Collapsing Trachea in Yorkie

[ladyjane]

Originally Posted by beachdog

Oh Yes! Of course it included Paris' vet, he is open to anything I ask and we both have Paris' best inteest at heart. I wouldn't change anything on my own, who knows what interaction something might have with what we are already doing.

*nod*

Just keep Lomotil in mind if things do change. Unfortunately (and I honestly do not know why), many vets don't know about it. It is in the Kirk's Veterinary Manual.

That's great if the meds are working now.

[oliver44]

so sorry xoxo to u both, thoughts & lots of prayers too, god bless. terrible u didn't get the diagnosis & help u needed earlier. do what u can but extraordinary measures r usually just hard on the baby & u too. good luck

[bently 1]

Originally Posted by BarbaraM

I was told in the beginning, at 3 years old, it was a cough - possibly a reverse sneeze. But it progressed. Little by little, slowly but it did become worse. When excited, when going to the vet, being walked. It took TeddE longer and longer to recover from episodes. I was then told possibly a collapsing trachea. No tests. Just told to keep him quiet. Calm. That was three years ago at age 4.

Yesterday for a wellness visit and heartworm check he began HONKING/coughing. Every breath he took sounded awful. Was told it was a palate issue and we schedule a resection surgery for the 4th of November. (He once became this bad at a grooming appt in the summer, too. We have a new groomer now and there has been no more problems, until yesterday).

He kept it up all thru the night. I took him to Purdue Westville at 6 am. Then was told to take him to Lafayette. It is 241pm and he is there now. Resting. Heavily sedated and is in an oxygen cage. They may have to intubate him if he gets worse. They are hoping he settles down and the inflammation decreases so they can get a fluoroscopy of his trachea. And decide on treatment from there, which I hope is minimal medicines and a really good weight loss food.

He did put on weight due to not being able to exercise. (This is bad, I am to learn now. ) I had been giving him less food recently, but he was not getting enough nutrition.

If your vet suspects COLLAPSED TRACHEA or even the soft palate issue that obstructs an airway --don't wait - get the right diagnostic tests IMMEDIATELY, FLUOROSCOPY PLEASE!

I wish I had three years ago. Neither of the three vets that heard and seen TeddE do this honk/cough/sneeze etc., mentioned a test to determine the cause. NOW? He is in critical care at Purdue West Lafayette just trying to breath.

Even when he was having SEVERE issues yesterday and our new vet commented "you need a puppy valium" NOTHING was done. She diagnosed as soft palate and we schedule excision surgery for November 4th, but she needed to xray him and their machine was down yesterday.

Don't wait. Get the needed test. No matter what.

Please.

Sorry to hear about your little one and hope he will be well soon. Thank you for all of the information about CT and I will pray for your little companion.

[lisaly]

I had two Yorkies with collapsing trachea, one quite severe. With my little one, I had to try to keep her from getting too excited or her trachea would start to close and her body temperature would rise. I always had to act quickly to bring her temperature down and her breathing would then return to normal. She had problems with it from the time she was young, but it grew steadily worse. Gracie lived far longer than expected, but she was still only 9.5 years old when she passed away. The vet technicians told me that her doctor was working on a Chinese herbal formula to help with collapsed trachea, but her vet never recommended it to me. My girls mostly were prescribed conventional medicine by him because they were difficult to pill, but her doctor is well known for his treatment using Chinese herbs.

Ashley passed away right before her seventeenth birthday. She also had tracheal problems, but they weren't as severe as Gracie's. She had an enlarged heart as well. In the fifteen years that I went to my vet's practice, I saw countless animals helped using acupuncture and/or the combination of eastern and western medicine. I was only 22 miles from his practice, but many people traveled hundreds of miles because they were told by other doctors that he might help them. I wouldn't have believed it if I hadn't seen it myself. Ashley responded to the herbs for her trachea, and they helped her. When it was bad one time, she needed conventional medicine as well. Chinese herbs definitely helped her enlarged heart along with conventional medicine. I don't know if they would have helped Gracie or if they will help your little one, but I doubt they will hurt TeddE. I am so sorry your baby has this terrible disease. If I can help you in any way, please let me know.

The article below about my vet and the uplifting five minute video explore the use of both conventional and holistic treatments together. I am not advocating the use of alternative medicine, but I also don't ever like to give up hope.

allDAY - The 'Miracle' Vet

Healthcare for furry friends - Bing Videos

[ladyjane]

I do believe that sometimes holistic methods will work, but I never advocate them as a substitute for conventional tried and tested methods.

I keep hearing in my head the words of Steve Jobs biographer who said that Steve regretted not doing surgery sooner instead of opting for alternative treatments. Very sad.

[Marlee12107]

I have an older pom that has a bad case of CT......my vet put her on Predisone last year....she has done so much better. She gets it about 3 times a week. I have to watch her weight but she is not suffering with it now. She had it so bad. I was so afriad I was going to lose her many times before the meds. Hope you baby does well on the meds..........Sending prayers your way......

[BarbaraM]

Originally Posted by ladyjane

BarbaraM all I can say is good luck with that....your thoughts concern me, but I have learned that when people think like you do, there is no one going to change that. I hope it works out well for the sake of your pup.

When people think like I do? You know how I think? What does this even mean, anyway? My thoughts concern you? You can read my thoughts???!! Did you happen to "read" that I take my pets to a vet for annual check ups? Did you "read" they are taken care of ---medically---by an actual vet? I left the last vet for he is doing chiro on horses only. (Yep--CHIRO) TeddE is NO horse! My first vet for TeddE is having some personal issues that I have tried to reckon with for some time. I was hoping this new one was one I could take my pets to. I was wrong. Did you catch how the ER suggested and referred me to Purdue? And that is where I drove to with Ted?? Are you suggesting something else should have been done?

I found this on a yorkie rescue site:

Question:
Is Lomotil good for my dogs collapsing trachea?

Answer:
Lomitil is an opiate antidiarrheal drug, similar to loperamide (Immodium), which has largely replaced it because Lomotil was Rx only and Immodium is OTC. To the best of my knowledge, these drugs have motility-modifying effects only on the GI system, not on the respiratory system. Like any other opioid drug, at high enough doses, they could cause respiratory depression (which may or may not be a good thing in a dog with tracheal collapse). At any rate, since tracheal collapse is a structural problem from degenerating cartilage rings and not a "spasm" problem, I can't see how these drugs would be useful by reducing "spasms" of the trachea. One way that they might be helping (if they do indeed help), is that, being opioid agonists, they possibly have at least a little antitussive (cough inhibiting) effect, although again, the GI motility effect is the main action with these drugs. So, if the patient is coughing and these drugs are even weak cough suppressants, there might be some improvement seen.

However, since there are proven dependable cough suppressants already available to us (such as hydrocodone), I would much rather use one of them, and possibly a tranquilizer also if that was needed.

I posted to let people know. That's all. About collapsed trachea in small pets. That it could progress and something as close as a real diagnosis in the form of an xray or fluoroscopy might prove life saving. Not to accept "keep him calm" as a way to deal. Really. TeddE should have been given something to help him breathe in the vet's office. Or the "doggie valium" she said he needed. SOMETHING. That vet appt wasn't cheap at all. Ted was a new patient that COULD NOT BREATH in a VET'S OFFICE, being held by an owner who had NO idea what his condition was. She did nothing. The next day I am taking him in to the ER then to a veterinary teaching hospital three hours from my home.

I will do all I can to help TeddE live as good a life as he can. (Just purchased non-allergenic organic bedding) Without too much medical intervention and I will continue to feed him food that is nutritious, as well. No corn for us! Most of the corn and soybean in this country is GENETICALLY ENGINEERED anyway!! Thank GOD my daughter is allergic to it. I hear cattle is fattened with it, could be mistaken, tho.

The theophylline (which opens his airway) is currently being given. The hydromet (I read this LAST warning: Before using Hydromet Syrup:

Some medical conditions may interact with Hydromet Syrup. Tell your doctor or pharmacist if you have any medical conditions, especially if any of the following apply to you: if you have lung disease (eg, asthma, history of severe breathing problems), a seizure disorder, serious head injury or brain disease, psychiatric problems (eg, suicidal thoughts), glaucoma, or sleep apnea...) will be used on an AS NEEDED only basis. He did not COUGH. His trachea was making noise as he tried to inhale. He has NOT been coughing at all. I also must not let him drive as the bottle claims. I am seeing positive results from the homeopathy and he has lost two pounds since coming out of the hospital.

The sedative will be necessary in the event he needs to go somewhere or someone is coming here. He is no longer on prednisone as prescribed by the vet at Purdue. I have prescriptions for all for the future. He will get the drugs if necessary. I am continuing to work on getting him to lose weight and see if that helps with his issues. His diet is only the best in nutrition with as little as synthetic ingredients as possible. I feel nutrition is BEST in the FOOD for animals. Not synthetic hormones, anti-biotics, etc. Just pure clean food and water.

The door bell is no longer operational. Phone ringers are OFF. He is a CHANGED doggie! He acts and looks amazing.
He tends to make a honk when chasing squirrels along the fence in the back yard. (Will somehow train squirrels to stay off fence?? ).
The herbs - he HATES, but the poodle LOVES. No more herbs for Ted. I mash up his homeopathy for throat (swelling), Lungs and calming in a mortar and pestle and add to organic sodium free chicken broth and filtered water. (The oral syringe given by the hospital for the cough med actually made him choke and gasp!!!!)

Thank you everyone for the kind words and healing wishes for TeddE. If you could see him now! He allowed me to give him a bath, trim wild patches of hair here and there and he is doing very well. He is whiney at meal time - but the steroids are being worked out of his system, still.

My hopes for this thread is that pet owners take notice of those odd noises and notice if they become stronger, last longer or more frequent and to get AN ACTUAL DIAGNOSIS. Collapsing trachea is manageable at this point, for my yorkie. A stent procedure? To have it possibly migrate deeper down the trachea near the lungs? No. Not in his future.

Thank you again everyone. My vet bills are over $1500. This could have been avoided with the new vet taking care of his issues right there and then. I had no idea the seriousness of this. The new vet was the THIRD vet that was familiar with his honk/cough/gasp and DID NOTHING. So the way I think is to let people know thru MY experiences what NOT to do. Hoping that their pet is spared the constant poking with needles and the desperate look he had when trying to breath to the "passing out" and his tongue hanging out after all the sedation, to the excrement all over him due to the massive amount of drugs.

[BarbaraM]

Originally Posted by lisaly

I had two Yorkies with collapsing trachea, one quite severe. With my little one, I had to try to keep her from getting too excited or her trachea would start to close and her body temperature would rise. I always had to act quickly to bring her temperature down and her breathing would then return to normal. She had problems with it from the time she was young, but it grew steadily worse. Gracie lived far longer than expected, but she was still only 9.5 years old when she passed away. The vet technicians told me that her doctor was working on a Chinese herbal formula to help with collapsed trachea, but her vet never recommended it to me. My girls mostly were prescribed conventional medicine by him because they were difficult to pill, but her doctor is well known for his treatment using Chinese herbs.

Ashley passed away right before her seventeenth birthday. She also had tracheal problems, but they weren't as severe as Gracie's. She had an enlarged heart as well. In the fifteen years that I went to my vet's practice, I saw countless animals helped using acupuncture and/or the combination of eastern and western medicine. I was only 22 miles from his practice, but many people traveled hundreds of miles because they were told by other doctors that he might help them. I wouldn't have believed it if I hadn't seen it myself. Ashley responded to the herbs for her trachea, and they helped her. When it was bad one time, she needed conventional medicine as well. Chinese herbs definitely helped her enlarged heart along with conventional medicine. I don't know if they would have helped Gracie or if they will help your little one, but I doubt they will hurt TeddE. I am so sorry your baby has this terrible disease. If I can help you in any way, please let me know.

The article below about my vet and the uplifting five minute video explore the use of both conventional and holistic treatments together. I am not advocating the use of alternative medicine, but I also don't ever like to give up hope.

allDAY - The 'Miracle' Vet

Healthcare for furry friends - Bing Videos

Thank you SO much and ((((((hugs))))). I am so sorry to hear about your fur babies. :*(

I will try anything and everything. He loves the freerange bison trachea for treats. They are cut up for him and given once a day. I may try some other supplements, as well. Who knows? How did that guy figure out that mold on an orange...never mind! Thanks again. I will try the herbs for Ted again. He kept sneezing after trying them. I mix them in the broth/water. But my daughter's poodle really like them?

[ladyjane]

Originally Posted by BarbaraM

When people think like I do? You know how I think? What does this even mean, anyway? My thoughts concern you? You can read my thoughts???!! Did you happen to "read" that I take my pets to a vet for annual check ups? Did you "read" they are taken care of ---medically---by an actual vet? I left the last vet for he is doing chiro on horses only. (Yep--CHIRO) TeddE is NO horse! My first vet for TeddE is having some personal issues that I have tried to reckon with for some time. I was hoping this new one was one I could take my pets to. I was wrong. Did you catch how the ER suggested and referred me to Purdue? And that is where I drove to with Ted?? Are you suggesting something else should have been done?

I found this on a yorkie rescue site:

Question:Is Lomotil good for my dogs collapsing trachea?
Answer:Lomitil is an opiate antidiarrheal drug, similar to loperamide (Immodium), which has largely replaced it because Lomotil was Rx only and Immodium is OTC. To the best of my knowledge, these drugs have motility-modifying effects only on the GI system, not on the respiratory system. Like any other opioid drug, at high enough doses, they could cause respiratory depression (which may or may not be a good thing in a dog with tracheal collapse). At any rate, since tracheal collapse is a structural problem from degenerating cartilage rings and not a "spasm" problem, I can't see how these drugs would be useful by reducing "spasms" of the trachea. One way that they might be helping (if they do indeed help), is that, being opioid agonists, they possibly have at least a little antitussive (cough inhibiting) effect, although again, the GI motility effect is the main action with these drugs. So, if the patient is coughing and these drugs are even weak cough suppressants, there might be some improvement seen.
However, since there are proven dependable cough suppressants already available to us (such as hydrocodone), I would much rather use one of them, and possibly a tranquilizer also if that was needed.

.

I got my information from a vet who had Kirks' Veterinary Manual as a reference.

I realize that you are upset, but no vet is the enemy here nor are YT members who only mean well.

[ladyjane]

I will keep you and your pup, TeddE in my thoughts and prayers. I have lived with this awful condition and I am so sorry you and your pup are going through it. If you ever need
anything feel free to PM me. I will not be posting on this thread again as my intent
was to help, not irritate.

[BarbaraM]

Originally Posted by ladyjane

I got my information from a vet who had Kirks' Veterinary Manual as a reference.

I realize that you are upset, but no vet is the enemy here nor are YT members who only mean well.

I truly have NO idea what the problem is that you are having with my thread.

Im not the one that made that comment: BarbaraM all I can say is good luck with that....your thoughts concern me, but I have learned that when people think like you do, there is no one going to change that. I hope it works out well for the sake of your pup. I believe that was you, to me. I still don't know why?

As for no vet is the enemy here, you are right. I don't believe I accused any "vet" here at all. Just sharing an actual experience. A very COSTLY experience that could have had DIRE consequences with my pet!!! The vet that last heard Ted, did NOTHING to help the dog! If you took it personally, you could have just not replied, right? For there was NO reference implied or otherwise directed at YOU.

As for the lomotil, I got my information from a yorkie rescue site -- but thanks any way, I guess.

[ladyjane]

Originally Posted by BarbaraM

I truly have NO idea what the problem is that you are having with my thread.

Im not the one that made that comment: BarbaraM all I can say is good luck with that....your thoughts concern me, but I have learned that when people think like you do, there is no one going to change that. I hope it works out well for the sake of your pup. I believe that was you, to me. I still don't know why?

As for no vet is the enemy here, you are right. I don't believe I accused any "vet" here at all. Just sharing an actual experience. A very COSTLY experience that could have had DIRE consequences with my pet!!! The vet that last heard Ted, did NOTHING to help the dog! If you took it personally, you could have just not replied, right? For there was NO reference implied or otherwise directed at YOU.

As for the lomotil, I got my information from a yorkie rescue site -- but thanks any way, I guess.

My point is that I do not believe that the person who wrote that on that rescue site knows what they are talking about.

Lomotil and Immodium are not the same medications. A person would need to know WHY Lomotil works before making a statement that another anti diarrheal would do the same thing!

I post the above for people who just might be interested in a medication that might help their CT pup. I have seen it work for three CT pups and I only share what I have learned and/or experienced.

Sometimes we post things for other people ... not just one person.

[BarbaraM]

ladyjane -


In response to your comment (My point is that I do not believe that the person who wrote that on that rescue site knows what they are talking about.) The website claims:

This web site is dedicated to dogs battling with Collapsing Trachea and dogs who have lost that battle. The work we do is in honor of all small breed dogs who have suffered with this defect. We would like to thank the doctors that are searching for a way to help this life threatening problem in Yorkshire Terriers and other small breed dogs.

If your pet is having a problem with or is suspected to have a collapsing trachea problem or if you know someone whose pet is having this problem please contact us by E-mail so that we can try to help you get the care your pet needs.

CollapsingTrachea.com is a fund of Yorkshire Terrier National Rescue, Inc. (YTNR) A 501 (c)(3) non profit organization.

I believe they DO know what they are talking about. I also feel if the answer was erroneous that one of the doctors listed on the sight would not have allowed it. I don't believe it is a site where just "anyone" can answer and give medical advice. KWIM?

There just might be good cause why many vets WON'T suggest lomotil. I am not sure why this particular vet teaching hospital suggested hydromet.


Precautions and Side Effects (Lomotil)

While generally safe and effective when prescribed by a veterinarian, diphenoxylate can cause side effects in some animals.
Diphenoxylate should not be used in animals with known hypersensitivity or allergy to the drug.
Diphenoxylate should be avoided in animals with an overactive thyroid, kidney impairment, head trauma, colic,lung disease or liver disease.
Diphenoxylate may interact with other medications. Consult with your veterinarian to determine if other drugs your pet is receiving could interact with diphenoxylate. Such drugs include certain antihistamines, tranquilizers, barbiturates and monoamine oxidase inhibitors.
The most common adverse effects are constipation and sedation.
Diphenoxylate's use in cats is controversial and should be avoided.

Personally, I am trying Natural remedies, such as --

Natural and holistic treatments have been used for centuries to treat and provide symptomatic relief for respiratory problems. Herbal ingredients combined with selected biochemic tissue salts are safe and gentle to use while at the same time also promotes overall vitality and wellness for your pet’s health.

Herbs such as Plantago lanceolata and Echinacea purpurea supports the upper respiratory tract and acts as a tonic for the immune system. Bryonia, Ferrum Phosphate, Kalium sulphate and Magnesium phosphate soothes coughs, and keeps the lungs, chest and throat clear and healthy.

I hope Ted doesn't get an infection. I am not sure how that would occur - his breathing is fine and unobstructed. In the event he needs antibiotics, the vet will prescribe and I will give them to him.

He loves his raw meals. He has lost a pound. (He came out of the hospital weighing a pound less than what he went in for a loss of approx two)

I read this on nutrition for humans - Oddly, even though dietary supplements often exhibit fewer side effects and lower costs and have the same biological action as a prescription drug, when informed they may benefit from taking a dietary supplement patients oftentimes say they will first have to ask their doctor if supplements might interfere with their drugs, not the other way around. Drugs are not essential for life, vitamins and minerals are.

I also found this - it is NOT necessarily MY opinion:

And why does your veterinarian always want to sell you Hill's Science Diet? Well,
you should know that the associations, in general, have a vested financial interest in
many of the products a veterinarian can sell to clients (Veterinary Associations are
major shareholders in Hill's Science diet...),

This is my opinion: I WOULD NEVER FEED A PET I LOVE ANYTHING THAT PROCTOR & GAMBLE MANUFACTURED. I wonder if they DO give premiums to vets that push their foods? Vets don't make money on healthy pets, do they?


Myths About Raw: Is my vet really qualified to be giving nutritional advice?

[gidget529]

Barbara - My Cricket (RIP) had CT. She passed last Nov at 13. The cough med is given bc it stops the gagging sensation pups w CT have. It becomes a spasm almost. The cough med stops the spasm of the trachea. The anxiety they feel is not only the terrifying sensation of not being able to breathe, it also comes physiologically as CO2 builds up in a body bc of the inadequate O2/CO2 exchange during these attacks. I am so sorry you are facing this. It is terrifying for the owner also to hear the lack of air exchange and be unable to help.

I don't know if you were told, but it is important to watch the gum color during and after these attacks. If the gums become bluish, you have a medical emergency that needs urgent attention. They are not getting enough O2 and need supplemental O2 provided by a vet's office.

[teffiemoore]

I have one with CT also, which is why the interest in this thread.... I certainly hope the misunderstanding here isn't based on this article from the vet tech that posted the reply regarding the Lomotil ...please reread the response he wrote...but, whatever works for each is what's important.