Question about Primal
 

I emailed them, but wanted to know if anyone else knew...
I'm feeding Princess & Momo Duck frozen & Mimi & Turbo freeze dried Lamb. I noticed that lamb has Lamb Hearts, Lamb Livers as the 1st 2 ingredients in both frozen & freeze dried. Duck has Duck, Duck Neck, Duck wings for the 1st 3 ingredients... so where's the Lamb?:confused:

Just looked at the ingredients too. You're asking, specifically, where the 'flesh meat' is...? I'm thinking either they don't include it, or, they're getting a small amount of flesh meat along w/ those ground lamb bones. That's my guess anyway. I wouldn't worry too much bc the liver and heart would be very nutrient rich, and the heart would provide muscle meat...both liver/heart would include tissue.

Yes...I know Primal is nutritionally balanced, but the nerdy side of me wants to know how & why.:p Duck version also has livers & hearts so was wondering why the lamb doesn't have the fleshy meat of lamb. They have not gotten back to me yet bc of the weekend maybe, so will post their response just in case anyone else wants to know.

Mimi & Turbo will not eat the frozen version, they sniff it, suspiciously slowly puts it in their mouf & spits it out! Of course, Momo is there to pick it up loll. They're LOVING the freeze dried, I reconstitute it in water & while it's being moistened, they twirl, wail whine, stand on their hind legs...beg dancing.:D

I have been using Natures Variety freeze dried raw for about a month now. Was using the Stella and Chewy's as a topper. So I am mixing weruva with the NV kibble/raw bites and Lexi is gobbling it up most of the time. I am liking it and it seems she is too. I think it is pretty good food too.

I would be interested to know too! We tried the lamb in the sample pack, but I haven't purchased a big bag yet. We just picked up Turkey and Sardine today. Sachi has done great on the frozen raw formulas, been wanting to try the freeze dried some day. Never thought I would be a raw feeder, but Sachi struggled on kibble from Blue Buffalo, Royal Canin, Wellness, Acana and Orijen. Once we started on the raw, no eating problems at all.

How awesome is that, yay!!!! Congrats on finding the right solution for your kiddo.

Have not heard back from them yet, thinking of dropping them another email...I know there's many misconceptions about raw food in general, so thought I'd post this blog by Dr Dodds. It was very easy for me to understand & comprehend (is that the same thing?:p). She explains HPP (high pressure processing) perfectly. Primal & Nature's Variety uses HPP, while Stella & Chewy's uses HHP (hydrostatic high pressure).

Part 1: Dr. Jean Dodds' Pet Health Resource Blog | Raw versus Cooked Foods: Perhaps the Most Controversial Current Topic in the Pet World (Part I)
Part 2: Dr. Jean Dodds' Pet Health Resource Blog | Raw versus cooked foods: What is HPP and why does it matter? (Part II)

:thumbup: We've tried all the brands you mentioned & my guys LOVED it!

:thumbup:
Freeze dried is great for use when traveling too!

Oh gosh, today is Sunday...IDW I thought it was Monday & was hoping for their email in my inbox.:p
I looked up Primal freeze dried on dogfoodadvisor & the Lamb & Chicken are 4 stars...wonders why. Not that I go by the ratings...

I wonder if it's because the protein % is lower. You know how DFA is about protein levels. From what I've read on that site, they've also starting taking into consideration things like protein coming from peas and stuff like that and lowered some ratings of other foods or specific formulas in certain lines (Fromm's grain-free comes to mind as one they dropped the score on). Oh well...we use a lot of "3 and 4 star" rated foods anyway :)

Now I am reading myself confused...apparently HPP & Sodium Selenite in Primal is controversial!:confused::(:confused:

Yes! I read that heart meat is muscle meat, so they have same amino acid profiles as reg fleshy/ muscle meat. But still confused!:D

I was just looking at the NV Instinct freeze-dried just to compare and the line is rated 4 stars except for the beef (5 stars) which is also higher in protein/fat. Just something interesting...I'm sure you could post and ask DFA to elaborate on the distinction between the Primal formulas.

And I think most if not all freeze-dried foods have the sodium selenite in them. I need to do more research on that ingredient...I've noticed that a lot of people mention it being an undesirable addition but I'm not too familiar with it. Almost every commercial food has something funky in it, huh? I try not to micro-analyze too much...I figure that incorporating a variety of high quality freeze-dried or canned food with good kibble (despite some controversial ingredients) into my pup's diet is still better than just feeding dog chow...it can give you a headache sometimes though!

Thank you Ann for the info.
I'm sure that answer is somewhere below that review, but I've been reading the past few hrs & my butt is getting tired! Will dig a little later tonight.;)

I feed locally raised lamb often. The lamb heart is the most nutritious and affordable cut, apart from lamb organs. Lamb breast is slightly more expensive, but in no way should you think that feeding lamb heart is questionable. It's excellent.

Thank you for your valuable insight! I wasn't questioning the use of hearts...I was wondering why the Lamb (& Beef) formulas don't have the fleshy meat part of Lamb...like that iconic commercial 'where's the beef?!':D I don't have a problem w/it nor am I complaining, I just want to know why.

I thought primal and natures variety was dehydrated?

They actually have a line of frozen raw & freeze dried raw products...no dehydrated products.

Primal's response
 

Hi Jenny, thanks for your email. There may be some confusion based on labeling requirements set by state departments of agriculture in the United States. The first ingredient listed as duck, for example, in our duck formula is followed by duck necks. Our main source of muscle meat in our duck formula is neck meat. However, the first ingredient listing is required by the state departments of agriculture to be used as a "catch all" ingredient. If, for example, we were unable to secure duck necks, we would be allowed to use duck breast. The catch-all ingredient allows us to do so.


We've secured a healthy relationship with our lamb vendors to ensure we won't need to substitute another muscle part for these diets. Thus, we don't need to put a "catch all" ingredient as our first ingredient. The muscle meat in our lamb formula specifically is heart meat. The heart is striated muscle tissue. The heart carries the greatest volume of blood through the body, which makes the heart the most nutrient-rich muscle in the body and is why Primal utilizes this as a source of muscle meat in our formulas.


We've written a blog entry on our website on this exact topic:
http://blog.primalpetfoods.com/post/19313616133/muscle-meat-vs-organ-meat


I hope this helps. Let me know if you have any additional questions.

Regards,

Kyle Frautnick
Marketing Director
Primal Pet Foods

t: 415.642.7400 | toll free: 866.566.4652
f: 415.642.7404 | w: primalpetfoods.com
e: kyle@primalpetfoods.com

I totally get it now.:) (happy camper) I kept having tunnel vision when it came to hearts, thinking it = organs. Now I understand (by reading the blog Kyle linked) that it is not considered an organ meat...like Ann & tem_sat was saying. But it didn't click in my mind...til now.

That's actually really interesting. Thanks for posting!

Thank you for sharing this information!

So Natures Variety has the HPP processing right? As does the primal?

NV and Primal both use the HPP. If Primal's website is up to date, they state that only the varieties containing poultry utilize the HPP but the red meat ones do not. Stella & Chewy's also uses the HPP.

Oh ok. I was actually looking at it for one of my cats. I need to get him to put on some weight. They eat Natures Variety Instinct. And I started giving him wet Avo.

Thanks for sharing the info.

I have to ask . . are you finding feeding the primal you a having better teeth results because of the bones in it?

Also the food is very high in protein. Does the protein drop when you rehydrate or is that the number? I can not remember

:thumbup: Thank you for this answer, I wasn't aware...I thought all Primal products were HPP'ed. I'm not too concerned about the controversy behind it since I'm not a hard core raw feeder. I actually like the fact that the bacteria is killed off. I understand the risk of re-contamination, so must practice safe handling procedures.

Here's a list of what is HPP'ed & what's not: Primal Pet Foods: Knowledgebase

The bones in Primal is very finely ground. Primal Pet Foods: Knowledgebase

I have noticed that when they eat premade raw food, less tartar build up. When they were eating soft canned food, plaque magnets!
As w/all foods that have moisture in it, it must be converted to dry matter basis to get the true amount of protein, fat, fiber, etc. So yes, it is higher in protein, fat & everything else. What I understand, is that they use the fat for energy, they burn it off. This would be an excellent food for cats bc they require more protein & it has moisture, which they lack when eating kibble. If you have a picky kitty, you should deg give this a try!:thumbup:

I'm not an expert by any means, so I hope someone w/more knowledge can answer your questions better. I've been feeding premade raw (not exclusively) for about a year, maybe longer. We've tried many other different brands but we keep coming back to Primal. I also feed other foods for every meal, they seem to like the variety, esp my picky girl Mimi. All 4 do great on it & their blood test comes back WNL. I always check their poopies & it's always tiny & firm.:D

Sachi has been on raw since she was about 6 months old. Her teeth look fine, but not sure at this age (1 year) if they start to build up plaque already?

Sachi is active, so although it is higher in fat, she hasn't gained any weight because of it. The last 2 months or so, she has been consistently about 4.4 lbs. She only gets raw, no kibble, no canned food. She gets treats when we train her, but we keep 1 to 2 ingredients and as natural as possible. No Beggin' Strips or those types lol. Oh and she has to have her carrots everyday too.

Mid-December she got some teeth removed and her blood work results came out normal. So far, she is doing good on it.

I always thought dogs that ate raw had "nicer" teeth because they were getting whole bones to chew on which scraped stuff like plaque off their teeth...I don't know how much research is behind that though. So I wouldn't think that the ground bones would have the same effect necessarily. Maybe since this food does not have a very high amount of carbohydrates and is higher in protein, it helps prevent build up and tooth decay from occurring.

And although the protein listed is higher on the packaging, it will "drop" when you rehydrate it. But it is still a higher amount of protein than is found in kibbles when you convert it to a dry matter basis, like Jenny said.

This is from ziwipeak, but it explains the higher fat content in raw food:

Frequently Asked Questions - ZiwiPeak focus on what?s really important
What’s the fat content?

Fat in ZiwiPeak is as naturally occurs in the meat of the source species. The percentage may look high because of the low moisture in air-dried ZiwiPeak. But on an as-fed basis our veterinary experts advise that the levels are as best for cats and dogs.
We, as people, tend to be wary of fat (certainly too much fat), but it’s an essential source of energy for your animal. It also supplies essential fatty acids which play important roles in metabolism, cell membranes and skin permeability in pets. Cats and dogs don’t get heart attacks from fat around the arteries. They need roughly the percentage we provide to function properly and energetically. Without it, they lack energy and don’t burn calories. The perfect daily diet for dogs and cats is rich in proteins and fats sourced from raw meat and organs balanced with vitamins and minerals. It must be low in carbohydrates as they’re not easily digested. It’s a description of ZiwiPeak!

I LOVE Primal!
 

I had emailed Kyle back & asked if they're going to make any more different formulas of the freeze dried (preferably Rabbit & Pheasant):D & asked him about sodium selenite...if he could explain the safety & long term use of this controversial ingredient.

Here's his response:

We're looking to expand our freeze-dried offerings in 2014. I don't have any specific dates or exact formulas we'll be adding, but we will have more to offer later this year.


As for Sodium Selenite, it's actually the mineral Selenium, which you can see listed on our website now and has been updated on all of our packaging. It comes down to semantics. We use a natural form of Selenium derived from an ancient mineral deposit in Utah that was labeled as Sodium Selenite to comply with AAFCO and State Departments of Agriculture guidelines. We had an ongoing conversation with State Departments of Agriculture that now allows us to label as the actual mineral Selenium. You will see new bags reflecting the correct ingredient name soon. We can assure you that Primal researches all of our ingredients to insure the safety and nutritional adequacy for your pets.

Regards,

Kyle Frautnick
Marketing Director
Primal Pet Foods

t: 415.642.7400 | toll free: 866.566.4652
f: 415.642.7404 | w: primalpetfoods.com
e: kyle@primalpetfoods.com