Since this is directed at one of my posts, I CAN read long paragraphs. I choose not to because they're obnoxious to read and hurt my eyes. I was taught back in elementary school to not have long run on sentences and long never ending paragraphs. FWIW, your posts in this thread were super easy to read and follow. :) I kindly asked you once, and since I've seen you nastily bring it up a few more times, that's all I'll say on that subject matter.

At this rate, RC or any other dog food company that comes on here probably thinks YT'ers are a bunch of nuts :p we're just a little passionate, I suppose? :eek:

Thanks for joining us Ashley and giving us your professional opinion. I don't agree with everything, simply as a pet consumer, but eh what do I know, I guess? I just go with my gut, what I feel comfortable with, and what my dog does best on.

I don't like a lot of the newer 'holistic' type companies either. I appreciate the research that RC has put into their foods. I'm not even 100% against by products but I do feel this formula change is a downgrade. JMO.

Hi Ashley and welcome to YT! I've had my Yorkie just short of 2 years now and I started out using several name brand foods but she refused to eat them so I looked for long time Yorkie owners and Breeders on this site to see what they were feeding. I decided on R/C puppy and then moved my girl over to the adult at a yr. old. Picking out a good food can be confusing to some of us newbies. I noticed the change on the bag but didn't think too much about it. I'm glad you're here! I will come back to review more of this conversation for sure!

Hi deb! Your Yorkshire terriers are all so very beautiful and definitely live up to their 'amazing' title. Your lovely pups and of course Judy's fabulous rose hill yorkie's are a lot of the reason I switched my little girl to royal canin- the long term experience and obviously superior outcome was impressive and I decided to follow the direction of some leading yt ladies and try it out- she responded very well! She is not doing well with the current rc yt adult, she is back on rc yt puppy for now and doing well with that. I noticed Judy uses rc mini (hopefully I got that accurate) and I am considering trying that for my girl (as she is past puppy stage and needs a proper adult food)- may I ask what formula you use?

I use breeder bags, which I order from RC as a breeder....in 33# bags. The bags say PROFESSIONAL ADULT MINI....maybe Ashley can respond and let us know what formula/bag that is for consumers....I will go on Chewy.com and see what formulas they offer and see if what I use is on there.....if Ashley does not get back to you on here shortly, I can contact her or my rep and see what she says....

The shorter paragraphs help my eyes also. There's plenty that I don't read because of the discomfort associated with longer paragraphs.

Advertising, marketing, value added product, "FREE"(LMAO), market share, product specialization, niche, holistic is an example...... it's in everything from politics to produce. Our best asset is knowledge and our ability to look something up and analyze/decipher it, find what best applies to our individual needs.

Thanks Judy! :rainbow:

On Chewy.com, it is Mini Adult that I use with the Jack Russel Terrier on the front....I have also used the Indoor Adult with the Pom on the front, when some of my seniors no longer had the youth or inclination to run all over the back yard, they lounged indoors, enjoying languishing in sunbeams that crossed the sunroom floor/furniture. I have never used the Mini weight care with the cairne terrier (?) on the front......

I have always like the kibble shape better in these formulas, rather than the little pillow shapes in the breed specific. They seemed to eat the little pillow shaped kibble faster, without chewing....I like them to chew their food!.....my babies eat any of the RC, so I did the kibble shape more for me than them! I figured as long as RC was involved in the research and testing of the food, any of the formulas would be great for my dogs.... I am anxious to see what Ashley says about the difference in the breed specific formula versus the plain Mini Adult!

:thumbup:

Geez, now we can't even share our personal opinions of how we that actually feed the product in question feel about what a dog food company did? Nancy, you clearly stated it as your opinion. Well, it happens to be the same as mine!

I have fed this food to ZoE since she was six weeks old. I'm sitting here with two bags of RC with clearly different ingredients. There's no notice on the newer bag of a change in formula. No heads up or hey you might like to know that we've made changes. I think it is sneaky & shady as hell, and I'm totally ticked off by it!

I said it breaks the trust that I as a consumer have in this company. If they do a switch with no notice with one formula of food are they likely to do it with another formula in the future...most probably, in MY opinion! As a loyal customer, forking over my hard earned money for their product, I expect to be infòrmed, not to have to be on the lookout for a sly change. It's bad business practice, in MY opinion!

Obviously RC is getting word that a lot of us are no longer happy customers (I know I wrote them stating so), hence the RC Rep showing up here for the first time in all these years I've been on YT.

:thumbup::thumbup:

I think it's kind of ironic because if a "holistic" company had done something like this (changed ingredients w/ little to no warning), I am pretty sure there would be members of the forum expressing their opinions about it and how these companies aren't all they're cracked up to be.

Acana, a food I fed successfully for a few years, did change their ingredients and I wasn't happy with it honestly, and did stop feeding it briefly, but they also made it very well known. I got emails from the company, their website stated "NEW formulas", all the stores were informed of changes and to inform customers, the bags all say "NEW" on it. It was pretty obvious to anyone feeding it there were going to be changes. Some dogs do poorly with even minimal changes so I do think making it well known is a big deal.

I am back to feeding Acana and have been because I decided to give it's new formula a chance, it's what he always did best on and ate for years, and everything has been smooth sailing. Do I honestly think the company is 100% trustworthy in everything they do? Nope, I do not. I've read some downright annoying things about them. But I don't think any dog food company is going to be entirely forthcoming or trustworthy and I don't think RC is above that either. I also would never blindly follow any food so much that I'd feed it if 'Dunkin Donuts' was the first ingredient. Lol. Wow to that one....

I also should add that I do not think rice, corn and by products are going to kill a dog either and are perfectly acceptable to feed if formulated correctly. I just don't necessarily agree with their reasoning for changing and do not like how they 'handled' the change. My opinion, again. Nope not trained or certified in any kind of nutrition.

I see it as them being made aware of concerns and I am impressed because most companies would ignore all of us.

I wrote to a company three times with questions and they never bothered to respond. I then called and was treated like I was an idiot. They surely did not come to YT to talk about the things I wanted to know about...such as who their professionals were that they spoke about on their website...no names, no credentials, only a blurb about the best in the business. They had a slick website but that was it...slick.

Nope...I wouldn't because I don't focus on ingredients. What I will say is that I will always jump on the "holistic" recalls of which there have been many. Scary and that is why I go with companies that I believe spend their money the right way...on professionals and feeding trials.

The question I have for you is this: Did you feed the food because RC marketed it based upon ingredients? Or did they market it as a food fit for the Yorkshire Terrier breed? Do you know enough about nutrition to know if this food is no longer fit for the Yorkshire Terrier breed? I don't feed the food but have looked at it...and don't recall them ever saying we don't use this or that in our foods. I think that is the main point here! I don't see how they were sneaky at all...but that's just me and as I said, I don't buy all the hoopla about ingredients...I look at companies that I believe are safer. I think they had to change for the reasons she stated and they did it after careful consideration. They have a reputation to maintain...I hardly doubt they did this will any any ill intent...or did something that is going to change the outcome if a person feeds that food. I would have no qualms about using that food if I was not already happy with what I feed my pups.

I don't disagree with this. I believe most of the newer foods out there can be very scary.

Blue Buffalo is one that amuses me with their commercials and how horrible these other foods are... yet they're equally as bad, IMO. Slick marketing, like you said. And people buy it and believe it.

I mean, I basically am agreeing with you, I agree that if your dog does well on a food, don't write it off as being bad just because of an ingredient or two. Look at how the ingredients work together, look at the nutrient panel, look at the research behind the food. I would never rule out a food simply because it doesn't have a popular ingredient list. But I don't think ingredients mean *nothing*. BUT, I do think there is a limit, and what I am comfortable with and as a non-professional loving pet owner, nope, I wouldn't feed the YT RC food personally. And it's fine if people do and I am sure dogs will still do well if they had before. Just not for me and I do understand why some folks are upset.

I would sooner feed Purina Sport or Purina SSS for the price and the research and feeding trials personally.

Quote:
"Obviously RC is getting word that a lot of us are no longer happy customers (I know I wrote them stating so), hence the RC Rep showing up here for the first time in all these years I've been on YT"

I have been a customer of RC for over 35 years. I am in constant communication with them over all that time, for a variety of reasons and questions and explanations....and begging for product accessability! While I did mention YT and all the people that were upset with the label change, believe me, if anyone from RC chose to show up here, they did so out of the kindness of their hearts, not to try to salvage the company's bottom line!

The handful of "disgruntled" people on YT that are unhappy with RC, does not even amount to a drop in the bucket, as far as keeping RC afloat and selling dog food! This is a global dog food company....they sold dogfood for at least 10 years all over Europe, Asia, Canada, etc., before they came to the USA.... RC certainly does not really have to waste their time trying to "save their business" by coming on this forum, trying to educate people and perhaps answer questions they may have about dog food and the myths surrounding the ingredients. I know YT has a huge following, but to presume that RC came here because they were in a financial bind "since so many people on YT were now looking elsewhere"...I just wish we were all THAT important to anyone!!!....and I actually dont really believe there are actually that huge number of people that have been feeding RTC, have had no ill effects from feeding it, their dogs love it and thrive on it, and because the ingredients label moved positions of some ingredients, they kick this great food to the curb and jump into the frey of trying to find another dog food that their dogs do as well on, like as well, etc. It is just halariously funny to think this RC rep came here with any other intention other than trying to educate and clarify and explane to some people why the changes were done, what they mean, etc.

I appreciate the people that have accepted her gracious contribution in the spirit it was given, rather than insulting her, calling the company unethical, and insinuating the only reason she showed up is because this forum has some how injured/affected their bottom line! This huge, huge company has terrific customer service, and responding to a question or complaint is simply to provide that customer or handful of customers with clarity, not a desperate attempt to "save" the company from ruin! Like I said, this company is global, they sell to millions and millions of people all over the world, and they have been a huge, booming business, producing a product that many, many people are exceedingly happy with.......the few people on YT that are not happy and thoroughly disgusted with the "horrific" changes made by RC, are not going to be swayed by the contributions of a nutritionist....fault will be found with anything she says or does, and reasons why she has come to help will be misconstrued and misjudged.

It is rather amusing that some of the people that are so very concerned about telling abusive, negligent pet owners what THEY are doing wrong and are so appalled with breeders and others that try to educate and inform these people, will quickly insult or try to discredit a professional that is offering unsolicited advice and help about nutrition and the product/company she works for, with no concern SHE will get "her feelings hurt and run away into the shadows, never to return". She is the only one that has ever come to this site and done that....There has never been a vet or a nutritionist, or a researcher or a scientist that has bothered to show up and offer their time or expertise to anyone on YT for any reason. Thank you Ashley, you really are appreciated by soooo many more on here....I will call them "The Silent Majority"! They may not agree with you, but they will ask and think about it and learn.

:yeahthat: :thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:

It's actually in YT's Rules and Guidelines that long paragraphs are *not* to be used bc they're unreadable for most members:

3. Please do not use overly large fonts or hard to read fonts/colors. Your account privileges may be restricted if this courtesy isn't followed. Except for emphasis, please do not use ALL CAPITAL LETTERS when posting, as this can symbolize shouting. Please, do not write your posts using 1 overly-long paragraph - it must be broken into paragraphs for readability.

Just a comment on this thread -- ALL are welcome to express their opinion here, no matter their opinion of RC, whether positive or negative. If they think the company unscrupulous, so be it - if the next person thinks they're scrupulous, so be it. EVERYONE here has a right, according to our rules, to express exactly what they think of a *dog food* and/or the company who makes it and/or the person who chooses to come here and represent that company.

I feed premade raw and I just imagine how people would react if someone from Primal or Nature's Variety came here to represent - my gosh, they'd likely be pummeled into next week for daring to support raw! But I wouldn't take it personally, and I'd hope people here wouldn't take it personally if people don't agree with RC or it's representative.

Let the discussion be one. :)

Does RC do plant tours for pet owners? Are there US locations where they're done?

A welcome to all :)
 

Hi again everyone :aimeeyork!

I first of all want to take the time to thank all the yorkie parents who have made their way to this forum! Whether it is to post a question, share their feedback or start a discussion, know all are welcome here.

As a nutritionist with experience in both the human and companion animal world, I respect many views and options on diet selection. This is the amazing reason we are all different! I say this all the time... If we were to take every person who has commented on this thread and feed them the same diet, what would happen? Well that diet may be good for one or two of us, but some of us may gain weight, some loose weight, some may feel more tired, some may require iron supplementation, some may experience dry or brittle hair....etc. This is the reason I respect owner's choices for feeding their pet. My only request, that you feed a food that makes your dog healthy and thrive :) All I can do is inform you about nutrition in general and RC formulas. I can't comment on other diets because I don't have their research/knowledge at my fingers.

My goal on here is to share RC's knowledge and understanding of the cat and dog. I can pull a lot of the information from text books, scientific literature, feeding trials and also our Walthams Research Center in the UK.

Thank you to everyone who has posted in the last... oh 18 hours or so (lol). There are a lot of questions people have, so bare with me as I try to make my way through answering them for you. I will try to quote as many posts as I can, but if I may have missed yours... sorry in advance. I tried to compile similar topics, so look to the title to find the one(s) that interest you.

Have a great day!
Ashley

Brewers Rice and Corn
 

Hello again:aimeeyork!

Let’s go into some detail about Brewers Rice and Corn for this post

Brewers Rice:
Brewers rice is essentially broken white rice. The more “visually” desirable whole white rice pieces are sifted from the broken white rice pieces to be used in the human food chain. The remaining broken pieces contain identical nutrition to the whole white rice pieces. This is used in the brewing industry or in the pet food industry.

Brewers rice primarily consists of starch; an energy providing nutrient that is also essential to the structure of kibble. It also is a source of protein. You can read more about the different types of rice here: The "Sticky" on Rice / Nutrition Corner / Your Pet's Nutrition / Home - RoyalCanin

Corn:
Corn is what I lovingly called the golden nugget of nutrients. It is packed full of beneficial nutrients, some many people don’t even realize! You can get highly digestible protein (including amino acids methionine and cysteine, which are important for coat health), omega 6 fatty acids (including linoleic acid, which is important for skin and coat health), fibre (insoluble fibres, this is what the outer shell or capsule is made of), minerals, vitamins and even antioxidants. Yes I said antioxidants!! Corn is an excellent source of lutein and zeaxanthin, two antioxidants important in full body antioxidant protection as well as notably in the eye. Check out this USDA website link to see all the beneficial nutrients Foods List. For some reason the direct links aren't working, but search for "corn dent" and "corn sweet" and select the yellow varieties.

Note that we consume sweet corn, whereas dent corn or field corn is the type used in pet food. Interestingly enough, the corn we use in pet food is actually more nutritious than the corn we consume (though it’s still packed full of nutrients). Why? Human corn is designed to be sweet (therefore it appeals to our sweet taste buds) whereas field corn is designed to be more nutritious, so less sugar but more usable starch for energy. I added a chart showing the two different types of corn side by side and the levels of nutrients (from the USDA website)

Why do we think corn doesn’t provide nutrients to us or our pets? We “see” it in our stool the next day right??? (I won’t go too much into poop… but know it’s probably one of my fav topics) Well we are lazy chewers, and actually what we “see” is just the capsule or outer shell, the insoluble fibre component, which makes its way completely through our bodies shows up in our stool. Think when we bite into a cob of corn. We usually end up spraying every person within 5 ft of us! That’s our teeth breaking through the outer capsule, making all the valuable nutrients mentioned above available for digestion and utilization by the body.

For pet food, we do the chewing for them through grinding. At RC we grind our corn to 0.8mm. The grinding increases the surface area to volume ratio, meaning that there is more area for our digestive enzymes to get in there and digest all the valuable nutrients. Even the insoluble fibre of the capsule is ground down. Remember that fibre but provides gastrointestinal support, including gut health, gut motility and promoting a beneficial bacteria population in the colon.

Hope this helps :)
Ashley

Hi Nancy!

See the answers to your questions below:

The minimum protein of the new YT formula is 26%. The recommended protein level for adult maintenance is a typical analysis of 18% (as per AAFCO). You’re absolutely right about the Yorkie hair. Did you know for the average dog about 30% of the daily protein intake goes to producing hair and skin cells? In a Yorkie, with hair that grows continuously, it’s super important to provide enough protein to maintain their luxurious coats, as well as the right amino acids, and other skin and coat supporting nutrients. The protein in the Yorkie formula provides highly digestible protein in an amount that has been researched to show that it meets their specific needs. A higher quality and digestibility of protein means that less protein is required to meet their needs. If the protein was lower in quality, we would actually need to increase the amount of protein to maintain the digested and utilized protein amounts. In addition, sulfur amino acids like cysteine and methionine provide the precursors for making keratin. Tyrosine and phenylalanine provide the precursors for pigments to make sure they maintain their rich coat colors. The skin barrier complex helps to make their delicate skin stronger.

From my last post remember that crude protein does not provide you information regarding the amino acid profile, the digestibility or the quality of the protein. Therefore the crude protein level on the package of Yorkie changed, but the actual nutrition and benefits provided to the pet remained the same. Ingredients are the vehicles to bring nutrients into the body. RC’s focus is the nutrient profile that is being provided to the pets we feed. Here is another analogy ;) Think about watering plants using a watering can. The watering can is the vehicle for the water. If one day you used a different watering can, but the water it supplied to the plants was the same, is the change significant?

Royal Canin did not purchase any other pet food companies. Royal Canin is part of the MARS Petcare family, which simply means that we all live under the same parent umbrella. When MARS acquires other pet food companies, it does not change the way that Royal Canin does business, nor does it impact our quality control measures or our ingredient selection.

By-products that you mentioned above, such as feet, are actually highly consumed in other populations, notably the Asian population. The North American population tends to consider muscle meat (such as the breasts, thighs etc.) to be the most desirable part of the chicken. But in other countries around the world, what we might consider un-desirable in NA is deemed as a delicacy and highly nutritious for them. One of our veterinarians here is originally from a little island near France where insects are considered a delicacy. He can’t believe that we don’t widely consume them here because they are packed full of protein and beneficial nutrients.

Ingredient names themselves are very misleading, no matter what ingredient you are talking about. This is the problem with trying to read pet food labels. The name of an ingredient tells you nothing about the quality, digestibility, or the nutrition the ingredient provides. Remember that meat is not the only source of protein. Any vegetarians or vegans out there can attest to that. Grains, vegetables , dairy etc. are all great sources of protein as well. The important things to consider are the amino acids that protein provides, how digestible it is and the quality. I know I repeat those often, but I think it is so commonly overlooked for determining how beneficial a protein source is for the dog.

Thanks for the questions!
Ashley

Hi @BOS,

Happy to hear you were able to find the nutrition solution that works best for your pup!

Ashley :)

Hi @ladyjane!

I'll have to keep an eye out for her. But... they are such a good resource for RC, we can't help but snatch them up ;)

I love to hear success stories too!! Keep sharing!

Ashley

RC Ingredient Label Changes
 

Hi everyone,

There was some discussion around ingredient changes and the communication to the owner. I wanted to take a moment and chat about that:

RC communicates on package if there is a significant change to the formula that would require a dietary transition. For example, if we adjusted the fibre level of a formula based on consumer and feeding trial feedback, we would want to communicate this change to the owner so they can do a gradual transition as a dramatic change could result in digestive upset (and that’s never what we want when we are improving a formula). If we are simply switching one ingredient for another ingredient that provides the same nutrients to the pet (ie one watering can for another watering can... see Crude Protein post for full analogy) the change will not affect the dog.

@ladyjane had some good point that reflects our nutrient philosophy:
We know that ingredients might change down the road, but that the nutrition and the benefits to the pet can be maintained. In fact for RC, similar formulas in different countries can have identical nutrient profiles (determined by research and feeding trials at our campus in France) but have different ingredient decks depending on the ingredients available in that country the food is made in. We have 12 plants around the world (3 here in North America) and it is not possible for Canada to source the same ingredients that South Africa does... but, for example, the Yorkie formulas will provide the exact same benefits to the YT. I don't know about you, but for a nutritionist I find it completely fascinating and important... ok I'm a little bit of a nerd (where's the nerdy smiley icon when I need it..I guess this one will have to do :book:) Think of human diets. Here is a broad example, if you were looking to consume a specific amount of protein, fat, and carbohydrates, there are many ways to do it. Ie: 1) tufu with spanish rice and beans, 2) chicken and mashed potatoes, 3) strawberry smoothie with protein powder and 2% milk. These will all provide the same profile of macronutrients to the human who consumed them, but are all very different ingredients providing those nutrients

Thanks!
Ashley

Not sure what you mean by vested interest? While I'm a contributing member, I make no money from this forum through any type of sales or services or anything else.

I didn't change the food immediately because I was mad at the company. I changed it because I realized I was feeding them a crap food, that had been a good food. I am mad at the company because they didn't inform consumers of the big change on the bag. Your logic doesn't make sense to me, yes, they did well on a certain food for 8 years, RC changed the food, so I no longer could keep the boys on the same food. What about that don't you understand? Why would I believe that they would continue to do well on a very poor substitute? Just because name Royal Canin is on the bag?

What kind of formula are you using? The Royal Canin formula for Yorkshire Terriers changed significantly. Protein is no longer the first ingredient. Brewers rice is the first ingredient.

I made that comment because of a private message you once sent to me telling me how I should post. :) It was along those lines. I told you exactly what you told me...I don't get paid here. :) It's all good, Nancy. :) It IS true that we can all post our opinions. I post mine all of the time as you and others do. All part of a learning experience. I felt many were rude, but that is only my opinion. Lots think I am rude. It's all how you read things.

I am not going to have any further discourse on this as it only serves to distract from the important topic at hand and I am loving learning from our new member.

I especially loved the corn remarks made by her today....very clear picture and well written.

:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:
Alot of what you pointed out above, applies to many of us.....!
I am really enjoying reading her responses. I am waiting for her to advise on giving the Adult Mini versus the Yorkie Breed specific kibble! Since I dont know any other way to do it, I have copied/pasted her responses and put them in a folder for my own future use!

Yes, I believed it was better done in private than on the forum. I also told you that I received PM's almost daily asking me why you were so hard on people, those are gentle words. I defended you for years, and told those people who wrote to me, to write you, they didn't want to, and some were actually fearful. I always thought you were giving good information and I thought I should share with you what a lot of people were saying. I knew I would risk your wrath, if you didn't take it the right way, but I thought it was worth it. I don't like to gossip, I think I passed on good information to you. Truthfully, I do think you write much kinder now than you use to.

Hi @Potter and everyone!

I can't believe how many of you would love to visit our RC plants :) how exciting!

For everyone's info, RC owns and operates three manufacturing facilities in North America
1) Guelph, Ontario, Canada :canada2: (dry facility, where I'm currently sitting right now)
2) Rolla, Missouri, US :flag42: (dry facility)
3) North Sioux City, South Dakota, US :flag42: (canned facility)

I might need to clarify my original post. One of my roles here is to provide plant and lab tours to veterinarians, breeders, rescues and pet store employees. What I was leaning towards with this was that my expertise in this area can help answer any questions you might have around manufacturing processes, quality and food safety.

I know many of you would love a plant tour... I always love showing off our state of the art plant (check out my profile pic with my 2 girls Ella and Marti in the front and our Guelph plant in the background). For Canada, regional reps currently schedule tours for their respective teams. If you are a Canadian breeder, feel free to contact your Royal Canin PRO representative and express your interest in a plant tour. For my US friends... sorry I'm not sure how plant tour requests are handled for them.

Currently we don't have consumer plant tours... but it's something that we are looking into :)

Thanks!
Ashley