help, my 9 year old is losing hair getting skin tags, brown spots and is very nervous - Page 2 - YorkieTalk.com Forums

Maximo · 01-14-2012, 01:09 PM

Vets are like human doctors -- not every doctor is good for all things. I had a good internist who completely missed my severe thyroid problem. It took a trauma surgeon to diagnose me, and then I was off to the endocrinologist.

There is a YT member here whose girl had her problems diagnosed by a dermatologist.

I believe a specialist or a vet with more experience with yorkies will help you get to the bottom of your girl's problems.

Patti · 01-14-2012, 03:00 PM

My pom, Maya had Cushing's. She was about 9 when symptoms first started. It took about 6 months to get her diagnosed. The vet (won't see him anymore) first tested her for Thyroid disorder when I took her in with excessive hunger and thirst. She lost hair on both sides of her body and her tail. She had these dark oily spots that I could peel off and they would be raw underneath. She scratched a lot and urinated more too. After no relief from thyroid medicine I took her to a dermatologist. They did am ACTH Stim test and an ultrasound and she was diagnosed with Cushing's. I would get her to a dermatologist or an internal medicine vet. I hope you can get her some help

lillymae · 01-14-2012, 09:24 PM

It is not uncommon for cush pups to also have thyroid problems. Also I recommend the FULL thyroid panel whenever checking the thyroid as the thyroid is a tricky little bugger & parts of the test can be normal while others are not, so you can't get a true picture without a FULL panel.

robintz · 01-15-2012, 05:51 AM

Well, except that your Reese is a Yorkie, you just described my Lucky who passed away two months ago. He was a Bichon, but you nailed everything. He never stopped licking his feet, got very overweight and ate and drank nonstop, had crystals in his urine and had to be operated on for bladder stones 3x (don't ask!), and had those bumpy things all over his back (that the vet did end up removing). Oh, yeah. Constant yeasty ear infections.

A few possibilities: you may be dealing with several different issues.
Lucky saw an allergist for many years because he had severe allergies. That was what caused the ear infections (probably) and the feet licking, as well as constant scratching deep enough to draw blood and cause infections. I had to give him allergy shots every 3 weeks.

Lucky DID have Cushings Disease but lived for many years after being diagnosed with it. He took medication for it and I had to bring him in for blood work twice a year (in the beginning it was more frequent) but he did well and ended up dying from cancer, not the Cushings. I would very much recommend you do more testing, because your dog sounds like he has Cushings based on your description of his symptoms and if it's not that, you want to know what it is.

When Lucky was diagnosed with bladder stones we were also told to stop feeding him carrots because something in them contributes. We were actually told to not feed him anything but his prescription food at all. He was on an S/O (urinary) food from the vet. No treats, no nothing. I did buy both wet and dry so he could have the wet food for treats!

When he got really old and sick we started giving him snacks again just because we knew he was dying and figured, what the heck, let him enjoy his last weeks! But otherwise, he was on a very restricted diet.

Good luck....I felt like I spent years trying to figure out what was wrong with him. I'm hoping Louie (our newly adopted Yorkie) doesn't have quite as many health issues, but right now he has almost no hair on his body, lots of those little black bumpy itchy things and he does chew on his feet. He's 8 years old and I'm debating whether to see the allergist or not. Sigh.

Wylie's Mom · 01-15-2012, 08:20 AM

My Wylie has Cushings....very complicated disease and many general vets don't test for it correctly, nor treat it correctly - so keep that in mind.

As I started reading your description, Cushings popped right into my mind. From what you said about the tests, I don't see that they truly tested for Cushings.

If Cushings is ever suspected in a dog, the first thing to do is Cortisol-Creatinine Ratio Urine Test. The test does not *confirm* Cushings. It can tell you whether you should test further for Cushings....the reason they use this test first is bc it's cheaper than going straight to ACTH testing. I would def get this urine test.

From there, if the test showed concern - you'd do an ACTH test, and usually they do an ulstrasound the same day, to look at the adrenals.

It's a very complicated disease, both to understand and to treat...but take it from me, it can be done. Testing and treatment titering can take a long time, so be prepared if that happens. The U of Tenn can help if they think the ACTH points to Atypical Cushings -- U of Tenn is really the only place that can properly diagnose Atypicals.

This is my fave Cushings Overview link, it helped me a lot: Cushings (read the symptom list, some may apply to your kiddo, but not all)

Hang in there!

momofreese · 01-15-2012, 09:29 AM

Thank you all for so many respones. I just placed a call to the head vet and will ask him all of the specific questions and get copies of her tests. In the last article that I just read (thanks for posting it) said that bladder stones is also a symptom. I don't understand how the vet then isn't more convinced she has cushings if that is what they told me they found in her urine. I am so confused and will wait to speak with the main vet and then ask for her records and take her to a specialist. I am beginning to believe that most drs are only as good as one's health is. Again, very negative sounding,but all these years when I didn't have problems I thought my vets were fantastic.

I appreciate all of your information. I am now weening reese off of ziwi peak to her reduced food that I have in the house, natural balance. Is that okay or should I get another type? I will check the fat and protein content again. She used to be on that and did well, it is the reduced formula. If not I will go out today and purchase something else.

I coat looks even worse today, and I am even beginning to think I am nuts. I know my husband feels I am, and the vets office certainly does. I checked Reeses ears which thankfully seem clear, that only took about six or eight months to clear. REoccuring yeast type ear infections. Another symptom, yet the vet still isn't putting two and two together.

To the last poster.. sorry I am on a new page, why won't your vet seem your baby anymore, or was that your choice? Do you suggest I go to a dermotologist or a different type of specialist? I am going to ask my vet, but at this point I am unsure if I want to remain with them since I am sure they think I am overreacting.

Like I had said, her frequent urination stopped but now I am more worried that she is having trouble due to the crystals they said were in her urine. Now I worry about a blockage, although she by no means seems to be straining or in any pain. She is obviously hungry constantly but this is NOTHING new for Reese she was born hungry. For nine years all it seemed she lives for is eathing. .sounds like me. She isn't drinking excessively but her hair loss is bad, she looks frail, but that might be my imagination. She has lost over 2 1/2 pounds over the past year, since we had her on a very strict diet.

I feel horrible because we fed her a lot of carrots. which she started disliking, since that was her only snack until I introduced string beans, and pepper. Now I feel guilty since I read in that article that carrots were not good for her.

The only thing I am now giving her is a little chicken or turkey in her food. Is that okay? Especially turkey, is that safe for her? It definitely helps her sleep better, but worried that it might not be safe for her. Please help and thanks all again. Will keep you posted on outcome with vet and then specialists.

Hope all have a great day! If you are on the east coast as I am, try to stay warm!

momofreese · 01-15-2012, 11:55 AM

Robintz, what medication was your bichon put on for cushings and were there many side affects? Sorry to hear about your recent loss. I hope you are doing better. Was the cancer related to the cushings? Right now I am so confused about all of Reese's diagnosis and just surprised they are letting me sit here doing nothing for three weeks. That is very uncomfortable for me since I am a doer and not a watcher! I must admit she was diagnosed with Legg perthes when she was 7 months old and was told to take her to a specilist.. they wanted to operate immediately which I didn't do and went to several others for opinions. After sending her xrays to a vet at Cornell, I was told that legg perthes diagnosis was inconclusive and leave her alone until gd forbid she becomes lame. Almost nine years later, and she has thankfully never had a problem. I suppose that definitely contraticts my "doer" story and shows how sometimes you really do have to wait.. $6000 later and the pain that Reese would have had to go through, for NOTHING.

Thanks for all of the responses and your lucky certainly does sound like Reese. Hopefully I will know more tomorrow and am still going to proceed without any snacks/vegetables and ween her off of the ziwipeak.

robintz · 01-15-2012, 12:59 PM

Lucky was on lysodrine (spelling?) for years and it worked wonderfully for him. At his last appointment, though (and by the way, he had a regular vet, an allergy vet, and then the specialist for his Cushings- I think his specialty was internal medicine) the Cushings vet told me that lysodrine was "old school" and that they now were using something else but since Lucky had done so well on the Lysodrine they were not going to change his medication. But at that point he was their ONLY patient still taking it. And I can't remember what the name of the medication was that they were now prescribing. I'm sorry!

I honestly don't remember many side effects. If I forgot to give him his pill I'd notice him drinking more water, but that was my fault.

His regular vet diagnosed the cancer and she did not think it was related to the cushings....just an unfortunate thing. Poor Lucky had so many medical issues all his life....it seems some dogs are just healthier than others (or not). Good luck with your Reese. I still miss Lucky but we're happy to have Louie around....Lucky was NOT a cuddler and Louie never wants to be anywhere but my lap. Quite a different dog.

zowiandnikasmom · 01-17-2012, 06:56 AM

hello, i'm sorry to hear that you're having so many problems with reese. this is going to be long but i hope it really helps. what you're describing really does sound so familiar.... my almost 11 year old yorkie zowi has cushing's. she was diagnosed in june of 2011 but she starting getting a huge belly, incredible appetite, and panting in june 2010. she also started have the age spots pop up all over her. my vet called them lipomas and also said they should not be removed. hundreds of dollars later, everything looked fine... complete senior workup including bloodwork, urinalysis, ekg for her heart, xrays to rule out tumors and stones, etc. etc. our regular seen vet (of 12 years) had moved back to the sister hospital we originally found her at but it's an hour away so we continued to use the same hospital closer to home we were going to and saw a different dr.... january 2011 came around and still same problems, but wanted to have a dental on her if we could as i noticed a loose tooth in front. we took her back to our trusted vet of 12 years an hour away for this. all pre op testing once again came back perfect and her dental went very welll thankfully but she did have to have the one loose tooth pulled.

fast forward to spring of 2011... zowi would run up to me and get my attention and pee right in front of me inside. we are talking about a completely housebroke dog so i took her in the next day. she was found to have a uti, which is also another clue of cushing's. her water intake increased dramatically, peeing constantly. that's when cushing's was 1st mentioned based on her appearance with a large abdomin and her symptoms. an ultrasound was then performed to rule out tumors or stones anywhere. zowi's liver was extremely enlarged (but not diseased), another clue of cushing's. nothing else of concern was observed on ultrasound. the best test to do first is a urine creatine ratio test. it is inexpensive and can rule cushing's out, but it cannot confirm a diagnosis. zowi's dr explained that we needed to have an "endocrine panel to tennessee" to see if zowi had typical or atypical cushing's. typical cushing's can be diagnosed by an acth stimulation test or low dose dex test (ldds) but if zowi was atypical (elevated intermediate steroids rather than elevated cortisol) the test would come back normal but she could still have cushing's. all of my girl's testing looked normal too, but indeed she did have cushing's. university of tennessee is the only place in the country that can test for atypicals. if reese was my dog, i would request this test to u of tenn be done immediately as the results from tenn take up to 2 weeks to receive. the plus of this is it evaluates 5 different hormones and the experts will give their recommendation on treatment. they are fantastic working with your vet and for no additional charge. your vet would be consulting with THE EXPERTS on this disease by communicating with u of tenn over the phone. the vet would draw a baseline blood sample, then inject a cortisone, then wait 2 hours and draw another blood sample. both samples are evaluated by the experts in tennessee and a diagnosis is made. the ldds test is good also as it can determine if the cushing's is adrenal or pituitary dependant but this test takes 8 hours and 3 or 4 blood draws. my girl was diagnosed as pituitary dependant via ultrasound of her adrenal glands, which were both clearly visualized and enlarged. most small dogs with cushing's 85% of the time have the pituitary kind, 15% have adrenal tumors. the adrenal tumor type sometimes does have the option of surgery but it is very high risk and in the range of $5,000-8,000 in my area (near chicago) if surgery isn't an option, it can be managed medically also. pituitary type can only be treated medically.

initially, my girl was treated with melatonin and hmr lignans for about 4 months. she got a skin infection during that time on her head, another uti, constantly panting, constantly drinking, constant licking the air, the floors and everything she could get her tongue on. she was also hospitalized with pancreatitis in september 2011 which can be caused by uncontrolled cushing's. her cholesterol and triglycerides were through the roof. she changed her to a very low fat high quality protein diet. we did another endocrine panel to tenn and decided to move on to the next treatment as this plan did not seem to help and some things were getting worse. at this time she was also diagnosed with hypothyroidism via a full thyroid panel i believe was sent to university of michigan. so my girl truly has both conditions. she takes l-thyroxine every 12 hours for her thyroid and gets it rechecked every 6 months.

at this point it was october 2011... results came in from tennessee and we decided to keep her on melatonin and hmr lignans but also to start her on trilostane. this is the newer medication that robintz was referring to. lysodren is still a better option for atypicals and is more predictable as it has been used for 30 years or so. trilostane was just approved in the usa for use in 2009 but has been used in the uk much longer and is not as predictable as lysodren but many vets believe it is "safer" than lysodren. but both meds have their pros and cons and are considered quite toxic. that being said it is extremely important that you have a vet who really knows about these meds or you will definitely need an internal medicine specialist to get the proper dosage without adverse side effects of overdosage. i was scared to death starting my girl on trilostane, but now i'm so glad i did.

we've had a rollercoaster of adjusting zowi's dosage and for now, we beleive that we are at the correct maintenance. my girl has her energy back and is NOT PANTING, appetite is better, thirst is less, she is once again feeling great! her belly has gone down and she is so much more comfortable and happy. i can tell you it has been no picnic getting to where we are today and the expense can really be great but totally worth everything to have my girl back to herself. this required a lot of at home monitoring and a fantastic vet! at my vet the endocrine panel to tennessee was $185 the first time we had it done (june 2010), and has gone up to $255 the last time we had it done (december 2011). once maintenance is acheived, testing can be reduced to 2 times a year.

the hardest thing is not knowing what is wrong but knowing something is. i had to go through that for a year before i got the answer and it was so hard!!! zowi's dad thought i was crazy too, but did agree with the panting not being right. we had just lost our other yorkie at only 6 years old and he thought i was being overprotective or had lost my mind from the loss, being so worried about zowi. but i'm sure you know reese better than he and are correct about something being wrong here. i was right too!!!

please keep us updated and if you have any specific ?'s feel free to pm me. i'm glad that wylie's mom has responded, as she was there for me when my girl was diagnosed and helped me find a wealth of info. patti and lillymae and others also helped by sharing their experiences. i will refer you to the yahoo group canine cushing's autoimmune care also as the info there is great and so many helpful experienced people will respond to your ?'s.

wishing you the best of luck with reese! i really hope she can feel better asap! ~ carrie

zowiandnikasmom · 01-17-2012, 07:11 AM

CanineCushings-AutoimmuneCare : Cushing's Syndrome | Autoimmune Disease

this is a link to the ccac site where you can find endless info!

momofreese · 01-18-2012, 10:48 AM

Again, thank you all for your concern and advice. I spoke with the lead vet and he said that I should continue to wait the two weeks to recheck her urine to see if the crystals have resolved themselves. I have Reese off of everything but her food. He did tell me to change from ziwipeak, the freeze dried raw food that she has been on for the past year or so. He told me to go with ANY regular food, not to even put her back on a vet or any reduced formula food. As I said she has been battling weight issues all of her nine years.. excessive appetite since she was 9 1/2 weeks old. She is finally down to about 9.6 to 9.8 and he feels that if I monitor her intake she can be on a regular food. Now he threw out the basic names and wouldn't commit to any brand. If she does have thyroid problems (who even knows) possible cushings, possible bladder stones, a weight problem, why wouldn't he commit to a high grade low fat diet instead of throwing the basic (what I considered to be low grade company foods at me) Even my husband heard this conversation and can't believe he wouldn't tell me to put her on a good food. His only statement was that if it says natural or holistic it is BAD.. ugh, all I can say is I am totally confused. I looked at the top food list that someone was nice enough to prepare as a sticky on here and still am confused. At this point I would like to wean her off to a good food that isn't fattening and won't make her health issues any worse. I do feel she has allergies too, since she constantly licks her paws.. it seems to only be at bedtime or when she is on my bed, so I am wondering if all of these years she is allergic to something on my bed, detergent or such or has dust mites??

Help.. I need to take care of one thing at a time and would like to get her off of ziwipeak if all agree it is too high fat and protein. Please recommend a food and after that I believe I will have her urine rechecked at my vet in two weeks and then have him send the sample to University of Tenn or at least do an ACTH OR ACHT.. sorry.. They did a regular blood work up. He also said that Utenn would put her on melaton? and that is what he could do without the test.. why would he put her on something that he didn't confirm she needed? Help please, I am literally losing my mind plus I have my husband tellign me to just leave her alone and stop looking for trouble.

Thanks again and any new advice or additional help would be very much appreciated!

ladyjane · 01-18-2012, 11:39 AM

I have a foster who has been with me for some time now. He came to me from another foster home and vet who had misdiagnosed him with cushings. He really did look cushanoid, but his labs were normal and my vet suspected that it was not cushings. We did do the ACTH stim test, but also did skin biopsies and found that he had Alopecia X which is also known as Pseudo Cushings. Here is a thread about him and also before and after pics are throughout that thread.

He was put on Melatonin for his hair loss and it worked! He still has sort of thin hair, but his body is covered with hair. He takes it twice/day and we decided to keep him on it for the rest of his life. I had read somewhere that if the Melatonin works and the pup is then taken off of it and looses hair again, it may not work the next time. Best to leave it be!

http://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/yor...-yourself.html

Hope you get to the bottom of what is going on...not having a diagnosis for something is very frustrating.

Buster Brown · 01-18-2012, 11:44 AM

I was looking into issues I am noticing in Buster lately and came across this site. Canine Food Sensitivity Testing by by Dr. Jean Dodds Home

ladyjane · 01-18-2012, 11:57 AM

I just reviewed that thread about Sunny D and it is a bit confusing because he was with another foster and it was reported to me that he was improving. When he came to me, my vet was not convinced of the diagnosis...so that is when other testing was done as I mentioned above. That thread really tells nothing about that...but it is a good thread none the less because it shows that often what looks like something may not be. In his case the correct testing had not been done.
Here are some before and after pics of Sunny D....he does have hypothyroidism as well and is on meds for it; but the Melatonin is what made his hair return. It takes about 3 months to work.

sunnyd-beforeyt.jpg

sunnyweb1.jpg

sunnyd2.jpg

momofreese · 01-18-2012, 02:34 PM

Thanks so much. HE looks much better. Reese is at the beginning of hair loss. I almost feel that if I took pictures of her back for the site, people would agree with my husband that I am nuts, but my daughters (18, 22 and 26) do agree with me and see a change. It is just on her back. We started noticing red skin coming through and then it "balding" in small spots on her back, now it seems to be a line on her torso. A little by her eyelids and a little on the back of her head. Again, I don't think that anyone would really notice unless they have lived with reese. Her coat is definitely thinning and much dryer than it used to be. Now she appears to be perfectly normal. She is not drinking excessively, not urinating more than normal, and her appetite is CRAZY big as always. I am mixing the ziwipeak and natural balance reduced formala but now worried that I should leave her on ziwipeak until her next urine text, two weeks from now. I did, like I said, cut out all vegetables. The only thing I am still giving her is a little low salt turkey and a few cherios..

Any comments would be helpful. Thanks again. Just not sure if I should change her food now and totally confused about all of it. She still licks her front paws as she has for the past 9 years but thankfully isn't losing hair there.

01-14-2012, 01:09 PM	#16
Maximo ♥ Maximo and Teddy Donating Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 25,041	Vets are like human doctors -- not every doctor is good for all things. I had a good internist who completely missed my severe thyroid problem. It took a trauma surgeon to diagnose me, and then I was off to the endocrinologist. There is a YT member here whose girl had her problems diagnosed by a dermatologist. I believe a specialist or a vet with more experience with yorkies will help you get to the bottom of your girl's problems. __________________ Kristin, Max and Teddy

01-14-2012, 03:00 PM	#17
Patti Donating YT 30K Club Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Illinois Posts: 35,509 Blog Entries: 6	My pom, Maya had Cushing's. She was about 9 when symptoms first started. It took about 6 months to get her diagnosed. The vet (won't see him anymore) first tested her for Thyroid disorder when I took her in with excessive hunger and thirst. She lost hair on both sides of her body and her tail. She had these dark oily spots that I could peel off and they would be raw underneath. She scratched a lot and urinated more too. After no relief from thyroid medicine I took her to a dermatologist. They did am ACTH Stim test and an ultrasound and she was diagnosed with Cushing's. I would get her to a dermatologist or an internal medicine vet. I hope you can get her some help __________________ Cali Pixie Roxie : RIP Nikki; RIP Maya;RIP my sweet Dixie girl 1/17/08 http://callipuppyscastle.bravehost.com/index.html

01-15-2012, 08:20 AM	#20
Wylie's Mom Furbutts = LOVE Donating Member Moderator Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 35,889 Blog Entries: 2	My Wylie has Cushings....very complicated disease and many general vets don't test for it correctly, nor treat it correctly - so keep that in mind. As I started reading your description, Cushings popped right into my mind. From what you said about the tests, I don't see that they truly tested for Cushings. If Cushings is ever suspected in a dog, the first thing to do is Cortisol-Creatinine Ratio Urine Test. The test does not confirm Cushings. It can tell you whether you should test further for Cushings....the reason they use this test first is bc it's cheaper than going straight to ACTH testing. I would def get this urine test. From there, if the test showed concern - you'd do an ACTH test, and usually they do an ulstrasound the same day, to look at the adrenals. It's a very complicated disease, both to understand and to treat...but take it from me, it can be done. Testing and treatment titering can take a long time, so be prepared if that happens. The U of Tenn can help if they think the ACTH points to Atypical Cushings -- U of Tenn is really the only place that can properly diagnose Atypicals. This is my fave Cushings Overview link, it helped me a lot: Cushings (read the symptom list, some may apply to your kiddo, but not all) Hang in there! __________________ ~ A friend told me I was delusional. I nearly fell off my unicorn. ~ °¨¨¨°ºOº°¨¨¨° Ann \| Pfeiffer \| Marcel Verdel Purcell \| Wylie \| Artie °¨¨¨°ºOº°¨¨¨°

01-17-2012, 06:56 AM	#24
zowiandnikasmom YT 500 Club Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: illinois Posts: 902	hello, i'm sorry to hear that you're having so many problems with reese. this is going to be long but i hope it really helps. what you're describing really does sound so familiar.... my almost 11 year old yorkie zowi has cushing's. she was diagnosed in june of 2011 but she starting getting a huge belly, incredible appetite, and panting in june 2010. she also started have the age spots pop up all over her. my vet called them lipomas and also said they should not be removed. hundreds of dollars later, everything looked fine... complete senior workup including bloodwork, urinalysis, ekg for her heart, xrays to rule out tumors and stones, etc. etc. our regular seen vet (of 12 years) had moved back to the sister hospital we originally found her at but it's an hour away so we continued to use the same hospital closer to home we were going to and saw a different dr.... january 2011 came around and still same problems, but wanted to have a dental on her if we could as i noticed a loose tooth in front. we took her back to our trusted vet of 12 years an hour away for this. all pre op testing once again came back perfect and her dental went very welll thankfully but she did have to have the one loose tooth pulled. fast forward to spring of 2011... zowi would run up to me and get my attention and pee right in front of me inside. we are talking about a completely housebroke dog so i took her in the next day. she was found to have a uti, which is also another clue of cushing's. her water intake increased dramatically, peeing constantly. that's when cushing's was 1st mentioned based on her appearance with a large abdomin and her symptoms. an ultrasound was then performed to rule out tumors or stones anywhere. zowi's liver was extremely enlarged (but not diseased), another clue of cushing's. nothing else of concern was observed on ultrasound. the best test to do first is a urine creatine ratio test. it is inexpensive and can rule cushing's out, but it cannot confirm a diagnosis. zowi's dr explained that we needed to have an "endocrine panel to tennessee" to see if zowi had typical or atypical cushing's. typical cushing's can be diagnosed by an acth stimulation test or low dose dex test (ldds) but if zowi was atypical (elevated intermediate steroids rather than elevated cortisol) the test would come back normal but she could still have cushing's. all of my girl's testing looked normal too, but indeed she did have cushing's. university of tennessee is the only place in the country that can test for atypicals. if reese was my dog, i would request this test to u of tenn be done immediately as the results from tenn take up to 2 weeks to receive. the plus of this is it evaluates 5 different hormones and the experts will give their recommendation on treatment. they are fantastic working with your vet and for no additional charge. your vet would be consulting with THE EXPERTS on this disease by communicating with u of tenn over the phone. the vet would draw a baseline blood sample, then inject a cortisone, then wait 2 hours and draw another blood sample. both samples are evaluated by the experts in tennessee and a diagnosis is made. the ldds test is good also as it can determine if the cushing's is adrenal or pituitary dependant but this test takes 8 hours and 3 or 4 blood draws. my girl was diagnosed as pituitary dependant via ultrasound of her adrenal glands, which were both clearly visualized and enlarged. most small dogs with cushing's 85% of the time have the pituitary kind, 15% have adrenal tumors. the adrenal tumor type sometimes does have the option of surgery but it is very high risk and in the range of $5,000-8,000 in my area (near chicago) if surgery isn't an option, it can be managed medically also. pituitary type can only be treated medically. initially, my girl was treated with melatonin and hmr lignans for about 4 months. she got a skin infection during that time on her head, another uti, constantly panting, constantly drinking, constant licking the air, the floors and everything she could get her tongue on. she was also hospitalized with pancreatitis in september 2011 which can be caused by uncontrolled cushing's. her cholesterol and triglycerides were through the roof. she changed her to a very low fat high quality protein diet. we did another endocrine panel to tenn and decided to move on to the next treatment as this plan did not seem to help and some things were getting worse. at this time she was also diagnosed with hypothyroidism via a full thyroid panel i believe was sent to university of michigan. so my girl truly has both conditions. she takes l-thyroxine every 12 hours for her thyroid and gets it rechecked every 6 months. at this point it was october 2011... results came in from tennessee and we decided to keep her on melatonin and hmr lignans but also to start her on trilostane. this is the newer medication that robintz was referring to. lysodren is still a better option for atypicals and is more predictable as it has been used for 30 years or so. trilostane was just approved in the usa for use in 2009 but has been used in the uk much longer and is not as predictable as lysodren but many vets believe it is "safer" than lysodren. but both meds have their pros and cons and are considered quite toxic. that being said it is extremely important that you have a vet who really knows about these meds or you will definitely need an internal medicine specialist to get the proper dosage without adverse side effects of overdosage. i was scared to death starting my girl on trilostane, but now i'm so glad i did. we've had a rollercoaster of adjusting zowi's dosage and for now, we beleive that we are at the correct maintenance. my girl has her energy back and is NOT PANTING, appetite is better, thirst is less, she is once again feeling great! her belly has gone down and she is so much more comfortable and happy. i can tell you it has been no picnic getting to where we are today and the expense can really be great but totally worth everything to have my girl back to herself. this required a lot of at home monitoring and a fantastic vet! at my vet the endocrine panel to tennessee was $185 the first time we had it done (june 2010), and has gone up to $255 the last time we had it done (december 2011). once maintenance is acheived, testing can be reduced to 2 times a year. the hardest thing is not knowing what is wrong but knowing something is. i had to go through that for a year before i got the answer and it was so hard!!! zowi's dad thought i was crazy too, but did agree with the panting not being right. we had just lost our other yorkie at only 6 years old and he thought i was being overprotective or had lost my mind from the loss, being so worried about zowi. but i'm sure you know reese better than he and are correct about something being wrong here. i was right too!!! please keep us updated and if you have any specific ?'s feel free to pm me. i'm glad that wylie's mom has responded, as she was there for me when my girl was diagnosed and helped me find a wealth of info. patti and lillymae and others also helped by sharing their experiences. i will refer you to the yahoo group canine cushing's autoimmune care also as the info there is great and so many helpful experienced people will respond to your ?'s. wishing you the best of luck with reese! i really hope she can feel better asap! ~ carrie __________________ My Princess Zowi 1/21/01 My Precious Pixie 5/28/10 My Little Angel Nika 4/16/04-8/29/10 Last edited by zowiandnikasmom; 01-17-2012 at 06:59 AM.

01-17-2012, 07:11 AM	#25
zowiandnikasmom YT 500 Club Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: illinois Posts: 902	CanineCushings-AutoimmuneCare : Cushing's Syndrome \| Autoimmune Disease this is a link to the ccac site where you can find endless info! __________________ My Princess Zowi 1/21/01 My Precious Pixie 5/28/10 My Little Angel Nika 4/16/04-8/29/10

01-14-2012, 09:24 PM	#18
lillymae YT 3000 Club Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Idaho Posts: 4,544	It is not uncommon for cush pups to also have thyroid problems. Also I recommend the FULL thyroid panel whenever checking the thyroid as the thyroid is a tricky little bugger & parts of the test can be normal while others are not, so you can't get a true picture without a FULL panel.

01-15-2012, 05:51 AM	#19
robintz YorkieTalk Newbie! Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: Kirkland, WA Posts: 3	Well, except that your Reese is a Yorkie, you just described my Lucky who passed away two months ago. He was a Bichon, but you nailed everything. He never stopped licking his feet, got very overweight and ate and drank nonstop, had crystals in his urine and had to be operated on for bladder stones 3x (don't ask!), and had those bumpy things all over his back (that the vet did end up removing). Oh, yeah. Constant yeasty ear infections. A few possibilities: you may be dealing with several different issues. Lucky saw an allergist for many years because he had severe allergies. That was what caused the ear infections (probably) and the feet licking, as well as constant scratching deep enough to draw blood and cause infections. I had to give him allergy shots every 3 weeks. Lucky DID have Cushings Disease but lived for many years after being diagnosed with it. He took medication for it and I had to bring him in for blood work twice a year (in the beginning it was more frequent) but he did well and ended up dying from cancer, not the Cushings. I would very much recommend you do more testing, because your dog sounds like he has Cushings based on your description of his symptoms and if it's not that, you want to know what it is. When Lucky was diagnosed with bladder stones we were also told to stop feeding him carrots because something in them contributes. We were actually told to not feed him anything but his prescription food at all. He was on an S/O (urinary) food from the vet. No treats, no nothing. I did buy both wet and dry so he could have the wet food for treats! When he got really old and sick we started giving him snacks again just because we knew he was dying and figured, what the heck, let him enjoy his last weeks! But otherwise, he was on a very restricted diet. Good luck....I felt like I spent years trying to figure out what was wrong with him. I'm hoping Louie (our newly adopted Yorkie) doesn't have quite as many health issues, but right now he has almost no hair on his body, lots of those little black bumpy itchy things and he does chew on his feet. He's 8 years old and I'm debating whether to see the allergist or not. Sigh.

01-15-2012, 09:29 AM	#21
momofreese Senior Yorkie Talker Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Hewlett, New York Posts: 129	Thank you all for so many respones. I just placed a call to the head vet and will ask him all of the specific questions and get copies of her tests. In the last article that I just read (thanks for posting it) said that bladder stones is also a symptom. I don't understand how the vet then isn't more convinced she has cushings if that is what they told me they found in her urine. I am so confused and will wait to speak with the main vet and then ask for her records and take her to a specialist. I am beginning to believe that most drs are only as good as one's health is. Again, very negative sounding,but all these years when I didn't have problems I thought my vets were fantastic. I appreciate all of your information. I am now weening reese off of ziwi peak to her reduced food that I have in the house, natural balance. Is that okay or should I get another type? I will check the fat and protein content again. She used to be on that and did well, it is the reduced formula. If not I will go out today and purchase something else. I coat looks even worse today, and I am even beginning to think I am nuts. I know my husband feels I am, and the vets office certainly does. I checked Reeses ears which thankfully seem clear, that only took about six or eight months to clear. REoccuring yeast type ear infections. Another symptom, yet the vet still isn't putting two and two together. To the last poster.. sorry I am on a new page, why won't your vet seem your baby anymore, or was that your choice? Do you suggest I go to a dermotologist or a different type of specialist? I am going to ask my vet, but at this point I am unsure if I want to remain with them since I am sure they think I am overreacting. Like I had said, her frequent urination stopped but now I am more worried that she is having trouble due to the crystals they said were in her urine. Now I worry about a blockage, although she by no means seems to be straining or in any pain. She is obviously hungry constantly but this is NOTHING new for Reese she was born hungry. For nine years all it seemed she lives for is eathing. .sounds like me. She isn't drinking excessively but her hair loss is bad, she looks frail, but that might be my imagination. She has lost over 2 1/2 pounds over the past year, since we had her on a very strict diet. I feel horrible because we fed her a lot of carrots. which she started disliking, since that was her only snack until I introduced string beans, and pepper. Now I feel guilty since I read in that article that carrots were not good for her. The only thing I am now giving her is a little chicken or turkey in her food. Is that okay? Especially turkey, is that safe for her? It definitely helps her sleep better, but worried that it might not be safe for her. Please help and thanks all again. Will keep you posted on outcome with vet and then specialists. Hope all have a great day! If you are on the east coast as I am, try to stay warm!

01-15-2012, 11:55 AM	#22
momofreese Senior Yorkie Talker Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Hewlett, New York Posts: 129	Robintz, what medication was your bichon put on for cushings and were there many side affects? Sorry to hear about your recent loss. I hope you are doing better. Was the cancer related to the cushings? Right now I am so confused about all of Reese's diagnosis and just surprised they are letting me sit here doing nothing for three weeks. That is very uncomfortable for me since I am a doer and not a watcher! I must admit she was diagnosed with Legg perthes when she was 7 months old and was told to take her to a specilist.. they wanted to operate immediately which I didn't do and went to several others for opinions. After sending her xrays to a vet at Cornell, I was told that legg perthes diagnosis was inconclusive and leave her alone until gd forbid she becomes lame. Almost nine years later, and she has thankfully never had a problem. I suppose that definitely contraticts my "doer" story and shows how sometimes you really do have to wait.. $6000 later and the pain that Reese would have had to go through, for NOTHING. Thanks for all of the responses and your lucky certainly does sound like Reese. Hopefully I will know more tomorrow and am still going to proceed without any snacks/vegetables and ween her off of the ziwipeak.

01-15-2012, 12:59 PM	#23
robintz YorkieTalk Newbie! Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: Kirkland, WA Posts: 3	Lucky was on lysodrine (spelling?) for years and it worked wonderfully for him. At his last appointment, though (and by the way, he had a regular vet, an allergy vet, and then the specialist for his Cushings- I think his specialty was internal medicine) the Cushings vet told me that lysodrine was "old school" and that they now were using something else but since Lucky had done so well on the Lysodrine they were not going to change his medication. But at that point he was their ONLY patient still taking it. And I can't remember what the name of the medication was that they were now prescribing. I'm sorry! I honestly don't remember many side effects. If I forgot to give him his pill I'd notice him drinking more water, but that was my fault. His regular vet diagnosed the cancer and she did not think it was related to the cushings....just an unfortunate thing. Poor Lucky had so many medical issues all his life....it seems some dogs are just healthier than others (or not). Good luck with your Reese. I still miss Lucky but we're happy to have Louie around....Lucky was NOT a cuddler and Louie never wants to be anywhere but my lap. Quite a different dog.

01-18-2012, 10:48 AM	#26
momofreese Senior Yorkie Talker Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Hewlett, New York Posts: 129	Again, thank you all for your concern and advice. I spoke with the lead vet and he said that I should continue to wait the two weeks to recheck her urine to see if the crystals have resolved themselves. I have Reese off of everything but her food. He did tell me to change from ziwipeak, the freeze dried raw food that she has been on for the past year or so. He told me to go with ANY regular food, not to even put her back on a vet or any reduced formula food. As I said she has been battling weight issues all of her nine years.. excessive appetite since she was 9 1/2 weeks old. She is finally down to about 9.6 to 9.8 and he feels that if I monitor her intake she can be on a regular food. Now he threw out the basic names and wouldn't commit to any brand. If she does have thyroid problems (who even knows) possible cushings, possible bladder stones, a weight problem, why wouldn't he commit to a high grade low fat diet instead of throwing the basic (what I considered to be low grade company foods at me) Even my husband heard this conversation and can't believe he wouldn't tell me to put her on a good food. His only statement was that if it says natural or holistic it is BAD.. ugh, all I can say is I am totally confused. I looked at the top food list that someone was nice enough to prepare as a sticky on here and still am confused. At this point I would like to wean her off to a good food that isn't fattening and won't make her health issues any worse. I do feel she has allergies too, since she constantly licks her paws.. it seems to only be at bedtime or when she is on my bed, so I am wondering if all of these years she is allergic to something on my bed, detergent or such or has dust mites?? Help.. I need to take care of one thing at a time and would like to get her off of ziwipeak if all agree it is too high fat and protein. Please recommend a food and after that I believe I will have her urine rechecked at my vet in two weeks and then have him send the sample to University of Tenn or at least do an ACTH OR ACHT.. sorry.. They did a regular blood work up. He also said that Utenn would put her on melaton? and that is what he could do without the test.. why would he put her on something that he didn't confirm she needed? Help please, I am literally losing my mind plus I have my husband tellign me to just leave her alone and stop looking for trouble. Thanks again and any new advice or additional help would be very much appreciated!

01-18-2012, 11:39 AM	#27
ladyjane Resident Yorkie Nut Donating YT 20K Club Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Texas Posts: 27,451	I have a foster who has been with me for some time now. He came to me from another foster home and vet who had misdiagnosed him with cushings. He really did look cushanoid, but his labs were normal and my vet suspected that it was not cushings. We did do the ACTH stim test, but also did skin biopsies and found that he had Alopecia X which is also known as Pseudo Cushings. Here is a thread about him and also before and after pics are throughout that thread. He was put on Melatonin for his hair loss and it worked! He still has sort of thin hair, but his body is covered with hair. He takes it twice/day and we decided to keep him on it for the rest of his life. I had read somewhere that if the Melatonin works and the pup is then taken off of it and looses hair again, it may not work the next time. Best to leave it be! http://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/yor...-yourself.html Hope you get to the bottom of what is going on...not having a diagnosis for something is very frustrating. __________________ CLOUD NINE BEDS--YORKIE HAVEN RESCUE MY ETSY SHOP

01-18-2012, 11:44 AM	#28
Buster Brown Donating YT 1000 Club Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Toluca Lake, CA Posts: 5,491	I was looking into issues I am noticing in Buster lately and came across this site. Canine Food Sensitivity Testing by by Dr. Jean Dodds Home __________________ CarolynBuster Brown "The happiest people don't have the best of everything, they just make the best of everything."

01-18-2012, 11:57 AM	#29
ladyjane Resident Yorkie Nut Donating YT 20K Club Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Texas Posts: 27,451	I just reviewed that thread about Sunny D and it is a bit confusing because he was with another foster and it was reported to me that he was improving. When he came to me, my vet was not convinced of the diagnosis...so that is when other testing was done as I mentioned above. That thread really tells nothing about that...but it is a good thread none the less because it shows that often what looks like something may not be. In his case the correct testing had not been done. Here are some before and after pics of Sunny D....he does have hypothyroidism as well and is on meds for it; but the Melatonin is what made his hair return. It takes about 3 months to work. sunnyd-beforeyt.jpg sunnyweb1.jpg sunnyd2.jpg __________________ CLOUD NINE BEDS--YORKIE HAVEN RESCUE MY ETSY SHOP

01-18-2012, 02:34 PM	#30
momofreese Senior Yorkie Talker Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Hewlett, New York Posts: 129	Thanks so much. HE looks much better. Reese is at the beginning of hair loss. I almost feel that if I took pictures of her back for the site, people would agree with my husband that I am nuts, but my daughters (18, 22 and 26) do agree with me and see a change. It is just on her back. We started noticing red skin coming through and then it "balding" in small spots on her back, now it seems to be a line on her torso. A little by her eyelids and a little on the back of her head. Again, I don't think that anyone would really notice unless they have lived with reese. Her coat is definitely thinning and much dryer than it used to be. Now she appears to be perfectly normal. She is not drinking excessively, not urinating more than normal, and her appetite is CRAZY big as always. I am mixing the ziwipeak and natural balance reduced formala but now worried that I should leave her on ziwipeak until her next urine text, two weeks from now. I did, like I said, cut out all vegetables. The only thing I am still giving her is a little low salt turkey and a few cherios.. Any comments would be helpful. Thanks again. Just not sure if I should change her food now and totally confused about all of it. She still licks her front paws as she has for the past 9 years but thankfully isn't losing hair there.