My Royal Canin Rep's Response To Me...

[MarkFromSea]

I read about ingredient splitting some time ago at dogfoodadvisor some time last winter. There's some very good information there in amongst his ratings. Even that Canadian co in Canada that produces very good food, Acana and Orijen, uses the practice. Vague recollection of lentils and their color comes to mind. Others use rice, white and brown, to do the same. Somewhere, I seem to recall seeing alfalfa, whole and meal? It's a common practice that consumers need to be aware of. It doesn't necessarily make a food bad. It does show us a company needs to be watched as they are leaning towards being deceptive. I'll have to look again at Wellness, I think they passed the test for the toy senior but, boy, did I look at a lot of foods in a short amount of time! I finally bought a bag just to give myself a break from it all! LOL

The water in chicken is discussed at dogfoodadvisor as well.

[MarkFromSea]

Originally Posted by thelittleyorkie

Is merricks or wellness good

I haven't researched Merricks. Which Wellness product are you looking at feeding? I researched the 3 available Wellness Toy Breed Complete Health products, puppy, adult and senior. All 3 of those are good.

[107barney]

Thanks for posting, YorkieMom1!

[MarkFromSea]

Here's the link to the related thread, additional discussion of RC feed in case you missed it: http://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/yor...requested.html

[Lilah Charm]

Originally Posted by MarkFromSea

That is concerning!

One, they didn't send what you ordered, the 28. I hope you were able to return it. I'd be pissed! I'd force the issue through my credit card company if they did not comply fully! They did not send what you ordered, period!

Two, she threw it up, you won't be able to use what they sent you unless somehow she grows accustomed to it. Personally, I just wouldn't do it. Get a full refund or resort to your credit card company to force the issue. I strongly dislike unacceptable business practices. You were deceived by the retailer.

Gucci is doing well with his new food, it's for a senior though and sounds like it wouldn't apply to your pup.

Thanks, yeah I was a little pissy. In this instance though I am the retailer ordering from a wholesale distributor. The item lookup code and description and ingredients list and picture was definitely for rc 28 and I was sorely dissapointed and called immediately when my order came in. They took them all back without complaint and the one she threw up on I attached an official return to Manufacturer referencing the manufacturing code and how she got sick- I mean not one bit of that was digested! It could just be her- like I said we had an elevated liver enzyme count on our blood panel recently- but she has no history of being a puker and I wouldn't want to take any chances and not report it- especially with manufacturing and ingredient changes and of course the fact that there was no way she could eat that bag. I am bummed though- I was dancing with delight at her response to rc. And you're right, no senior for her. Try try again I suppose! Thanks mark

[mimimomo]

It's all about cost, lowering it in this case...chicken by products are cheaper than chicken muscle meat. Chicken by product also lacks the digestibility compared to chicken muscle meat...thus the inclusion of a lot of brewers rice, for added fiber to move things along...it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure that out!

Yes, by-products are eaten by dogs & cats that eat raw food, but these are high quality fresh proteins, packed w/the essential amino acids. Easily digestible & high in protein which were preferably grass fed animals w/no antibiotics.

The ones that goes into dog & cat food are full of feces, maggots, the 4D meats which are rendered: dead, diseased, dying, disabled & euthanized animals. That is the BIG issue behind the scenes of these pet food giants.

I personally do not feed chicken, the inhumane conditions they are kept in, the link to cancer that the FDA covered up for years...yes, chicken causes cancer!

[107barney]

Originally Posted by mimimomo

It's all about cost, lowering it in this case...chicken by products are cheaper than chicken muscle meat. Chicken by product also lacks the digestibility compared to chicken muscle meat...thus the inclusion of a lot of brewers rice, for added fiber to move things along...it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure that out!

Yes, by-products are eaten by dogs & cats that eat raw food, but these are high quality fresh proteins, packed w/the essential amino acids. Easily digestible & high in protein which were preferably grass fed animals w/no antibiotics.

The ones that goes into dog & cat food are full of feces, maggots, the 4D meats which are rendered: dead, diseased, dying, disabled & euthanized animals. That is the BIG issue behind the scenes of these pet food giants.

I personally do not feed chicken, the inhumane conditions they are kept in, the link to cancer that the FDA covered up for years...yes, chicken causes cancer!

Raw companies lower costs too... They've got profits too. Bone is quite cheap.
Personally, I've fed chicken for 14 years. My dogs have aged beautifully.
There's too much fear mongering going on here lately and it clouds the issue. Not everyone wants to feed raw patties and from what I've seen, raw fed dogs are no healthier than other dogs.

[MarkFromSea]

Originally Posted by Lilah Charm

Thanks, yeah I was a little pissy. In this instance though I am the retailer ordering from a wholesale distributor. The item lookup code and description and ingredients list and picture was definitely for rc 28 and I was sorely dissapointed and called immediately when my order came in. They took them all back without complaint and the one she threw up on I attached an official return to Manufacturer referencing the manufacturing code and how she got sick- I mean not one bit of that was digested! It could just be her- like I said we had an elevated liver enzyme count on our blood panel recently- but she has no history of being a puker and I wouldn't want to take any chances and not report it- especially with manufacturing and ingredient changes and of course the fact that there was no way she could eat that bag. I am bummed though- I was dancing with delight at her response to rc. And you're right, no senior for her. Try try again I suppose! Thanks mark

You're welcome! Interesting the wholesaler hadn't updated whatever they needed to update in order to make it clear while ordering. Very glad it worked out.

Other than the corn present in RC, a Wellness product may be close, per someone else's comment in the other thread.

I just had a silly thought, LOL, whichever replacement formula you choose, maybe pouring a little liquid from a can of corn or even creamed corn on it would make her believe she was eating RC... LOL sorry about that, just a little humor, might work though.. IDK never tried.

[Nancy1999]

It is true that products that contain fresh chicken instead of chicken meal could have less actual protein in them because water is the main ingredient of fresh chicken; that's why it's important to know more than just a rule or two about choosing a good food. However, this has nothing to do with Royal Canin ingredients switch, as they have been using chicken meal since 2010. The new product they still uses "meal", but it’s chicken by-product meal, read how the government differentiates between the two.
Chicken By-Product Meal -“Poultry By-Product Meal consists of the ground, rendered, clean parts of the carcass of slaughtered poultry, such as necks, feet, undeveloped eggs, and intestines, exclusive of feathers, except in such amounts as might occur unavoidably in good processing practices.”
“Poultry Meal is the dry rendered product from a combination of clean flesh and skin with or without accompanying bone, derived from the parts of whole carcasses of poultry or a combination thereof, exclusive of feathers, heads, feet, and entrails.”
Basically, there is little or no muscle meat in the chicken meal by-product. I’m not saying that no by-product ever should be in a food, it may have something that is valuable, I’m saying that this shouldn’t be the main source of protein, and certainly not a food that is priced at a premium.

As consumers, we must understand that not all protein is alike. Here's a great article on protein, for those interested. The Dog Food Project - Is too much protein harmful?


The label must state how much “crude protein” is in the food, but consumers must be aware of the fact that crude protein is not the same as “digestible protein.” Shoe leather, hair and feathers are protein, but very little usable protein can be used from them. For years, it was thought that too high a protein was bad for dogs, but later, it was learned, this wasn’t true, it was only true if poor quality protein were being used.

Judy, I know you are a very loyal consumer and want to believe what they are saying, I also know that your dogs have thrived for years on Royal Canin, and you trust the company, believe me, I know how hard it is to have the table kicked out from beneath you. I’m not like one of those people who hate all big companies, but you know as well as I do, companies change, they change management, they change direction, and what was once a stellar product goes by the wayside. They said, “Absolutely NOTHING has changed about the nutritional profile of the food.” Have you asked them what was the old protein content of the food? On the old bags that say Royal Canin 28, on the side panel it said crude protein was 28% The new bags say, 26%. Right there, is a difference in the nutritional profile. While I wouldn’t choose one food over another because of a 2% difference in protein, the fact is he lied when he said nothing has changed. When you can see that, you will be more open to all the other BS they are spouting off.

[Britster]

Originally Posted by mimimomo

It's all about cost, lowering it in this case...chicken by products are cheaper than chicken muscle meat. Chicken by product also lacks the digestibility compared to chicken muscle meat...thus the inclusion of a lot of brewers rice, for added fiber to move things along...it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure that out!

Yes, by-products are eaten by dogs & cats that eat raw food, but these are high quality fresh proteins, packed w/the essential amino acids. Easily digestible & high in protein which were preferably grass fed animals w/no antibiotics.

The ones that goes into dog & cat food are full of feces, maggots, the 4D meats which are rendered: dead, diseased, dying, disabled & euthanized animals. That is the BIG issue behind the scenes of these pet food giants.

I personally do not feed chicken, the inhumane conditions they are kept in, the link to cancer that the FDA covered up for years...yes, chicken causes cancer!

Originally Posted by Nancy1999

It is true that products that contain fresh chicken instead of chicken meal could have less actual protein in them because water is the main ingredient of fresh chicken; that's why it's important to know more than just a rule or two about choosing a good food. However, this has nothing to do with Royal Canin ingredients switch, as they have been using chicken meal since 2010. The new product they still uses "meal", but it’s chicken by-product meal, read how the government differentiates between the two.
Chicken By-Product Meal -“Poultry By-Product Meal consists of the ground, rendered, clean parts of the carcass of slaughtered poultry, such as necks, feet, undeveloped eggs, and intestines, exclusive of feathers, except in such amounts as might occur unavoidably in good processing practices.”
“Poultry Meal is the dry rendered product from a combination of clean flesh and skin with or without accompanying bone, derived from the parts of whole carcasses of poultry or a combination thereof, exclusive of feathers, heads, feet, and entrails.”
Basically, there is little or no muscle meat in the chicken meal by-product. I’m not saying that no by-product ever should be in a food, it may have something that is valuable, I’m saying that this shouldn’t be the main source of protein, and certainly not a food that is priced at a premium.

As consumers, we must understand that not all protein is alike. Here's a great article on protein, for those interested. The Dog Food Project - Is too much protein harmful?


The label must state how much “crude protein” is in the food, but consumers must be aware of the fact that crude protein is not the same as “digestible protein.” Shoe leather, hair and feathers are protein, but very little usable protein can be used from them. For years, it was thought that too high a protein was bad for dogs, but later, it was learned, this wasn’t true, it was only true if poor quality protein were being used.

Judy, I know you are a very loyal consumer and want to believe what they are saying, I also know that your dogs have thrived for years on Royal Canin, and you trust the company, believe me, I know how hard it is to have the table kicked out from beneath you. I’m not like one of those people who hate all big companies, but you know as well as I do, companies change, they change management, they change direction, and what was once a stellar product goes by the wayside. They said, “Absolutely NOTHING has changed about the nutritional profile of the food.” Have you asked them what was the old protein content of the food? On the old bags that say Royal Canin 28, on the side panel it said crude protein was 28% The new bags say, 26%. Right there, is a difference in the nutritional profile. While I wouldn’t choose one food over another because of a 2% difference in protein, the fact is he lied when he said nothing has changed. When you can see that, you will be more open to all the other BS they are spouting off.

[Opium88]

RC is the only dry kibble my Izzy (and Marley) would ever get excited about. Didn't matter how good and fresh the ingredients were. Or how expensive it was for all that freshness... they wouldnt eat but a tiny bit. then they would start fixating on getting into the cat food. Now that I'm back to feeding them RC I can leave the cat food out with in reach and they don't even bother to look at it. Although my cats refuse to stay out of the dogs food. They love it , too. Brats, lol

[Nancy1999]

Originally Posted by Opium88

RC is the only dry kibble my Izzy (and Marley) would ever get excited about. Didn't matter how good and fresh the ingredients were. Or how expensive it was for all that freshness... they wouldnt eat but a tiny bit. then they would start fixating on getting into the cat food. Now that I'm back to feeding them RC I can leave the cat food out with in reach and they don't even bother to look at it. Although my cats refuse to stay out of the dogs food. They love it , too. Brats, lol

This is the reason I settled on RC too, he turned up his nose at all the 5 star foods. It wasn't my favorite food, but it was a good solid food Joey would eat. Now that the ingredients have changed, you might want to consider another food. I can tell you that in the last 6 years, dog foods have changed quite a bit and there are some companies that have learned to make a tasty nutritious product.

[Yorkiemom1]

Or you may want to just consider waiting to see if there is any adverse effects with the "new" formula RC....changes to watch for would be coats will get oiley, smelly, or pups may have gastric upset, or they may just not go to it with the enthusiasm they did before. That is what I am going to do. With the changes made in the formula, there is not going to be damage to internal organs...dogs have eaten MUCH less healthy dogfood, with all the worries of quality control, for their entire lives, with no issues and done just fine! You will notice deconditioning issues first, if any changes made in the RC are going to affect your pup. If you see any issues or adverse effects, then jump into the quandry of switching around all the dog food brands, all the confusion, all the expense, all the issues changing dog food has on your pup, because it will have become necessary for the health of your pup. Otherwise, I personally am going to stick with what has worked for me all these years.....even with the changes on that ingredients list, I do not expect any problems...if it aint broke, dont fix it....but if there are changes in my dogs, I will change immediately!

[Nancy1999]

Originally Posted by Yorkiemom1

Or you may want to just consider waiting to see if there is any adverse effects with the "new" formula RC....changes to watch for would be coats will get oiley, smelly, or pups may have gastric upset, or they may just not go to it with the enthusiasm they did before. That is what I am going to do. With the changes made in the formula, there is not going to be damage to internal organs...dogs have eaten MUCH less healthy dogfood, with all the worries of quality control, for their entire lives, with no issues and done just fine! You will notice deconditioning issues first, if any changes made in the RC are going to affect your pup. If you see any issues or adverse effects, then jump into the quandry of switching around all the dog food brands, all the confusion, all the expense, all the issues changing dog food has on your pup, because it will have become necessary for the health of your pup. Otherwise, I personally am going to stick with what has worked for me all these years.....even with the changes on that ingredients list, I do not expect any problems...if it aint broke, dont fix it....but if there are changes in my dogs, I will change immediately!

Yes, and I would like to ask RC just that, "if it aint broke, dont fix it...." You probably won't see any visual signs, that's not the way things work, you have to go on a vastly inferior diet for months and even years and this is one of the reasons they do autopsies, to look at the internal organs and bones. My main point, is that it is now equivalent and even lesser than any food you can buy at the grocery store, why pay premium for lower quality ingredients?

[joannscpo]

Regarding the change to the RC, my baby, GiGi was raised on RC, she has always eaten it. Well now she just leaves it. In fact my other dog, who is on a vegiatarian diet, who loved to eat her food when I wasn't looking, has not touched it. They both leave it. In fact even my cat ignores it. GiGi has taken to eating the other dogs food. So now I need to figure out what to do. Change food, or hope that she will start eating it.