Interesting article about anesthesia

[Teegy]

I'm so sorry to hear that. My friend almost lost her yorkie during his neuter.

[ladyjane]

Originally Posted by Matthias

Have one of the top Vets in our area explain then how 2 yorkies died from NOT making it through surgery due to the anesthesia. I know because I asked the about the dangers of it. Small risk, huh?

Matthias

Yes, it is a small risk. I did not say it comes with NO risk. You are out of line imho with your thumbs down to my post that was totally accurate. I am sorry if you lost two yorkies, but I must say that lightening normally does not strike twice in the same place. If my vet lost two of mine I don't know that I could go back to her (and I believe her to be one of the best in my area); but it would not prevent me from vetting my pups properly and saving them from the agony of periodontal disease and the organ diseases that come with it.

[107barney]

Originally Posted by Matthias

Have one of the top Vets in our area explain then how 2 yorkies died from NOT making it through surgery due to the anesthesia. I know because I asked the about the dangers of it. Small risk, huh?

=========================================



And you completely missed the point of me pointed out the article, that people shouldn't feel completely safe because regardless of how "Certified" or how "established" their protocols nor how "specialized" the specialist is, this diminishes NOTHING about the inherent dangers of putting a yorkie through anesthesia and what the possible results could be. So YOU are the one skewing facts because a dead yorkie is a dead yorkie and giving false hope or impression that it's safe as it is.... like I said, doesn't diminish anything that yorkies die under anesthesia and this has to be weighed out in making a final decision. And who the heck are you Blarney, arrogant pos to make judgments about my decisions? My yorkie the one you referenced with your BS reply is 14 years old and I changed his lifestyle so his problems wouldn't affect him in his later years and here he is hanging in there. So my yorkie hasn't forgone needed procedures because of my fear. Just because a yorkie has something wrong with it, talking to a vet intellectually to weigh out the pros and cons and what's to be expected isn't foregoing any procedure if it's weighed properly. Is it always like you to cry when someone has a different point of view than you? You want to make more BS replies to me? Bring it and you will definitely hear more.


Matthias

I get your point. You'd rather live in fear than take care of your dogs. I totally get it. I'm done with you so if you have more to say please direct it to someone else.

[107barney]

Originally Posted by Matthias

Thanks for the reply kjc,

I had written a reply to you above as an edit shortly after I finished, then none of it was saved as there's a wrong protocol of no more edits after 5 minutes, so my reply to you never got put there. Hence I now have to do another post and am now not in a mood to write as much...

Anyway, I would bet everything I own that I would be in the upper 5% bracket of owners who asked many questions to their vets prior to making a big decision, like surgery. I asked every conceivable question I could think of. I went in there with a w-r-i-t-t-e-n list of questions. I referenced magazines, books, forums, videos, a pay-for-advice online vet service, other vets and other yorkie owners. I went in well prepared. I did spend approx. $200 in blood work and tests as well.

Thank you for your advice as I feel the more you know about the vet and their experience, etc, the better it is to know if that's the vet you want working on your yorkie or if it's better to go elsewhere.

May your babies always be well, and live a long healthy and happy life!

Matthias

So you ask all the questions then you opt out. Lol.

[Teegy]

Someone needs to leash some of you with your approach. I clearly see Matthias has true cause for concern here Your insulting tone and remarks when questioning her reasoning are incredibly out of line. As for lightning rarely striking twice, I believe there is more than enough supporting documentation in her posts to show that it certainly does happen and you all need to show a level of respect to other members when they post. It always seems to be the same people. I enjoy reading great posts and following everyone's experiences, concerns and advice, and that's just it everyone has different experiences and just cos it's written in something that you see as a bible doesn't mean that's how it should be.
Please stop with the harsh and most definitely condescending manner in which you treat people. I feel new members reading these posts may be fearful of asking for valid and vital information for concern about being pounced on

[107barney]

Originally Posted by Teegy

Someone needs to leash some of you with your approach. I clearly see Matthias has true cause for concern here Your insulting tone and remarks when questioning her reasoning are incredibly out of line. As for lightning rarely striking twice, I believe there is more than enough supporting documentation in her posts to show that it certainly does happen and you all need to show a level of respect to other members when they post. It always seems to be the same people. I enjoy reading great posts and following everyone's experiences, concerns and advice, and that's just it everyone has different experiences and just cos it's written in something that you see as a bible doesn't mean that's how it should be.
Please stop with the harsh and most definitely condescending manner in which you treat people. I feel new members reading these posts may be fearful of asking for valid and vital information for concern about being pounced on

She's not a new member. And you're not a moderator.

[ladyjane]

Originally Posted by Teegy

Someone needs to leash some of you with your approach. I clearly see Matthias has true cause for concern here Your insulting tone and remarks when questioning her reasoning are incredibly out of line. As for lightning rarely striking twice, I believe there is more than enough supporting documentation in her posts to show that it certainly does happen and you all need to show a level of respect to other members when they post. It always seems to be the same people. I enjoy reading great posts and following everyone's experiences, concerns and advice, and that's just it everyone has different experiences and just cos it's written in something that you see as a bible doesn't mean that's how it should be.
Please stop with the harsh and most definitely condescending manner in which you treat people. I feel new members reading these posts may be fearful of asking for valid and vital information for concern about being pounced on

Uh hello? I said that because I meant it....IF my vet lost two of my pups I would be highly suspect.

As to your comments about my posting style, I won't dignify them with a response. You are not a moderator and certainly not someone who is going to tell any one else how to post.

As for the last line of yours: I fear that people will read some of the fear mongering about anesthesia and heartworm prevention (among other things) and neglect their pups who depend on them to care for them. I have seen first hand the results of such neglect.

[megansmomma]

Originally Posted by Teegy

I'm so sorry to hear that. My friend almost lost her yorkie during his neuter.

Id like more information about your friend's dog and what happened during the procedure. Anesthesia should be administered at different levels for different procedure. A neuter is not as invasive as a liver shut and so the dog will not be put as deeply under anesthesia and the reversals should be very quick. Was there a drug reaction, was an IV in place, what type of gas was used, did she opt for blood work, was there some underlying cause? I fine it hard to believe that having a neuter preformed on a healthy dog would cause an issue without an underlying and unknown condition.

[ladyjane]

To a person who has lost a pet during a surgical procedure, the risks will seem higher than they really are. I understand that....it is horrible to lose a beloved pet.

The fact remains that losing a pup due to anesthesia is very low.

From the following link:

01 Is Anesthesia Safe? - VeterinaryPartner.com - a VIN company!)

Modern anesthesia is very safe. The risk of a pet dying under anesthesia is less than 1%. The rare patients that are lost under anesthesia are generally emergency surgeries, when the patient's condition is extremely critical. The risk of a pet dying under anesthesia while undergoing a routine spay, neuter, dental or mass removal is extremely low, but this risk can be affected by the anesthetic drugs used and the monitoring of the patient.

Of note; IMHO I believe the monitoring of the patient is the numero uno issue. Some vets may shortcut on this and that can be dangerous. One person should be in charge of monitoring a patient the entire time to check heart rate, blood pressure, temperature, oxygen levels and well being.

[107barney]

When my dog recently had to have a procedure the doctor told me that the risk of death from anesthesia was less than one-tenth of 1%.

[chachi]

There is risk to anesthesia but there is also certainty that if you dont get dentals your dogs going to have heart or some other organ problems so you have to weigh the options. I worry about my dogs when they are under but i would never forgo a needed procedure because of it. There are risks to alot of things in life but you cant live in fear and not go about life normally

[kjc]

I almost lost my first Yorkie to anesthesia. I was also in the surgical suite with the vet and surgery tech when it happened. I was a newbie tech at the time and was there only to observe. The vet explained that because she's a terrier, they fight when they're going under, and basically she was over medicated, then it finally hit her and she started going into heart failure. They had to bring her level up quickly and stabilized her before continuing with her surgery. She was being put under very gradually, and the reversal drugs were right there, so I believe they were prepared for this type of reaction.

This same reaction occurred when my step daughter had her feeding tube placed. It was her first operation, first time being sedated, and as she has severe Cerebral Palsy, I could not explain to her what was going to happen. The second time she was put under, she understood when I told her the doc was going to put her to sleep to change her feeding tube, bc she did remember the first experience. Just thought this a strange coincidence..

[megansmomma]

Originally Posted by kjc

I almost lost my first Yorkie to anesthesia. I was also in the surgical suite with the vet and surgery tech when it happened. I was a newbie tech at the time and was there only to observe. The vet explained that because she's a terrier, they fight when they're going under, and basically she was over medicated, then it finally hit her and she started going into heart failure. They had to bring her level up quickly and stabilized her before continuing with her surgery. She was being put under very gradually, and the reversal drugs were right there, so I believe they were prepared for this type of reaction.

This same reaction occurred when my step daughter had her feeding tube placed. It was her first operation, first time being sedated, and as she has severe Cerebral Palsy, I could not explain to her what was going to happen. The second time she was put under, she understood when I told her the doc was going to put her to sleep to change her feeding tube, bc she did remember the first experience. Just thought this a strange coincidence..

Sedate and then intubate.......there should really be no issues with intubation.


As for your daughter's situation I can speak from my experiences working with many different types of disabilities pre-surgery and they always premeditated the PT in OR holding. As long as the PT does not need to give surgical consent (as is the case for your stepdaughter I'm assuming) there should be no issues in offering a sedative early on while waiting for her procedure. My suggestion for in the future should your stepdaughter need another procedure is that you could speak to the anesthesiologist as soon you arrive or convey your concerns to the attending nurse. They're very willing to offer whatever is necessary to help alleviate undo stress preoperatively. I've even worked with several surgeons that order Xanax as a standing order prior to surgery. This is in addition to other pre-surgical drugs. Surgery is can be very frightening so the anesthesiologist like to avoid undo stress prior to even entering the OR Suite.

[107barney]

My dogs are given premedications before they undergo anesthesia. Again this is the reason for the article so people know what a gold standard protocol is and can ask their vets what the deal is. Consumers have choices and vet med is no different. I wouldn't let a vet touch my dog who didn't do a protocol the way Tufts does it. I don't think that vets should use archaic drugs or methods and I don't think consumers should patronize those that do. I fear anesthesia on some level as does everyone but it's a needed tool so I try to remind myself of the facts and real statistics and put it into perspective.

[kjc]

Originally Posted by megansmomma

Sedate and then intubate.......there should really be no issues with intubation.

The dog was already intubated and on the table, hooked up to the monitors etc. The vet was just ready to cut when the tech caught the problem.


As for your daughter's situation I can speak from my experiences working with many different types of disabilities pre-surgery and they always premeditated the PT in OR holding. As long as the PT does not need to give surgical consent (as is the case for your daughter I'm assuming) there should be no issues in offering a sedative early on while waiting for her procedure. My suggestion for in the future should your daughter need another procedure is that you could speak to the anesthesiologist as soon you arrive or convey your concerns to the attending nurse. Their very willing to offer whatever is necessary to help alleviate undo stress preoperatively. I've even worked with several surgeons that order Xanax as a standing order prior to surgery. This is in addition to other pre-surgical drugs. Surgery is can be very frightening so the anesthesiologist like to avoid undo stress prior to even entering the OR Suite.

The problem with my DD was more communication, fear of the unknown. Now that she has a reference, I can remind her of the experience and I can tell if she's understanding or not. As she did remember the first time, she was so much more relaxed. I don't know exactly what they gave her or if she required anything extra. I will ask about it the next time... Thanks.