Hi Mark,

Sorry for the delay in getting back to you. We had local K9 units in for a plant tour yesterday :)

Palatability in dogs is multfactorial. The primary areas dogs, specifically, judge palatability on is the smell, mouth feel and very low on the list, taste. Smell is an obvious first choice for dogs, because as we know with their MANY more olfactory cells than humans, they can smell you making a sandwich from miles away! Mouth feel is the perception of how the food feels in the mouth. This involves things like texture, shape, density, size etc. (Think of cereal. Some people like soggy cereal, such as myself, and some people prefer the texture of fresh, crisp cereal). Finally, because they have very few tastebuds (9000 in humans vs. 1700 in dogs), dogs tend to not rely highly on their sense of taste for a food.

For RC, palatability is an extremely important part. Why? No matter how nutritious a diet is, if the dog doesn't want to eat it, all that nutrition is useless because it won't be provided to the body. Same as making the healthiest baby food, if they baby doesn't want eat it, it won't benefit them. We try different ingredients and engineer the kibble in different ways and evaluate it with dogs and cats to see which they prefer. We also Nitrogen flush our bags. Nitrogen is a stable component in the air we breath, as appose to Oxygen which we need, but oxidizes nearly everything it meets (including fats in foods). We pump Nitrogen in, which reduces the level of Oxygen in the bag and helps to maintain the freshness and nutrition.

External factors also play a huge role in palatability.
-Age: As dogs get older, their sense of smell diminishes. Since smell is a palatability factor, if they can’t smell it, their less likely to want to eat it. Adding something “smelly” might help with this, for example adding a small amount of canned food to the dry. Warm food smells stronger than cold food, so that may have an effect as well.
-Dental Disease is very common in Yorkies, and has a double impact on palatability. 1) If they have bad breath, it could block the smell of the food 2) If there are abscesses, the pain may make them not want to eat, or only eat the minimum to get by.
-Nausea; if there’s anything making the little guy feel sick, it may not be that it’s unpalatable, but that he feels bad when he eats. If you haven’t had senior bloodwork done, it might be worthwhile, including a GI panel to be sure there’s nothing underlying.
-Food Freshness; if a food starts to go bad, a dog can sense it much faster than we can because of their enhanced sense of smell. Some key things to look at include buying smaller size format of the food (new bags should be fresher and if you are introducing a new bag more often, it might help with palatability), tightly sealing the food in a cool, dry place (the bag should be tightly sealed or ideally stored in an air tight container. A moist environment can favour mold growth, and a warm environment can encourage the food to go rancid faster), cleaning of bowls and storage bins (a thin layer of fat is distributed onto any surface kibble touches. If bowls aren't cleaned out regularly or bins not cleaned out between new food bags, the fat can start to go bad, reducing palatability but also in the case of food bins, potentially making the new food go bad faster)
-Individual Energy Requirements; keep in mind that the feeding recommendations on the bag are a starting point only, some dogs may need more or less than that, the variation could easily be 50% in either direction. Monitor his body weight and body condition score. If he’s maintaining his weight, it may simply be that he doesn’t need the full recommendation.

When it comes to feeding amounts, that can greatly vary based on the individual dog. The ranges provided on the feeding guidelines, are exactly what they are... guidelines. It's hard to determine your pet's exact needs without extensive measurements of body condition, energy expenditure, exercise level etc. The best you can do is start with an amount based on each formula's guidelines, then adjust over a few weeks based on the how your dog looks (body condition score) and how your dog feels. Some dogs may need the lowest end of the guideline (or below) some may need the highest end (or higher). My labradoodle, for example, will eat her entire meal on days we do a lot more activity with her. On days where she's more lazy, she eats less. She knows how much she needs and adjusts her intake herself (I must say this is RARE, because my Italian Greyhound would probably eat until he was huge!).

Ultimately it's fine tuning the amount of food you feed until you observe that it works the best for your specific dog.

Hope this helps!
Ashley :animal36

Hi YT Parents :aimeeyork,

I want to thank you for the opportunity to join this forum and answer your questions. I would like to extend my offer to continue helping you with your nutrition and formula questions, so feel free to reach out to us here: Contact Us | Royal Canin Canada (for our Canadian parents). We are always delighted to help you, so please don’t hesitate to contact us.

Wishing you and your YT’s all the best!
Ashley :animal36

Thank you Ashley for the opportunity you provided for a learning experience for those that were interested in participating.

Thanks for the pointers!
Does this mean you are departing from yorkietalk?

I certainly can not speak for her, but it appears she imagined her posts had become more of a distraction and an opportunity for those that do not like RC and have NO intention of feeding it (any more or ever), for whatever reason, to challenge the company rather than use her posts for what the intented purpose. She is a nutritionist and she was trying to answer questions about building blocks, how different protein sources worked together to achieve excellent results, how amino acids play a roll in nutrition, etc., etc.....and the post became clearly a challenge for her to explane RC sells and outsourcing and supplying....and then the ugly "conflict of interest" monster reared its ugly head. I imagine rather than waiting around to get publically kicked off the forum because she was "a conflict of interest" as a nutritionist, simply TRYING to answer nutrition questions, rather than jumping in, grabbing the bait, and trying to defend the company she works for, (which would have clearly been a conflict of interest) she decided her intent here was not being fully or correctly utilized. I can not say as I blame her......just chalk her up as another person this forum chased off. She did leave a link where RC experts can be contacted if anyone has any questions.

It is too bad if she left. One can always remember where the information is coming from, but also remember too, that the information is not necessary wrong. She claimed who she was and where she was from.


Now I like many, do like to home cook/fed raw, and I know what goes into my dogs food, and I do work with my vet and nutritionist over formulations.


I like Judy, look very closely at my dogs conditions, not only to make sure they are not getting skinny or obese, but their teeth, eyes, and coat quality. If home cooking was not doing it for them, I would change them over to a kibble.


But kibble and various brands once my Blackies reach around or about a year old, do NOT do good on kibble as their main diet. Razzle the Yorkie actually did well - how-ever when the other members of the pack are eating real meat, kibble was a nose turner upper! Can't blame him for that.


I now retire once again from the food threads, not being a nutritionist, I have very little to offer.


In closing I will comment that actually at one time (don't know now if this person is still here) we had a vet, and we still have a geneticist on board.
Who btw contributes a lot of interesting threads. The Color Dilution Thread was one such contribution by pstinard.

There are many independent sources where people can learn about nutrition, on the web, in bookstores, libraries, and in school. I don’t think it’s best for a person to learn about nutrition through a company because they are going to slant their answers to make their product look good. What a company can do, is tell us why they have changed their formula, and specific answers about their ingredients. When asked about why they are using chicken byproduct meal instead of chicken meal, their answer was “chicken meal was hard to get”, and I found this to be an unsatisfactory answer. More likely the answer was chicken meal is more expensive and we wanted to save money and use something cheaper. Notice Ashley never said chicken byproduct meal was just as good as chicken meal, she said chicken byproducts can cost more than chicken muscle meat. That’s not the same as saying chicken by-product meal cost more than chicken meal, but she was implying it, thus implying that it was just as good a protein. Independent sources says it’s not. She also said things like by-products are expensive because of the Asian market for chicken feet. This made me wonder where their chicken by products were coming from, and I’d prefer a company not buy their chicken meal or chicken by product meal from China. I listened carefully to the things Ashley said, and because I have studied nutrition I knew she was being misleading. I’ve recommend RC for years to people, the product use to be good, in my opinion, not the best, but good, but now it’s changed, they are using much poor products in their Yorkshire terrier formula than they use to. If the formula is no longer a premium type of dog food, I would want someone to tell me, so I told others, and this angers people, why? How am I hurting anyone? Your particular formula hasn’t changed, so you see no problem with it, and I’m telling you if it does change, you are over paying greatly. You can find brewers rice and chicken byproducts in much much cheaper food.

Lets look at the facts, The Mars company who owns Royal Canin spent almost 3 billion dollars in April on three new dog food companies, Iams, Eukanuba and Natura. I’m no businessman, but as a homemaker when I spent a large wad of cash on something, I have to cut back on other things, until cash flow stabilizes. I believe they are cutting back on quality of some of their best sellers so that they can pay off those 3 billion dollars. I think the Yorkshire Terrier Formula was one of the best sellers and they could change the ingredients and most pet owners wouldn’t have any idea. I cannot understand why any of you think it’s okay to make this type of change, and not put some type of notification on the bag. I also can't understand why you are mad at me for pointing out her inconsistencies and half truths.

Some people just wanted to read the definitions, the combinations, etc,.They really didnt want her to try to explane to people that were not really interested in feeding RC in the first place, try to justify where RC bought chicken feet. In YOUR opinion, you dont like RC because of the ingredients list organization,....perhaps there are those of us that depend and appreciate evidenced based outcomes....that means if the dog loves the product, eats the product, and THRIVES on the produce, and is HEALTHY on the product, why not just leave the post and let people that were interested in learning from HER, people that are using RC, people that like RC, and people seeing the excellent results as evidenced in their dogs that are eating RC, let them learn from her answers.

You have "studied nutrition",..... she is indeed a bonifide nutritionist, a real live educated, graduated, degreed and licensed nutritionist......now you may feel she was misleading, you may feel she was deceptive, but many people did not. You feel they are using much poorer products in their food and you will not see it any other way....it does not fit YOUR specifications for what defines a premium product, so stop feeding it, tell what you think in a post, and let it go. Skip her posts. Dont recommend RC any longer....but remember she was not here to sell her dog food!!!! She was here to answer questions about nutrition, not explane why RC is an excellent product that is scientifically formulated, evidenced based on clinical trials, including input from breeders all over the world that have used this product well in excess of 25 years. Those breeders may just know a little about the quality of the product. Ginning up arguments with her over the cost of chicken feet from Asia, price points for RC on chicken meal, chicken by products, chicken by products meal, vitamins, etc....In YOUR opinion, it is no longer "a premium quality" food....great....dont feed it to your dogs. The quality control/quality management of that company is second to none in the dog food business.....there are millions of us that DO consider it a quality food, a premium food because it WORKS...it is excellent for our dogs and it is proven to be excellent for our dogs. Why continually beat this woman over the head with your opinion. You stated your opinion, again and again and again, and challenged every answer she tried to give. She was NOT here to sell RC to people, she was just trying to answer nutriution questions. Continually, the posts were re-directed back to what people thought about RC....

There are people on here that wanted to just have questions answered about palatability, proteins, alternate protein sources, fillers and grains and how they work in our pets digestive tracts, amino acids, immune system builders, etc.....and she was badgered about Chinese chicken feet and RC did this, RC did that, RC is owned by Mars company, so any change HAD to be because the parent company really couldnt afford the quality product...it always went right back to RC.....she was not here to defend RC, she was not here to sell RC, she was not here to persuade people that were not interested in RC to become fans of RC........that truth was lost. Sad.

Awww, shucks! I'm speechless! :D I'm still here, although I'm not on Yorkietalk as much as I used to be. If I miss a genetics thread you want me to comment on, please PM me--otherwise I might miss it.

I'm glad that Ashley is/was here answering questions on nutrition. I found her style of explaining nutrition very helpful and accessible--much easier than trying to dig information out of a nutrition textbook. My take on the chicken meal vs. byproducts vs. real meat is that the choicer cuts of meat are too expensive and hard to come by, so they use less expensive ingredients that provide the same nutritional benefits. If my Bella were not healthy and content eating Blue Buffalo, I would definitely give Royal Canin a try. Bella ate Royal Canin when she was a puppy because the smaller kibble size was much easier for her to handle.

Ashley also said that RC's protein sources in North America are NOT sourced from China, but some of the vitamins are. So long as there is tight quality control on the vitamin lots from China, I don't have a problem with that either. Many vitamins that humans use also come from China...

Do you think all dog foods are equal? They all end up meeting the AFFCO nutrient requirements? There are several ways to select a good food and one is to look to the ingredient panel, and learn the differences between ingredients.

Here's one independent source. Here's her credentials:

Sabine Contreras.

At school in Germany she attended Biology and Chemistry classes for 8 and 6 consecutive years respectively and during her 2 1/2 year professional apprenticeship, nutrition/dietetics was part of the accompanying education, and the final written and oral exams by the state of Baden-Württemberg.
[q]
After completing coursework in Animal Nutrition, Care, Physiology, Diseases and Parasitology, Sabine earned her certification in Animal Care from the University of Guelph, Ontario, Canada [/q]

Her site helps the average person without training in nutrition learn how to pick out a good dog food, she doesn't do recommendations, she tell you about ingredients.

Look what she says about:



Brewers Rice

Also appears in ingredient lists as ground Brewers Rice.

AAFCO: The small milled fragments of rice kernels that have been separated from the larger kernels of milled rice.

A processed rice product that is missing many of the nutrients contained in whole ground rice and brown rice. Contrary to what many pet food companies want to make you believe, this is not a high quality ingredient, just much cheaper than whole grain rice.


Chicken Byproduct Meal

AAFCO: Consists of the dry, ground, rendered, clean parts of the carcass of slaughtered chicken, such as necks, feet, undeveloped eggs, and intestines -- exclusive of feathers except in such amounts as might occur unavoidably in good processing practices.

Chicken byproducts are much less expensive and less digestible than the chicken muscle meat. The ingredients of each batch can vary drastically in ingredients (heads, feet, bones etc.) as well as quality, thus the nutritional value is also not consistent. Don't forget that byproducts consist of any parts of the animal OTHER than meat. If there is any use for any part of the animal that brings more profit than selling it as "byproduct", rest assured it will appear in such a product rather than in the "byproduct" dumpster. Invalid Page ingredients


This page has so much good information on identifying a better product.
The Dog Food Project - Identifying better products

I'm not saying that you should never listen to the manufacturer, I'm saying that we should get independent information as well, to see if the manufacturer is telling you the full story.

Here's another great page on protein, and how at one time they thought too much protein was harmful, it wasn't the fact that they were using too much protein it was the fact that they were using poor quality protein. The Dog Food Project - Is too much protein harmful?

I feel like some of you think a dog food would be fine if we use saw dust dust , hair, and sugar and a handful of vitamins. It has all the essential elements protein, carbs and vitamins and minerals as well as fiber. Throwing in vitamins instead of using nutritious foods in the first place is not in the best long term interest of our dogs.


I urge any of you who really want to learn about nutrition, and how to select good a dog food, to visit her site, she not selling any dog food. The Dog Food Advisor can also give you useful information about the individual ingredients in your food. Dog Food Advisor

I swore off this thread, but MUST share this with you Nancy and anyone else who thinks the Dog Food Advisor is only in it for his love of animals..............

He may not be selling dog food, but he is making mad money off of folks..... here is a link to his "Editor's Choice" sales pitch:


Editor's Choice Dog Food Recommendations | Dog Food Advisor

I posted this some time ago and today I noted that he has changed it a bit, BUT it is STILL a sales thing. Now he makes you listen to his LONG story about his dog Penny and then his thoughts about ingredients.........THEN he hits you with his sales pitch for his exclusive list of foods....Editor's Choice. Love of our pups you say? I say love of the bottom line. Not impressed with him. at. all. He discloses that he makes money off of Editor's Choice...would love to hear that figure. LOL

I am laughing as I listen to this guy....he is giving me seconds right now to sign up for Editor's Choice.. LOL He used to have a timer on it.....I posted that all over and I guess someone called his attention to it because it is gone. It was a high pressure, get it now thing. Please.

Your comments about saw dust and vitamins are out of line in my opinion. You may think that you know it all and we are all stupid...that's all good. Think what you want. I also have my own thoughts, but I refrain because quite frankly what I have to say falls on deaf ears anyway. My pups are fine with what I feed them. I don't go with companies that meet AAFCO...I go with companies that spend money to do feeding trials. You feed what you want...and so do I. You and any other person I meet on the internet will not be advising me on dog food for my pups.

Please also be aware that many of The Dog Food Advisor's favored foods with great ingredients have ended up on recall lists. THAT is my point in all of this. Again, I say, looking at ingredients tells you nothing about quality control of a company. Not saying it one more time...it is exhausting.

Speaking of CVs of people who have websites on pet food, here is Dr. Remillard's....

www.petdiets.com This site has a nutrition library...with great information and also there is a link to ask questions of the nutritionist.

Her abbreviated CV:

REBECCA L. REMILLARD
Veterinary Nutritional Consultations, Inc
1002 Capps Farm Rd
Hollister, NC
27844
EDUCATION
POSTDOCTORAL FELLOW (Surgical Nutrition), 1991 - 1993, Johns Hopkins University, School of Medicine
DIPLOMATE of the AMERICAN COLLEGE of VETERINARY NUTRITION, September 1991, Board
certified in Comparative (Large and Small Animal).
 Nutrition Internship and Residency (3 yr combined) completed at Virginia-Maryland
Regional College of Veterinary Medicine. 1987 - 1990
DOCTORATE of VETERINARY MEDICINE, May 1987, Tufts University
DOCTORATE of PHILOSOPHY, Animal Science - Nutrition, May 1983, Colorado State University
MASTERS DEGREE of SCIENCE, Animal Science - Nutrition, August 1978, University of Maine
BACHELORS DEGREE of SCIENCE, Animal Science, May 1976, Purdue University
PROFESSIONAL EXPERIENCE
North Carolina College of Veterinary Medicine - Clinical Veterinarian 9/2011 to present
Nutrition Service Clinical instructor
MSPCA ANGELL ANIMAL MEDICAL CENTER, Boston, Mass:
Senior Staff Veterinarian - Clinical Nutritionist 1993 – 9/2011
 Meeting the dietary and nutritional needs of all hospitalized patients and outpatients with a wide
variety of medical conditions through clinic appointments and case consultation. Ave case load is
approximately 45,000 /yr with 60% canine, 35% feline and 5% avian and exotics.
 Mentored 20+ residents and 14 interns annually on nutritional support and dietary therapies.
 Developed and monitored a standardized feeding protocol for the 400 caged hospital
 Devised and monitored Equine feeding program for Nevins Farm Equine & Farm Center which
averaged ~25 horses on site.
DIDACTIC TEACHING EXPERIENCE
North Carolina School of Veterinary Medicine 2011-present
2nd, 3rd and 4th year students Veterinary Nutritional Health in a variety of teaching formats.
Tufts University School of Veterinary Medicine 1993 - 2011
2011 4th yr students; participate in Equine Medicine Rounds twice monthly in addition providing
Equine Clinical Nutrition lectures when requested.
1993 – 2002 1st yr students; directed a 15 hr Feeds, Petfoods and Feeding course, and 5 hrs of Vitamin
and Mineral Nutrition lectures in Physiological Biochemistry course.
1993-1996 3rd yr students; designed and directed a 12 hr Veterinary Clinical Nutrition course.
4th yr students; conducted 2 hrs of small and 2 hrs of large animal Clinical Nutrition Rounds monthly
plus 2 hrs of Clinical Nutrition lectures in Large Animal Medicine course2 | Page
Abbrev CV last updated: March 13, 2013
Virginia-Maryland Regional College of Veterinary Medicine 1987 - 1990
1st yr students; 15 hrs in Veterinary Clinical Nutrition, 9 hrs in Fundamentals of Nutrition, 1 hr in
Small Animal Husbandry and a 4 hr lab in Normal GI.
3rd yr students; 12 hrs of clinical case studies in Correlative Medicine course.
2nd yr veterinary technicians; 2 hr lecture in Nutrition course.
Colorado State University 1979 - 1983
Teaching assistant responsible for 4 hrs of lecture, grading homework/examinations and conducting,
help sessions in Feeds and Feeding, Principles of Animal Nutrition, Animal Metabolism and Beef
Cattle Production undergraduate courses.
University of Maine 1976-1978
Teaching assistant responsible for 2 hrs of lecture, grading homework/examinations and conducting
help sessions in Animal Nutrition and Poultry Production in third and fourth year undergraduate
courses. Course director for a 30 hr second year course in Animal Breeding and Genetics.
PROFESSIONAL MEMBERSHIPS and COMMITTEE WORK
• American College of Veterinary Nutrition 1991-present
• American Academy of Veterinary Nutrition 1988 - present
• American Veterinary Medical Association 1986 - present
• National Academy of Science 2003-2004
• FDA AAFCO Sub Committee on Canine and Feline Nutrient Profiles 2007 - present
PUBLICATIONS
Since 2005:
1. Parr JM, Remillard RL. ELISA testing of Soy, Pork and Beef Antigens in Common Confounders of Dietary
Elimination Trials. Submitted to JAAHA
2. Willis-Mahn, C, Raditic DM, Remillard, RL et al. ELISA testing for Soy Antigens in Dry Dog Foods used
in Dietary Elimination Trials. Submitted to JAAHA
3. Raditic, DS, Remillard, RL, Tater KC. ELISA Testing for Common Food Antigens in Four Dry Dog Foods
Used in Dietary Elimination Trials. J An Phys An Nutrition 2011 Feb;95(1):90-7.
4. Hand MS, Thatcher CD, Remillard RL, Roudebush P, Novotny, B. (eds) Small Animal Clinical Nutrition
V. 5th ed. Topeka KS: Mark Morris Institute, 2010.
5. Remillard RL. Homemade diets: attributes, pitfalls and a call for action. Topics in Companion Animal
Medicine. Topics in Companion Animal Medicine. 2008; vol 23 (3) 137-142.
6. Remillard RL. Clinicians Insert to MTP Inhibition papers. Journal of Veterinary Pharmacology and
Therapeutics. June 2007.
7. Dietary Management of Obesity in Dogs. A Purina Sponsored roundtable discussion May 2007.
Compendium on Continuing Ed for the Practicing Veterinarian 2007.
8. Remillard, RL. Parenteral Nutrition Support in Rabbits and Ferrets. J Exotic Pet Med 2006;15(4): 248-254.
9. Saker, KE, Remillard RL. Performance of a Canine Weight Loss Program in Clinical Practice. Veterinary
Therapeutic 2005; 6 (4):291-302.
10. Remillard RL, Saker, KE. Nutritional Management of Hepatic Disease. Ettinger S and Feldman E, eds. In:
Textbook of Veterinary Internal Medicine. 6th ed. Philadelphia: WB Saunders, 2005;574-577.

First of all, I’m not the one who thinks I know everything and you all are stupid, I think this type of remark is below the belt. I’m trying to get people to do independent research; I was hesitant to link “The Dog Food Advisor”, because many of you feel that since he’s a dentist, he’s not able to comment on nutrition. I use to think the site wasn’t very good, even the ingredient lists weren’t accurate, but I’ve changed my mind a long time ago way before RC changed it's ingredients, it didn't matter to me RC wasn't a 5 star food, it was considered a good food, and that's was good enough. I do think he’s doing a better job keeping the ingredient list accurate, and he gives the pros and cons to certain ingredients, not just one side, for example, the beet pulp debate. I know you hate the site, you’re an avid Hill’s fan and Hills diets are low rated so you are going to think this guy is an idiot. I wonder if he rated Hills foods as five stars you’d feel the same way? Anyway, I think he has good information to share, and there is even a page that explains the limitations of his site and the problem with all dog food review sites. If nothing else, everyone should read that page. The Problem with Dog Food Reviews. You can get a lot of information from his site, without purchasing anything. My point is to do some research before you automatically believe everything a dog food company says about the food.

:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:

Thank you for this post....I will be putting this in my "Nutrition Folder"....looks like this lady may know "just a little" about nutrition....a "real live, educated, graduated, degreed, and licensed nutritionist!"

Quoting from Linda's post, and I am in total agreement with....I would hope these thoughts come to everyones mind when you look for food to feed your pets...I have not ever come on this forum and denigrated ANY brand of dogfood or choice of feeding....to each his own. But I really have just a couple of points to make/agree with about "recommendation by experts".

"Please also be aware that many of The Dog Food Advisor's favored foods with great ingredients have ended up on recall lists. I don't go with companies that meet AAFCO...I go with companies that spend money to do feeding trials." While points were made by Linda, I am in total agreement.

To me, especially that last sentence, is what governs any decision I make with feeding my dogs. All these "professionals" can blow all the hot air they want...show me the results of your extensive feeding trials on the pets that have been fed your "great" product. I do not even look at what the Dog Food Advisor recommends...when several of his recommendations were recalled, that was all I needed. I want quality control/quality management because THAT is where "recalls" are caught before the food ever hits the shelves. THAT is important to me. You do NOT get that by reading an ingredients list!
RC is and has long been the global benchmark for feeding trials,/ vets,/ scientific /nutritionist research, quality control/quality management for pet foods. Good enough for me!

Of course, for anyone that is really concerned with "conflict of interest" issues, "the Dog Food Advisor" clearly has that monkey on his back....."THEN he hits you with his sales pitch for his exclusive list of foods....Editor's Choice." (Ladyjane quote)

I know what I have put my trust and faith in for my dogs....from vet care to food I feed. My faith and trust is not based on hearsay and internet browsing....it is based on evidence of excellent results from the products/vet I use. I did not establish/build my breeding program or the care of my dogs unless I have actually seen the benefits. RC works very well for me and my dogs, from conception to grave, and has for many years. THAT is all that concerns me, and when that starts to fall apart, then I will make necessary changes. I sound like a broken record with this, I have said all I can say that express my feelings and beliefs in how I feed my dogs. I do not feel the need to defend my choice. I do not feel the need to convince anyone to buy RC. I would hope that people that are feeding it, do not feel they have made the wrong choice or that they are "neglecting" or "abusing" their babies....if your dogs love it, they eat it, they thrive on it, and they do not have any untoward reactions from it, you are doing fine, and your dogs are too.

I do think that is what you think, Nancy. I don't know if you really have thought long and hard about the things you have said. The one reference to the food as being crap was pretty low in my honest opinion. And, to suggest that we would be happy feeding sawdust and vitamins? Really?? Not going to go on about this...simply stated how I feel about your posting lately. I have never seen you carry on this much..not sure exactly what it is really about. But, hey we all have things we feel strongly about.

I did not say "the guy is an idiot". The guy just won't be advising me on what to feed my pups. I didn't say there is no good information on his website either. I said he is making money from all of this.

My point in all of this is that I let the companies do the "research" . My reading the websites of the people you quoted is not what I call research.

Not going to argue with you. ALL I did was post the credentials of someone who I trust when it comes to dog food knowledge....AND make a point that the person you advised us to use for such knowledge does indeed make money off of all of this.

Well, this thread has gone to hell. All that bitching about some things that are obvious as hell. What a waste!

Yorkiemom1 stated, in one thread at some point, that she would still feed RC if 'dunkin' donuts' was in the ingredient list, and I believe she mentioned other odd things, like boots, or something... I don't feel like going back and finding it at the moment...

I know what Yorkiemom1 said and it was just an expression because she was trying to make a point. It was not what Nancy was referring to when she made her recent post. She said that "I feel like" ..... as quoted below: She has also referred to RC as crap food. THAT is all I was referring to.

Whew! Just read the entire thread. Some of you are downright scary, lol. First, Ashley is amazing and I was thrilled to have her join us as I learned so much from her discussion on nutrition which is what she came here to discuss. I will admit I felt a little uncomfortable when she would not directly answer a few of the questions but did not judge her because she was not here to answer those questions and she did link us to the people who could. She was here to talk about the nutrition and science behind the food which she did in a very clear and understandable fashion. I for one loved and needed the analogies. My brain does not like science or math.

Second, I am grateful to learn from this thread that we are a widely diverse group of individuals and not a bunch of Stepford Wives just spouting the party line. There are huge differences of opinion and as far as I can see everyone feels very comfortable sharing their opinions. I love that. Some people got downright nasty which I also loved because now I know who to avoid in the future and who to take with a grain of salt. It is all good.

Having said all that, I feed my puppy Royal Canin because my breeder started her on it and she is doing fabulous on it. See no reason to mess with what is working. I will always listen to everyone's opinions but in the end I have to make my own decisions and own those consequences. Thank you to everyone for contributing to this very educational thread.

I'm just glad that MarkfromSea appreciates my wit and humor. Someday, when I'm accepting my hard earned Emmy Award, I'll thank him publicly . Until then this is the best show of appreciation I can manage. :)

on another note, I want to say thank you, Royal Canin for never having wasted my money when I bought your products. My kids eat every last bite of every bag of RC, making it worth every penny. All of the other brands I spent $ on were a waste of perfectly good casino money, I could very well have won several jackpots on the amount of money spent on other expensive and overrated foods that my pups rejected time after time . They were the equivalent of those homemade knitted sweaters at Xmas from your great grandmother when you were 16 . Such a shiny package, such disappointment at the contents.
But I'll keep feeding Rc because i know when i spend that money on it it won't be wasted. And I'll hit my jackpot someday .

Some of the posts on here are getting a little heated. I totally get why food posts can make us so sensitive and emotional -- I've been there too, and I'm sure I've contributed to it in the past. Let's try to keep things in perspective though, as we're merely talking about dog food, we're not talking about world peace here.

For the most part, everyone has been pretty decent to each other...so let's not go off track, if at all possible. I think we can agree on what's really important here, and that's where we can get the motivation to keep things cool, kind, respectful, understanding. You're all such wonderful people, and I'd hate to see this thread cause any unnecessary friction. We ALL love our dogs SO crazily much, and we all want to feed them well at the end of the day.

As far as various sites/education/learning/qualifications - I honestly think there is plenty of room for all sorts of angles. Personally, I DON'T want my information coming all from one place - I don't believe in putting on those kinds of blinders. Therefore, I really do learn and have learned from all the places mentioned recently (Truth in Pet Food, the Dog Food Project, Dog Food Advisor, Dr. Remillard, Ashley from RC etc).

Oh dear, I've haven't had this good a laugh in a long time! Thanks for maintaining such a great sense of humor :). My Bella was started on Royal Canin by her breeder and I continued it for a while until I noticed that Blue Buffalo was given a higher rating by a human dentist (the infamous Dogfood Advisor). Bella rejected the BB because of the humungous kibble size and I switched her back to RC until she had grown and could eat the rest of the bag of BB (I don't believe in waste, and Bella is not a picky eater). I kept her on BB since the price is similar to that of RC, but I'd switch her back to RC in a heartbeat if she developed problems with the BB, because Ashley really sounds like she knows what she is doing, and I trust the quality control measures that RC has in place.

Hello,
Don't know if people are still participating on this thread, but I've been worried about the decrease of the quality in RC ingredients, my Kenzie loves it but we highly dislike that it no longer contains high quality ingredients, we want our baby to be 10000% healthy and happy.
We called/e-mailed RC to ask about the changes and they say it's the same premium quality but with minimal changes to the formula, no biggies; excuse me but I'm not okay with my dog eating by-product instead of chicken meal, that's why I'm paying for, if I wanted her to eat by-products I'd buy her any cheap food from WalMart.
And they offered to send me more info so I'd read that this change isn't that bad as I see it, they send me the info and I'm still concerned.
Having spent the first year of Kenzie's life at the vet cause of a bad allergy cause by Hills' Science Diet, I really care about what I'm feeding her.

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:thumbup: my thoughts too!

I would have much preferred the option of maintaining ingredients and paying more for the food, than decreasing the food quality. RC clearly isn't in touch with their customer base. Its a yorkie food! Im not feeding great danes, so an increase in the price on one bag that lasts a month, isnt going to kill my budget, it's not like we're going through a bag every couple of days.

Their other mistake was not informing their customers of the change in an "open" manner. It was some newbie novice that started an RC thread that brought the formula change to light here at YT. :D Not the company, as it should have been.

We have to feel good about the company and the food that we feed our pups. For me, I looked at RC, then kept looking elsewhere. There are so many other foods and formulas to choose from that made "ME" feel better feeding my dogs that RC was taken off my list of possibles. For others, RC is still their go to food! That is just fine! :thumbup:

Find a food that you feel good about and that your dog does well with. :animal36

We're using a Wellness and a Solid Gold product currently.

Exactly!
If only they'd asked us about the change, but they didn't care.
I've also noticed that some other formulas still contain chicken meal like the Mini and X-Small ones, why did they decide that the Yorkie formula needed the change from chicken meal to by-products? Still don't get it...
The info they sent says it' s because "we are running out of chickens for human consumption", I'd gladly give up the chickens I'm supposed to eat so my Kenzie gets them, no need to question that.

We don't get that many options here when it comes to dog food, so RC was the best one but seeing this I'm considering to try Nature's Variety Instinct, will have to wait and see if we need to switch or not :/

I'm forgetting some of the details now but yes, it was the yorkie 28 that they "dropped".... they replaced it with just yorkie and that formula has the by product stuff in it and a lower protein %... Other RC customers were using a different RC formula for their yorkies I think because of the volume they were buying, more dogs, more food,.... OR.... they had yorkies that were fine with eating larger kibble???? Their formulas, different RC offerings, either didn't change or didn't change as dramatically so they are going to continue using it, no reason not to... It doesn't make RC a bad company, or their feed a bad food, just a company that doesn't see transparency and openness with their customers as a value. It's no different than any other large company in that way. I certainly wouldn't call them a premium company, they are just another Purina, no better, no worse. I can't recall who wrote it, but it was well said... "With a change like this(changing the RC yorkie ingredients) you may as well buy one of the better Purina products and pay half the price of the RC yorkie product." that wasn't the quote, exactly, just something like that and a fabulous point.

If you're paying for the RC yorkie formula, and have any doubts about the ingredients what so ever, you should find a better feed that is similarly priced somewhere else. You and your dog will get better value, ingredients, at a different company or in a different formula.

If it was chicken organs, I'd be all over that as a good change, but by product, that's an open menu to whatever is cheapest at the time that they buy the ingredient. LOL It could be cast iron, fiberglass, rubber, leather... LOL (a joke from within this thread) ;)

I was just about to write that there are hundreds of options for us,,,, I just noticed you're in Mexico! I don't know what options you have.

For Dogs | Instinct Pet Food for Dogs and Cats There's still quite a few to choose from in that line. Kibble size, my little old guy needs the tiny kibble. Our young guy, 10 pounds, I saw him eat full size kibble at the rescue so, LOL, any size goes for our youngster! LOL

But yes, if you pay or paid for RCs yorkie or yorkie 28, you may as well get one of these "exotic" or "holistic" foods such as Nature's Variety Instinct. I think Fromm has one of these premium feeds at less than RC and great reviews. I just ordered a bag of Wellness Core Ocean from chewy.com for our 10 pound youngster. Wellness CORE Grain-Free Ocean Formula If it gives him more energy, I'm in trouble though! LOL It was well under $3 a pound to my front door, should be here in a couple more days.

I liked the idea of a breed specific formula, but, then found that the strongest supporters of RC here at YT weren't using the breed specific formula. At least, that's what I understood from reading what they wrote in the 3 threads associated with this RC yorkie 28 formula change. So, breed specific formulas just aren't required and probably have more to do with marketing than anything else.

I have to use the extra small Royal Canin Adult with my 6 pound Biewer, he struggles with the Yorkie adult but was fine with the puppy. The pieces are too big. Is this just as good for his coat?

Might want to start a new thread for that question.... This particular thread went south and, just a guess, most members here would avoid it at this point and not read it. you'll have better luck in a new thread....

And, Welcome to YT! :cool: