Posted by Nancy1999

Yes, but it's so hard to find any articles written by them, your myths article is fine as far as it goes, but it doesn't go very far, it's overly symplfied, but that may be what some people need. According to it, as long as the food has the AFFCO approval, it's fine. I don't think that's all that helpful. She does say, ask your vet, well this guy's a vet and he's giving tips. Take them or leave them, as you wish.

I agree....I consider this author an excellent source, and definitely an expert. He is a DVM who clearly has a vast, researched, and educated interest in nutrition.

Here's some of his info, pretty impressive:

T J Dunn, DVM: About Veterinary Medical, Writing, Internet And Photography Experience

T. J. Dunn, DVM, Biographical Information

[Wylie's Mom]

Originally Posted by Nancy1999

Your dogs were actually the test subjects in my experiment, "Is premade raw safe?" The results found premade is not only safe, the subjects are thriving!

I miss Deb too, and would love to read about her experience with grinding her own raw.

I also miss her infamous one-liners . Especially in passionate threads like some of these food threads...she always lent a needed dose of levity .

Yup, my kiddos really do love the raw and do so well on it. Wylie is going to be 11 soon (omgoodness), but you'd think he was still about 4. I think they would've also thrived on kibble, canned, homecooked etc -- but I do love the raw.