Yes, you are very very very detailed, but you still don't answer the questions I've asked. I pretty much got the same thing on the phone reply, how they have specific quality control, I'm not asking about quality control, I'm asking if your vitamins come from China. Who in the company will answer this question? It does involve pet nutrition if it goes into their food.

I do know that Fromm and Farmina have both answered this question, I believe. I'll have to find where I found it.

Yes, I've been able to find the answer from other companies as well. I've also tried emailing the company, since the phone call didn't work. So far, they haven't answered the question, they too have explained quality control. I asked them specifically, do any vitamins and minerals come from China. In some ways, not answering, answers the question.

Carbohydrates are a source of energy (calories) that can be easily metabolized to carbon dioxide and water without producing toxic byproducts that would be taxing to the liver and kidneys. <-- How did I do with that answer?

I think I may have confused free radicals with oxidative stress cells earlier. Whatever. It was morning. I don't do mornings well.

Quality and Safety
 

Hi Nancy,

I think what you’re asking is whether or not our ingredients are safe for your pet and all pets. This is the answer I am trying to give you. The safety and nutritional value of the ingredients we use cannot be judged simply by knowing if it comes from China or any other country. Royal Canin takes relationships with each ingredient suppliers extremely seriously. No expense is spared in this area because this is where guaranteeing food safety and quality begins. It takes months and sometimes years for a potential supplier to complete our validation process, and there is an ongoing auditing and validation process that occurs with every supplier we use. If a supplier can’t keep up with our rigorous quality and safety standards, we stop working with them. Period. Simply knowing whether or not an ingredient comes from a particular country does not answer your question about ingredient safety/quality, and continuing to discuss ingredients in this way will not serve any positive purpose. This is a message that needs to get out to all pet owners. We should not participate in vilifying or scapegoating an entity, especially since doing so does not help us understand what food quality and safety is for our pets.

To reiterate, regardless of which country any of our ingredients come from, they all go through a battery of tests BEFORE they are purchased and then further before they are accepted into the plant, and this happens for every single delivery. For example, one of these tests is the NIRS, which confirms that the ingredient is exactly what we ordered, and that it is free from any type of contamination. This means that even if we’re not looking for a particular contaminant, it will be identified and prevented from entering the food chain. Feel free to revisit posts #10, 54, 108, 109 if you would like to review what I already said about the testing that is performed by RC to ensure quality, consistency, and food safety.

So, I’m hoping you see that I have provided the answer to your question. I do not want to continue misleading anyone to thinking that ingredients from China are dangerous, or that not using ingredients from China (or any other country) is a benchmark of safety. That would not only be irresponsible and unjust, but also a gross minimization of what actual food safety and quality consist of.

Regards,
Ashley :animal36

Carbohydrates
 

Thank you pstinard for your answer, you are absolutely right, carbohydrates are a great source of easily metabolized energy!

Carbohydrates are a class of nutrients that include sugars, starches and fibres. Carbohydrates, as the name suggests, are composed of Carbo-, carbon, and ¬–hydrates, water (H20, or hydrogen and oxygen). Sugars and starches can be digested and absorbed by the body and can provide energy. Fibres, on the other hand are not digested or absorbed by the body and do not directly provide energy. Fibres will remain in the digestive tract, where their functions exist.

Sugars are the most basic form of carbohydrates. They are the building blocks of starches and fibres. Examples of sugars include gluctose and fructose. Did you know glucose is the preferred energy source for the brain?

Starches are the next class of carbohydrates. They are more complex as they are many sugar molecules attached together. Starches are the energy storage form in plants. Glycogen is similar starches, but rather it is the carbohydrate energy storage form in animals.

Fibres are the final class of carbohydrates. Their role in plants is a structural one, providing the “rigid” structure required for plant cells. Fibres can be grouped into different classes: Soluble (absorb water, such as psyllium) or Insoluble (attract or cling to water, such as cellulose), and Fermentable (utilized by the colonic bacteria) or Non-fermentable (not utilized by the colonic bacteria).

But if carbohydrates are not considered essential, why do we use them? First let’s look at what essential means. Essential means the body cannot manufacture or cannot manufacture in sufficient quantities required. Non-essential means that the body can either manufacture sufficient quantities of the nutrient or it is not required for survival. Does non-essential therefore mean not important or beneficial? No. In fact, we consume many beneficial nutrients every day that are not considered essential (think Metamucil for those of us who suffer from constipation).

What kind of roles can carbohydrates play in the body? MANY! Here some examples, just to name a few:

Energy: As we talked about, starches are an excellent source of readily available energy in the body. They provide the same level of energy as protein (about 4 kcal/g). Protein is also suitable energy source, but it is involved in so many other tissues and pathways in the body, it would not be utilizing it for its best abilities…. And I have an analogy for that ;) If you were building a campfire, you could do so using kindling and firewood, or you could do so with bunches of $100 bills. Both will burn. But if you burn the money, then you can't use it for buying things (like using protein for other important roles in the body).... Same goes for energy in the body..... Eliminating carbs and replacing them with fat and protein is possible, but why would you do that.... it's expensive and wasteful.

Satiety: Satiety is the feeling of fullness. After you eat food your stomach expands. This sends a signal to the brain letting you know you’re full. For some dogs (and yes Labs, I’m looking at you) they eat too fast and therefore the satiety sensation doesn’t have time to sink in. Not feeling full can lead to overeating and weight gain. Fibres can play a role here. As I talked about, some absorb water. Psyllium for example can absorb 10x its own weight in water forming a gel. This can help to provide that feeling of fullness that some dogs need.

Gastrointestinal Health: Fibres are not digested and absorbed by the body, which means they remain in the GI tract. This means all their beneficial roles are located here! From promoting GI motility (movement of food through the GI tract) to scraping away dead GI cells, to promoting a beneficial bacteria population in the colon, different types of fibres can contribute to GI health in a variety of different ways.

Texture: Carbohydrates are critical in achieving the final texture of a kibble, which is extra important for dogs and cats. While people rely very heavily on taste to decide if a food is palatable (humans have 9,000 taste buds and 2-10million olfactory cells), dogs and cats rely more heavily on smell mouth feel to decide if a food is palatable (dogs and cats have 1700 and 500 taste buds, and 80-220million and 60-70 million olfactory cells respectively).

Can anyone think of any other benefits of carbohydrates we could touch on?

Ashley :animal36

Based on my years in the retail business (and psychology!), I would say that no answer can be construed as an affirmative. I think we can ascertain that the ingredients come from China or some other similar source hence the focus on trying to distract you from a very overt question.


Good sales technique for those who fall for it but not so for those who see through it...


Nice objection handling attempt, though! If I were recording the attempt as a call and screening it for quality, I would grade it as a pass on the audit...lol


Good sales, bad ethics.


I don't even use RC and now I won't for sure...lol

I have never ever heard of a pet food company that won't answer the VERY BASIC question about where they source their products.

I am actually shocked that this information isn't made readily available to ANYONE who needs/wants to know this information.

And Ashley, I am deeply disappointed in the way that you're clearly talking in circles around this subject, rather than just answering the questions. We all know that you have access to the answers and the fact that you're talking in circles about this to our Members comes off as very disrespectful, purposely misleading, and just dishonest.

If you're here to represent the company - which you clearly are as is obvious in your user name, then why not do just that and and answer your company-specific questions?

If you're here to just educate the general public about pet nutrition out of your enjoyment in educating others - then why do you have "Royal Canin" in your user name?

This feels very uncomfortable to me and I'm not sure this kind of "I'm selling but not selling" is what this section is here for. We have never allowed such an approach in the past from vendors who post here and who also represent a certain pet food as we see the promotion of the food/company by the person as a conflict of interest.

This is exactly where I expected this to end up....dam if you do, dam if you dont. Ashley was clearly in a no win situation here. Not at all surprised by this outcome.

I think the "win" would've been to just simply and honestly and clearly answer questions. When a person clearly talks in circles rather than just say "Yes, we source from China and here's why...." -- it will never, ever come off well, nor as up front. Being truthful and clear is always the right road to take.

You posted earlier that RC did NOT source protein from China for US and RC foods. Just sayin...

Analogy: We've come to accept that Japanese car manufacturers set the bar higher for American car manufacturers to follow but Mexican made airbags have killed and maimed people driving those cars. Country of origin for any single ingredient is a major concern for safety!

Based on the run around about Nancy's question, RC has either used in the past, currently uses or hasn't ruled out using them in the future.

Here's one thought, trying to be an optimist here: The possibility exists that RC uses the price point of available Chinese vits and mins to negotiate a lower purchase price of domestically produced vits and mins. This leverage certainly would be something they wouldn't want to lose.

:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:

I have to agree with this. I would rather hear "yes and here's why" too.

Thanks for the mini and Yorkshire Terrier feed explanations as well as the carbohydrate breakdown. I found those informative and potentially useful. Thanks Ashley!

Just a friendly reminder or thought here, Ashley is an employee. As such she's got to tow the company line here or pay the price. I wouldn't be too hard on her. RC has made a change, looks major enough for me to think, "I probably won't be using their Yorkie specific feed," but, I am interested in reading some additional info from Ashley, courtesy of RC.

Generally, truth is found somewhere in the middle of two debating sides.

So I'm Confused... Do they or Don't they source from China?? :confused:

That was me i use the small breed formula Hypoallergenic and not Hyperallergenic. ;)

They won't say they don't. One of their twelve facilities is in China.

So I personally would assume they do.

Other websites say RC sources vitamins from China.

The whole lack of transparency, I have a problem with. Honesty builds trust, talking in circles...not so much so. I'm done with RC.

Yeah... I'm thinking the same. this is disappointing. Not sure what I'm going to do yet

To each his own.

I don't contact Hill's, RC and Purina and ask them where they get each and every ingredient in their foods. I trust that they do exactly as Ashley has described. Telling me where they buy things for my dogs' foods is not going to tell me how reliable they are. They are the companies I use and will continue to use because I trust their quality control. I don't honestly care if they purchase from China as long as I know they are testing as they say they are. I have seen plenty of disasters in the dog food industry that had nothing to do with China...some maybe did...but again, not ALL companies were affected. That is why I trust who I trust. I think she is trying to draw a picture that no one wants to accept. It is NOT about WHERE things come from as much as HOW reliable the quality control is. *shrug*

Personally, I see all this as a waste of her time. It has also become a waste of my time as well. I really looked forward to her talks about nutrition, but no one really wants that and they will continue to turn this thread into whatever it is and I don't have time to wade through it all. No, she is not going to give the answers that some of you want....honestly, if she said all came from the US, you who are on this case so heavily would not feed RC anyway. So...really? I am sorry, but this is such a waste that I am not even going to bother reading it anymore. Sadly, it is, as I said, typical internet *stuff*.

Now, back to your regular scheduled programming. Grain of salt I say! I will not be back. LOL

Doesn't most vitamins for people & pets come from China?

I know Balance IT was very truthful in telling me where they get their vitamins...they said it's very hard to source vitamin B from the U.S., so that comes from China. All their other vitamins are sourced here, in the U.S.A. They do test all their vitamins for purity, potency & safety, I was satisfied w/their answer.

Most pet food vitamin premixes come from China. They say 'all ingredients are from the U.S.A' on their packages...when their vitamin premix is from China. Like Balance IT said, it's very hard to source vitamin B from the U.S...do you think these corporate giants & smaller companies are going to spend that xtra $ to source vitamin B from the U.S & cut through their cost? Just bc it's packaged here & sold here does not mean it's made in the U.S.A.

We, as consumers have the right to know.

I was able to get a reply from them, persistence pays off! Here's what they said, " . . . However, like most other pet food and human food companies, we are only able to source some of our vitamins and minerals from China."

I'm glad that they answered my question, but I think it's misleading to say that there is not another source for certain vitamins. I think there are trying to say, for the price we want to pay, China is the place we have to go. I think the chicken jerky scare this past year really made me aware of the fact that even if a company is promising quality control, they don't always know what's causing the problem and it took so long before they found out what was causing all the dogs deaths. There are some dog food companies who do not use China as a source for their vitamins.


Jenny, regarding Balance It supplement I've been told that PetDiet's supplement doesn't use any vitamins from China. Cathy (Barney) said this on another thread.

A discussion about nutrition and how all that stuff interacts, the uses for grains and why they are used, etc., it was all very interesting. Unfortunately, this became more about her "skills at deception" and "hidden agendas" and dancing around in circles not answering questions".....questions that were clearly meant to do nothing more than corner her into saying any part of what RC uses comes from China, at which point, there would then be yet a new point of attack, and it goes on and on. People that do not like RC and do not intend to feed it, or intend to stop feeding it, will not take anything away from her posts, including anything she tries to say about quality control and quality management.

This is nothing but a waste of her time and while I hate to see her go, because there actually are people on here that have enjoyed reading her posts, and have probably learn a fact or two about what she posted, I certainly would understand her departure. She came here as a nutritionist, to answer questions about building blocks in the food we feed....she did not come here to defend RC or to sell RC, or to coax people to change their minds about what RC uses and where it is sourced from, and I believe she was bludgeoned by people that already had decided they were not going to feed RC, as well as people that never have fed the diet so they are totally clueless about personal trial results. Too bad they didnt just skip her posts and allow people with an honest interest in what she was trying to impart to them, continue to enjoy the opportunity to possibly learn something. I personally would advise her to leave....her posts are no longer doing what they were designed to do, and have become nothing but an opportunity for people that do not like RC, to denigrate the product.

Unfortunately, no one on this forum has used this product as long as I have, with the number of dogs I have. I believe in evidenced based outcomes.....I KNOW what RC does for my dogs, and I will continue to use it until that changes. I feed RC solely because of what it does for my dogs, not because of the graphics or colors or pretty pictures on the bag. Not because of the ingredients list or the order they appear on that list. I am NOT a nutritionist and I do not care what that ingredients list says...it works! My family does not eat this dog food, so I can not say how it affects my family's health. My dogs are healthy, they love the food, and that is the bottom line....it works for my dogs, it always has. When it no longer does this, there is no reason to continue to use it. I fold, I am out too.

With that question answered, RC does use some ingredients from China, what's next?

How many other dog foods use some ingredients from China? How common is it?

Search Results china
This is short and sweet: China-Free Dog Food? Don't Count on It

I do intend on calling Wellness to see if they are in the same boat, they're gone for the day. Having just learned what I read, it's likely that most pet foods contain ingredients from china. That sucks but is what it is. I had no idea! Thanks for asking Nancy!

Hey Ashley, my little old guy eats his minimum amount recommended, 1/3 cup of kibble per day, and never his maximum amount recommended, 1/2 cup of kibble per day. What does RC use to stimulate appetite? Apparently, my little old guy thinks Wellness Complete Health Toy Senior sucks. My better half mixes in chopped chicken and broth to get him to at least eat the minimum amount. Yes, the added chopped chicken brings his volume consumed up closer to the 1/2 cup but is there something specific that RC uses? I've read that smell and texture is more important than flavor.

Fifth owners, 11-13 yrs old, 5 pound, currently walks 3 miles 5 times per week. His energy level seems a little lower than when he was on Nutro Toy Senior, but it's tough to quantify.

I don't think Ashley will leave because people are questioning if ingredients are coming from China. I doubt if that is Ashley's doings anyway. I agree with Mark in that it is probably company policy not to disclose certain things and it is not Ashley's fault. Now I think that probably most dog food contains something from China.

I just want to be aware of ingredients from China because of the chicken jerky scare. 10 years ago when my dogs were puppies we gave them chicken jerky treats from China. Teddy Bear was throwing up a lot and we thought he had a sensitive tummy so we changed dog food a lot. We couldn't figure why he was throwing up undigested food all the time. Then when the warnings first came out about the jerkey treats from China we stopped buying them immediately. Teddy Bear was never sick again. We returned a bag of Jerky treats to Costco and the employee there told us that they were getting a lot of jerky treats returned because dogs who were eating them were sick like Teddy Bear. So I just want to be aware if anything in the food we are feeding them is from China. I don't think that is too much to ask after all we went through with Teddy Bear being sick because of a product coming from China.

I don't dislike Ashley or want her to go away. I appreciate her being here. We can all read what she is telling us about Royal Canin and take away what we want. If I quit feeding my dogs RC food it would be because I felt the company was being deceptive about sourcing ingredients from China (if there are any ingredients from China), more than that there are ingredients from China in it. Because now I am wondering if there is any dog food out there that doesn't have something from China in it. Since we are new to RC and we are on prescription food, the ingredient change in the Yorkie food didn't affect us.

All I know is that I feel fortunate that I still have my little Teddy Bear with me and he wasn't one of the statistics of the Jerky treats from China. But I am going to do what I can to try and make the best choices for them to keep them healthy.

if I change food on my two they might never speak to me again... they love their chinese vitamins from Rc. And they're healthy. And they're picky. I am their slave. I do what they want and they want RC.

I'm not sure why people are upset about chinese vitamin sourcing. I guess its for the same reason I'm upset that my olive oil was made here instead of imported from italy. It doesn't mean I hate the company, I just don't want olive oil that wasn't pressed in Italy. Shame on me for not reading the plastic bottle. We have consumer choices. It doesn't mean the olive oil isn't safe, tasty, or otherwise acceptable. I just don't want it because I want my italian olive oil. I feel the same way about a lot of products... I don't want my tuna from a can where a dolphin was killed or oysters sitting in a soybean oil. This is a different issue than nutrition or QC. As long as people know that, why would the question chase the dog food rep away?

FWIW, I've fed RC and continue to keep some on hand.

Best laugh I've had all morning! Thank You! :p

I'm not upset about the vitamins from China...a company should be able to answer your questions w/out any hesitation.

I was very happy w/Balance IT's quick & helpful response. I wouldn't hesitate using it...