Liver Shunts? Possible cure without surgery? - Page 2 - YorkieTalk.com Forums

gemy · 12-19-2011, 07:05 PM

In terms of one Xray giving you any usable views of both liver and AAI - I don't think so. The liver is no where near the neck.

And you will need further diagnostic testing for the AAI - likely an MRI and a spinal tap. I paid $1500 three years ago for an MRI of the L/S area. Lumbo sacral area.

So it seems like a good idea to get that care credit card application in. Review your health guarantee your breeder gave you - both conditions are usually considered genetic, especially given your pup is only 6mths old.

I wish you all the best with your pup.

SugarPie · 12-19-2011, 07:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gemy

In terms of one Xray giving you any usable views of both liver and AAI - I don't think so. The liver is no where near the neck.

And you will need further diagnostic testing for the AAI - likely an MRI and a spinal tap. I paid $1500 three years ago for an MRI of the L/S area. Lumbo sacral area.

So it seems like a good idea to get that care credit card application in. Review your health guarantee your breeder gave you - both conditions are usually considered genetic, especially given your pup is only 6mths old.

I wish you all the best with your pup.

Oh, I just thought they would do the x-ray of the whole body, he's just so small so I figured.

Also, I haven't addressed this yet but I didn't get my pup from a breeder. He came from an Amish market here in Ohio. They don't breed them, they said, just sell them. Don't know where he came from. For all I know, he was from a puppy mill before they put him out but I figured I was rescuing him from that place.

bchgirl · 12-19-2011, 07:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SugarPie

Oh, I just thought they would do the x-ray of the whole body, he's just so small so I figured.

Also, I haven't addressed this yet but I didn't get my pup from a breeder. He came from an Amish market here in Ohio. They don't breed them, they said, just sell them. Don't know where he came from. For all I know, he was from a puppy mill before they put him out but I figured I was rescuing him from that place.

...

kjc · 12-20-2011, 10:47 PM

Checking in for an update... praying everything went well today....

bodisat · 12-21-2011, 04:35 AM

im new to the forum, but just wanted to wish you the best. seems like you got a bunch of good info here. hopefully you will get some better news.
as far as the puppy mill thing? who knows, but I see two red flags. all that does not matter now, just getting your baby well. best wishes...

kjc · 12-24-2011, 03:34 AM

Just checking in for an update... hope all went well.

SugarPie · 12-25-2011, 10:35 AM

Sorry that it took me so long to get back to you guys! Didn't mean to keep you worried. We ended up having to move the appointment two times. Both due to double booking and being so busy. We were finally able to get him in early yesterday.

The vet ended up agreeing that shunts is what it probably is. When I brought up the AAI or any other possible problems, he said it's not likely from what he's seen of him. He said it would cost $61 to do a bile acid test but wants to wait until he is a bit older and a bit bigger because he seems to be very fragile right now. He said chances are I can keep him on the diet and Lactulose forever and opt out of surgery. He said his daughter had a Yorkie mix that they suspected shunts because all the signs fit but once they had testing it turned out not to be and that her dog has just had weird symptoms that never turn out to be anything usually and this could be Cricket's case as well. He also mentioned a cat he's been seeing for 5 years that has shunts and hasn't had the surgery, just the diet. We decided to go ahead and keep him on the diet and medicine until he gets the bile acid done and then go from there.

My vet knows that Cricket came from an Amish seller and also agreed, chances are he came from a puppy mill. When I was looking for funding earlier this week for surgery, someone I spoke to, when they asked where we got him from, said most likely puppy mill as well. So I am wondering if all the shock he seems to have, may be because of that. Perhaps he was handled very roughly, even abused. My theory comes from the fact that sometimes, a family member will brush by him and barely touch him and he starts yelping out in pain like he was startled. I am wondering if they may be what had happened Sunday night. My son DID slam a door right before I saw Cricket run in to the room yelping and I thought about it, Cricket wasn't in the door if it got slammed and I am almost positive he didn't jump from the couch and land wrong. If Crick had been close by, it could have scared him when he heard the loud noise and sent him into a state of shock like I've seen him have that one time at the vet.

Do any of you have any experience with puppy mill rescue dogs? If so, what are some things you see as far as post traumatic stress or signs of abuse?

Thank you all for your concern, advice, and prayers. I hope you're all having a merry Christmas!

lvtyorkie · 12-27-2011, 01:05 PM

So sorry you are going thru all of this. I recommend you research Liver Shunt on the net. There is a lot of good information and also some good support groups that can help with medicine and diet. It is important you limit the amount of animal protein your puppy gets. Dog treats can have high levels be careful with them also. The better educated you are the better your judgements will be for your puppy. My yorkie has Liver Shunt and we opted to get the surgery, but medical management with medication and diet will help...even while you figure out what is best for your dog. The best support group I have found for Liver Shunt is on yahoo. They can help you tremendously. I would get the Bile Acid test done if at all possible. Good Luck!

kjc · 12-27-2011, 01:30 PM

Hi. Has there been any change in his symptoms since he's been on the Lactulose? If no change, then I would inside on getting him xrayed, at least.

I just looked at your album.... is that a flea collar he has on in the 3rd pic?

SugarPie · 12-27-2011, 04:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kjc

Hi. Has there been any change in his symptoms since he's been on the Lactulose? If no change, then I would inside on getting him xrayed, at least.

I just looked at your album.... is that a flea collar he has on in the 3rd pic?

I am going to private message you but no he doesn't have a flea collar on. We use Advantage.

yorkieusa · 12-27-2011, 05:52 PM

I'm so sorry you and your little one are going through this. I'm attaching a link for you. If you go down the page a little, then you will see the info.

Alex's Yorkie Care Frequently Asked Questions. Page 3.

Perrella · 12-27-2011, 06:27 PM

I'm so sorry your baby is going through this. Sending well wishes to your little one.

Zhoie is 4 wks post AAI surgery and so far doing well. It's 12 weeks of confined recouperation and I pray she is much better after all my girl has went through.

I do know with Zhoie, if you suddenly moved your hand over her like you were going to touch around her neck, she would tense and lower down. I too, thought she was just timid and would shake from being scared or she was just a mellow girl...not the case at all. But, I know know it was for self-perservation, she was protecting her neck.

I pray your baby does not have AAI. If you have any questions, I would be happy to answer anything I can, as we are going through it now, just PM me anytime.

sunnboy · 12-28-2011, 12:16 PM

Hi there. I'm new to this site and would like to respond to your situation. I have a 10 year old yorkie that was diagnosed with a liver shunt at 2 yrs old. His is the internal shunt which unfortunatly is not operable. They call it Micor Vascular Dysplacia. I'm sorry to say that the only way to know what kind of shunt your pup has is to get the proper testing. We are very fortunate that when they tested him with an ultasound that they discovered he had one liver lobe of normal size and one that was shrivled. We were told to be cautionly opptimistic and they prescribed Pottasium Bromide, Vitamine E and Hills Prescrition Diet Ld forumla. He is still with us a very happy and energetic dog which unfortunaly just was diagnoised with Addisons Disease. We have spent thousands to keep him healthy and its not an easy thing to do. Fortunately my husband can support us so my job pays for my animals. Did you get a written health guareentee for your pup. Most reputable breeders will support you emotionally and financially. Try and see what your breeder can do for you. See if your vet will take payments. Unfortunately the only soultion is testing and probably surgery. Your only putting a band-aid on the problem and your pup is suffering.

lillymae · 01-01-2012, 10:00 AM

I would find a vet who is familiar with the conditions of yorkies as the symptoms you have described can be any number of things. Some are AAI, Chiari & Liver shunt. Also 1 thing that concerns me is the ear scratching is a symptom of Chiari. Did your vet check your pups ears for infection or foreign object such as mites or plant material ? if yes & nothing was found then I would lean more towards AAI or Chiari.

12-19-2011, 07:05 PM	#16
gemy YT 2000 Club Donating Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Huntsville,Ont,Canaada Posts: 12,340 Blog Entries: 2	In terms of one Xray giving you any usable views of both liver and AAI - I don't think so. The liver is no where near the neck. And you will need further diagnostic testing for the AAI - likely an MRI and a spinal tap. I paid $1500 three years ago for an MRI of the L/S area. Lumbo sacral area. So it seems like a good idea to get that care credit card application in. Review your health guarantee your breeder gave you - both conditions are usually considered genetic, especially given your pup is only 6mths old. I wish you all the best with your pup. __________________ Razzle and Dara. Our clan. RIP Karma Dec 24th 2004-July 14 2013 RIP Zoey Jun9 th 2008-May 12 2012. RIP Magic,Mar 26 2006July 1st 2018 Last edited by gemy; 12-19-2011 at 07:06 PM.

12-20-2011, 10:47 PM	#19
kjc I♥PeekTinkySaph&Finny Donating Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: Baltimore, Maryland Posts: 18,872	Checking in for an update... praying everything went well today.... __________________ Kat Chloe Lizzy PeekABooTinkerbell SapphireInfinity

12-24-2011, 03:34 AM	#21
kjc I♥PeekTinkySaph&Finny Donating Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: Baltimore, Maryland Posts: 18,872	Just checking in for an update... hope all went well. __________________ Kat Chloe Lizzy PeekABooTinkerbell SapphireInfinity

12-27-2011, 01:05 PM	#23
lvtyorkie Senior Yorkie Talker Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Post Falls, Idaho Posts: 80	Liver Shunt So sorry you are going thru all of this. I recommend you research Liver Shunt on the net. There is a lot of good information and also some good support groups that can help with medicine and diet. It is important you limit the amount of animal protein your puppy gets. Dog treats can have high levels be careful with them also. The better educated you are the better your judgements will be for your puppy. My yorkie has Liver Shunt and we opted to get the surgery, but medical management with medication and diet will help...even while you figure out what is best for your dog. The best support group I have found for Liver Shunt is on yahoo. They can help you tremendously. I would get the Bile Acid test done if at all possible. Good Luck!

12-27-2011, 01:30 PM	#24
kjc I♥PeekTinkySaph&Finny Donating Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: Baltimore, Maryland Posts: 18,872	Hi. Has there been any change in his symptoms since he's been on the Lactulose? If no change, then I would inside on getting him xrayed, at least. I just looked at your album.... is that a flea collar he has on in the 3rd pic? __________________ Kat Chloe Lizzy PeekABooTinkerbell SapphireInfinity

12-21-2011, 04:35 AM	#20
bodisat No Longer a Member Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: louisianna Posts: 99	im new to the forum, but just wanted to wish you the best. seems like you got a bunch of good info here. hopefully you will get some better news. as far as the puppy mill thing? who knows, but I see two red flags. all that does not matter now, just getting your baby well. best wishes...

12-25-2011, 10:35 AM	#22
SugarPie YorkieTalk Newbie! Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: Ohio Posts: 7	Sorry that it took me so long to get back to you guys! Didn't mean to keep you worried. We ended up having to move the appointment two times. Both due to double booking and being so busy. We were finally able to get him in early yesterday. The vet ended up agreeing that shunts is what it probably is. When I brought up the AAI or any other possible problems, he said it's not likely from what he's seen of him. He said it would cost $61 to do a bile acid test but wants to wait until he is a bit older and a bit bigger because he seems to be very fragile right now. He said chances are I can keep him on the diet and Lactulose forever and opt out of surgery. He said his daughter had a Yorkie mix that they suspected shunts because all the signs fit but once they had testing it turned out not to be and that her dog has just had weird symptoms that never turn out to be anything usually and this could be Cricket's case as well. He also mentioned a cat he's been seeing for 5 years that has shunts and hasn't had the surgery, just the diet. We decided to go ahead and keep him on the diet and medicine until he gets the bile acid done and then go from there. My vet knows that Cricket came from an Amish seller and also agreed, chances are he came from a puppy mill. When I was looking for funding earlier this week for surgery, someone I spoke to, when they asked where we got him from, said most likely puppy mill as well. So I am wondering if all the shock he seems to have, may be because of that. Perhaps he was handled very roughly, even abused. My theory comes from the fact that sometimes, a family member will brush by him and barely touch him and he starts yelping out in pain like he was startled. I am wondering if they may be what had happened Sunday night. My son DID slam a door right before I saw Cricket run in to the room yelping and I thought about it, Cricket wasn't in the door if it got slammed and I am almost positive he didn't jump from the couch and land wrong. If Crick had been close by, it could have scared him when he heard the loud noise and sent him into a state of shock like I've seen him have that one time at the vet. Do any of you have any experience with puppy mill rescue dogs? If so, what are some things you see as far as post traumatic stress or signs of abuse? Thank you all for your concern, advice, and prayers. I hope you're all having a merry Christmas!

12-27-2011, 05:52 PM	#26
yorkieusa Crazy about Kacee! Donating Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: Kansas Posts: 21,173	I'm so sorry you and your little one are going through this. I'm attaching a link for you. If you go down the page a little, then you will see the info. Alex's Yorkie Care Frequently Asked Questions. Page 3. __________________ Karen Kacee Muffin 1991-2005 Rest in Peace My Little Angel

12-27-2011, 06:27 PM	#27
Perrella Donating YT 5000 Club Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: VA Posts: 8,040	I'm so sorry your baby is going through this. Sending well wishes to your little one. Zhoie is 4 wks post AAI surgery and so far doing well. It's 12 weeks of confined recouperation and I pray she is much better after all my girl has went through. I do know with Zhoie, if you suddenly moved your hand over her like you were going to touch around her neck, she would tense and lower down. I too, thought she was just timid and would shake from being scared or she was just a mellow girl...not the case at all. But, I know know it was for self-perservation, she was protecting her neck. I pray your baby does not have AAI. If you have any questions, I would be happy to answer anything I can, as we are going through it now, just PM me anytime. __________________ Tena & Zhoie Sweet Little Miracle

12-28-2011, 12:16 PM	#28
sunnboy YorkieTalk Newbie! Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: Chemainus, Briitsh Columbia Canada Posts: 1	Hi there. I'm new to this site and would like to respond to your situation. I have a 10 year old yorkie that was diagnosed with a liver shunt at 2 yrs old. His is the internal shunt which unfortunatly is not operable. They call it Micor Vascular Dysplacia. I'm sorry to say that the only way to know what kind of shunt your pup has is to get the proper testing. We are very fortunate that when they tested him with an ultasound that they discovered he had one liver lobe of normal size and one that was shrivled. We were told to be cautionly opptimistic and they prescribed Pottasium Bromide, Vitamine E and Hills Prescrition Diet Ld forumla. He is still with us a very happy and energetic dog which unfortunaly just was diagnoised with Addisons Disease. We have spent thousands to keep him healthy and its not an easy thing to do. Fortunately my husband can support us so my job pays for my animals. Did you get a written health guareentee for your pup. Most reputable breeders will support you emotionally and financially. Try and see what your breeder can do for you. See if your vet will take payments. Unfortunately the only soultion is testing and probably surgery. Your only putting a band-aid on the problem and your pup is suffering.

01-01-2012, 10:00 AM	#29
lillymae YT 3000 Club Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Idaho Posts: 4,544	I would find a vet who is familiar with the conditions of yorkies as the symptoms you have described can be any number of things. Some are AAI, Chiari & Liver shunt. Also 1 thing that concerns me is the ear scratching is a symptom of Chiari. Did your vet check your pups ears for infection or foreign object such as mites or plant material ? if yes & nothing was found then I would lean more towards AAI or Chiari.