Collapsing Trachea in Yorkie

[ladyjane]

Originally Posted by gidget529

Barbara - My Cricket (RIP) had CT. She passed last Nov at 13. The cough med is given bc it stops the gagging sensation pups w CT have. It becomes a spasm almost. The cough med stops the spasm of the trachea. The anxiety they feel is not only the terrifying sensation of not being able to breathe, it also comes physiologically as CO2 builds up in a body bc of the inadequate O2/CO2 exchange during these attacks. I am so sorry you are facing this. It is terrifying for the owner also to hear the lack of air exchange and be unable to help.

I don't know if you were told, but it is important to watch the gum color during and after these attacks. If the gums become bluish, you have a medical emergency that needs urgent attention. They are not getting enough O2 and need supplemental O2 provided by a vet's office.

[BarbaraM]

Originally Posted by gidget529

Barbara - My Cricket (RIP) had CT. She passed last Nov at 13. The cough med is given bc it stops the gagging sensation pups w CT have. It becomes a spasm almost. The cough med stops the spasm of the trachea. The anxiety they feel is not only the terrifying sensation of not being able to breathe, it also comes physiologically as CO2 builds up in a body bc of the inadequate O2/CO2 exchange during these attacks. I am so sorry you are facing this. It is terrifying for the owner also to hear the lack of air exchange and be unable to help.

I don't know if you were told, but it is important to watch the gum color during and after these attacks. If the gums become bluish, you have a medical emergency that needs urgent attention. They are not getting enough O2 and need supplemental O2 provided by a vet's office.

I am sorry you had a pet pass away because of this awful condition. My heart goes out to you.

I was not told to watch his gums, no. I am learning as I go along.

The label on the Hydromet: Give 4ml by mouth every 8 hours as needed to control cough.

As I said he did not cough. The noise he made was when breathing in. He began panting at the vet's office and it became progressively louder and faster. But the vet didn't do a thing but schedule a resection of his palate for the following Friday, I believe. And just let me leave her office.
No cough meds was given to him during this terrible episode that was his spiral downward during the night! No sedation. Nothing. Just the bill for blood work for heart worm.

I should share this information with that vet and let her know how serious CT can be for a pet. I don't believe she had a clue! Or she wouldn't have let Ted leave in that condition.

Thank you for the information. The most important issue with my dog was the inflammation of the trachea and how panicked he became at the hospital. They suggested I pick him up feeling he would calm once he was at home. And he DID! He was on ALL THE MEDS given to me for almost a week. He is still on the Theophylline. The cough med is as needed as it directs on the label. There is no more Pred. The sedative is also on a per need basis.

[ladyjane]

Originally Posted by BarbaraM

ladyjane -






I believe they DO know what they are talking about. I also feel if the answer was erroneous that one of the doctors listed on the sight would not have allowed it. I don't believe it is a site where just "anyone" can answer and give medical advice. KWIM?




[/url]

Note that the site does not say WHO is answering those questions. What I can tell you is that I am fairly certain it is not someone who is a vet. The only way I would see a vet suggesting they correct it is if they said the vet made the claim. They are not saying WHO they are. Not a source I would use...perhaps I would read it, but I would look for valid medical research data to back any claims made.

[gidget529]

Originally Posted by BarbaraM

I am sorry you had a pet pass away because of this awful condition. My heart goes out to you.

I was not told to watch his gums, no. I am learning as I go along.

The label on the Hydromet: Give 4ml by mouth every 8 hours as needed to control cough.

As I said he did not cough. The noise he made was when breathing in. He began panting at the vet's office and it became progressively louder and faster. But the vet didn't do a thing but schedule a resection of his palate for the following Friday, I believe. And just let me leave her office.
No cough meds was given to him during this terrible episode that was his spiral downward during the night! No sedation. Nothing. Just the bill for blood work for heart worm.

I should share this information with that vet and let her know how serious CT can be for a pet. I don't believe she had a clue! Or she wouldn't have let Ted leave in that condition.

Thank you for the information. The most important issue with my dog was the inflammation of the trachea and how panicked he became at the hospital. They suggested I pick him up feeling he would calm once he was at home. And he DID! He was on ALL THE MEDS given to me for almost a week. He is still on the Theophylline. The cough med is as needed as it directs on the label. There is no more Pred. The sedative is also on a per need basis.

It does sound like whomever saw Ted left him down. They should have explained watching the gums to you. That is very important. They should have checked Ted's gums and probably started O2. I am no vet; however, I worked in human med clinically.

Glad to hear the Pred has helped the inflammation. The Hydromet just isn't labelled correctly. It should say for spasm not cough. You're right. It is not a cough. Mine was given Tussagon; however, I have heard a lot of ppl hear have been given Hydromet.

Cricket's was managed for years, but I believe she went younger than she should have bc of this terrible disorder. Good luck to you. If anything comes up in the future you would like to talk about, you can always PM me.

[BarbaraM]

Originally Posted by ladyjane

Note that the site does not say WHO is answering those questions. What I can tell you is that I am fairly certain it is not someone who is a vet. The only way I would see a vet suggesting they correct it is if they said the vet made the claim. They are not saying WHO they are. Not a source I would use...perhaps I would read it, but I would look for valid medical research data to back any claims made.

Not to be one to leave a stone unturned when I am after information, I am in contact with them. I will find this information out asap and will forward.

Seems like an actual site to me though. They do ask for donations, but I am sure any web site can be self serving, no? I am NOT sure if I can get financial information from them, I am sure they have a legal dept of some type for that.

I repeat, a site that claims to help animals then posts erroneous information just doesn't seem too credible, to me. Today with all of the law suits, and pets becoming members of the family, one must be careful NOT to diagnose or prescribe lest they get hit with law suits - wouldn't you agree?

I found the info about lomotil very informative. There are always side effects, precautions, drug interactions, etc. Then there is that ONE SIZE FITS ALL mentality to get around as well. Some do well with one type of medication, while others do NOT. I am one to get as much info good/bad as I can and ask ask ask ask as many questions as I can.

I have to agree to the treatment and care of my furry family, I better make sure I know as much as possible. That is why I am so upset that
NOT ONE "VET" SHARE ANY INFORMATION ABOUT CT WHILE TED WAS HAVING EPISODES.

The animal care industry failed Ted with this. I have learned from it and it will help me to learn as much as I can to protect him.

The feeling of admonishing that "vet" will subside in time. But she was the one that came away with almost $500 OF MY MONEY. AND NO TREATMENT FOR A CRITICAL PATIENT.

[BarbaraM]

Originally Posted by gidget529

It does sound like whomever saw Ted left him down. They should have explained watching the gums to you. That is very important. They should have checked Ted's gums and probably started O2. I am no vet; however, I worked in human med clinically.

Glad to hear the Pred has helped the inflammation. The Hydromet just isn't labelled correctly. It should say for spasm not cough. You're right. It is not a cough. Mine was given Tussagon; however, I have heard a lot of ppl hear have been given Hydromet.

Cricket's was managed for years, but I believe she went younger than she should have bc of this terrible disorder. Good luck to you. If anything comes up in the future you would like to talk about, you can always PM me.

Thank you so much. This is so helpful--trying to soak in as much as I can. His case was wonky from the start. I will call Dr. later this pm and ask about that Tussagon. She is wonderful. She - like many here - are rooting for this little guy and feels that vet failed him miserably.

His eyes are so clear and bright. He is so active. I am happy its raining for the urge to run is limited - he goes after the squirrels from next door. I have installed temp fencing and made the yard so much smaller. His meals have been downsized.

I am a helicopter mom: always hovering.

Thanks again. I do appreciate the help (even tho the vet was a bust!!)

[ladyjane]

Originally Posted by BarbaraM

Not to be one to leave a stone unturned when I am after information, I am in contact with them. I will find this information out asap and will forward.

Seems like an actual site to me though. They do ask for donations, but I am sure any web site can be self serving, no? I am NOT sure if I can get financial information from them, I am sure they have a legal dept of some type for that.

I repeat, a site that claims to help animals then posts erroneous information just doesn't seem too credible, to me. Today with all of the law suits, and pets becoming members of the family, one must be careful NOT to diagnose or prescribe lest they get hit with law suits - wouldn't you agree?

I found the info about lomotil very informative. There are always side effects, precautions, drug interactions, etc. Then there is that ONE SIZE FITS ALL mentality to get around as well. Some do well with one type of medication, while others do NOT. I am one to get as much info good/bad as I can and ask ask ask ask as many questions as I can.

I have to agree to the treatment and care of my furry family, I better make sure I know as much as possible. That is why I am so upset that
NOT ONE "VET" SHARE ANY INFORMATION ABOUT CT WHILE TED WAS HAVING EPISODES.

The animal care industry failed Ted with this. I have learned from it and it will help me to learn as much as I can to protect him.

The feeling of admonishing that "vet" will subside in time. But she was the one that came away with almost $500 OF MY MONEY. AND NO TREATMENT FOR A CRITICAL PATIENT.

Yes, it is an actual site. I did not say it was not. If you read the answer to the question about Lomotil, the answer was written by an unknown author. He/she is giving their "opinion" about the use of Lomotil. That is not the same as a site that gives actual research data. It is simply one person's "opinion".
MY opinion is based upon real data from a Veterinary Manual....my "opinion" is that Immodium is not a substitute for Lomotil when used for Collapsing Trachea. I would suggest that anyone interested should consult with a licensed vet to find out whose "opinion" is correct.

Here are the exact words used on that website:

Question:
Is Lomotil good for my dogs collapsing trachea?
Answer:
Lomitil is an opiate antidiarrheal drug, similar to loperamide (Immodium), which has largely replaced it because Lomotil was Rx only and Immodium is OTC. To the best of my knowledge, these drugs have motility-modifying effects only on the GI system, not on the respiratory system. Like any other opioid drug, at high enough doses, they could cause respiratory depression (which may or may not be a good thing in a dog with tracheal collapse). At any rate, since tracheal collapse is a structural problem from degenerating cartilage rings and not a "spasm" problem, I can't see how these drugs would be useful by reducing "spasms" of the trachea. One way that they might be helping (if they do indeed help), is that, being opioid agonists, they possibly have at least a little antitussive (cough inhibiting) effect, although again, the GI motility effect is the main action with these drugs. So, if the patient is coughing and these drugs are even weak cough suppressants, there might be some improvement seen.
However, since there are proven dependable cough suppressants already available to us (such as hydrocodone), I would much rather use one of them, and possibly a tranquilizer also if that was needed.

-------None of the above is given out as factual information...it is merely the person's "opinion".

[ladyjane]

Originally Posted by BarbaraM

Not to be one to leave a stone unturned when I am after information, I am in contact with them. I will find this information out asap and will forward.


I found the info about lomotil very informative. There are always side effects, precautions, drug interactions, etc. Then there is that ONE SIZE FITS ALL mentality to get around as well. Some do well with one type of medication, while others do NOT. I am one to get as much info good/bad as I can and ask ask ask ask as many questions as I can.



.

If you really want information about the use of Lomotil in Collapsing Trachea, it is in Kirk's Veterinary Therapy (I am not sure which volume). Perhaps your vet has it.

Here is a post where I quoted the book :

http://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/3280312-post15.html

[ladyjane]

They make mention that no trials have been done. The only thing I can say is that I have had it help one of my pups....and I have seen good results in two other pups with CT. It is far from a cure......and again, I am only posting what I have had experience with.

No one drug fixes CT. What I found with the last pup who had it was that experimenting with different drugs and also varying them helped. One specialist felt that alternating meds is of benefit...and it did help.

[yorkietalkjilly]

I know personally that every time I took Lomotil it had a very sedating effect on me and I would tend to think it would have that side effect on a dog.

[ladyjane]

Originally Posted by yorkietalkjilly

I know personally that every time I took Lomotil it had a very sedating effect on me and I would tend to think it would have that side effect on a dog.

Most CT pups need some sedation. Tranquilizers are used for them. I did not see any sedation effect from the Lomotil but certainly did from some of the other meds used on Ozzy.

[yorkietalkjilly]

Originally Posted by ladyjane

Most CT pups need some sedation. Tranquilizers are used for them. I did not see any sedation effect from the Lomotil but certainly did from some of the other meds used on Ozzy.

Oh, I thought the sedative effect was why you were using it, to relax the trachea or ease coughing or excitement. What effect did it have that you all used it for?

[ladyjane]

Here is a good site that gives information about medical management.


Michigan Veterinary Specialists - Collapsing Trachea

A quote from that site:


Treatment
When treating the effects of collapsing trachea, multiple medications may be used. Medications can not reverse the changes that have occurred to the trachea, but can help make your pet more comfortable. During the acute phase, respiratory distress and severe bouts of coughing are treated with medication that relax the trachea and lung and sedate your dog.

[ladyjane]

Originally Posted by yorkietalkjilly

Oh, I thought the sedative effect was why you were using it, to relax the trachea or ease coughing or excitement. What effect did it have that you all used it for?

Here is the thread where I quoted the book about the effects of Lomotil:

http://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/3280312-post15.html

[beachdog]

Originally Posted by BarbaraM

The label on the Hydromet: Give 4ml by mouth every 8 hours as needed to control cough.


.

Wow! 4 ml! Paris only gets 1.25 milliliters 2 or 3 times a day.