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09-02-2011, 12:13 PM | #136 | |
YT Addict Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Alexandria, MN USA
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__________________ Ann 's:Lucy and :Tubby | |
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09-02-2011, 12:35 PM | #137 | |
YT Addict Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Alexandria, MN USA
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I completely understand this because I am not ignorant nor am I naive to the fact that some of the technology today and the way things have progressed is because of experimentation and testing on animals. This is not all directed to the above statement but to others that have commented previously as well. That being said I am just surprised at the (in my opinion) casual way some have said that it's all for the good of MY PET. In my mind there should be NO animal testing - with the technology we have today you can't tell me that there is NO OTHER WAY?! I am also a little flabbergasted that there seems (imo) to be more sympathy toward the treatment of cows and pigs vs. DOGS?! I grew up on a farm and to me cattle and pigs were raised solely for their meat and that is the only way some survived back in the day - I think the way they are treated before they are put down is deplorable but I am not going to become a vegan because of that. Cattle, pigs (with the exception of potbelly pigs) and chickens are raised for their meat and eggs............DOGS are domestic animals that are raised to be a part of a family and I treat mine as such and the thought that someone could have experimented or tested something on them torturing them just breaks my heart in half!! It is not a casual subject for me and it never will be and I will NOT support a company that does animal testing on DOGS!!! I honestly think it is all about money and that there are other ways to test products but it would be more expensive so they don't do it!!! Everything in this world is motivated by money so no one can tell me this isn't about money-P&G is all about MONEY-of course they are they are a HUGE conglomerate and they own the rights to about 1/2 the products in your house-it's about MONEY!!!! The mistreatment of ANY animal is just not right and to me THAT is black and white. There is no reason a pig couldn't be used instead of a dog-or is that not okay? My mother had open heart surgery and she has a pig valve inside her not a dog valve so......hmmmmm, I just don't know what else to say!? I wonder if the pig that gave up their valve for my mother was tortured.... If a person was a dog hoarder and they had a bunch of dogs in their house in kennels and laying around because they didn't have enough room to walk around the house, if they had sores on their legs that did not heal this person would be fined and jailed......think about it!
__________________ Ann 's:Lucy and :Tubby Last edited by aproctor; 09-02-2011 at 12:36 PM. Reason: Added something | |
09-02-2011, 12:54 PM | #138 | |
Gidget & Sidney's Mom Donating Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: PA
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Wow. Not sure why the "I am not ignorant" statement was said. I'm glad your mother benefitted from the procedure developed from animal testing. We actually have mechanical, porcine, and bovine valves. Each patient is evaluated, and the appropriate valve for patient and failing valve is chosen due to the individual evaluation. I don't differentiate between domesticated and non-domesticated animals when it comes to animals giving their lives for another. Animal cruelty towards a horse is just as horendous (sp) to me as a dog. I'm not sure in the grand scheme of things how it is going to turn out for us as humans to put our needs above other species needs and feelings. There are some ppl who think you should be a vegan bc of how animals are slaughtered and cared for. Should they make such inflammatory statements to you bc you do not agree? As I stated before, I am grateful to the sacrifices that dogs make for us every day in all walks - police dogs, cadavar dogs, drug dogs, rescue dogs, and the dogs that were used in cardiology bc of their similarity to human hearts. How many ppl do you know are as selfless as these dogs? I'm not sure why this strong response was given, especially as I said, I am not sure who should be making the decision which animal dies, which animal lives, which animal gets treated humanely, which animal dies an awful death for my dinner. There is this comedian who says we humans are very hypocritical when it comes to animal rights. Cute animals are deemed not appropriate to eat or be cruel to: otters, dogs, cats, bunnies, etc. Not so cute animals are appropriate to live lives of suffering and die in slaughter: cattle, pigs, chickens, etc. Something to think about, huh?
__________________ Mommy to Gidget, Sidney & Cricket(RIP) | |
09-02-2011, 01:06 PM | #139 | |
♥ Maximo and Teddy Donating Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Northern Virginia
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What kind of advanced technology would allow for developing heartworm preventatives without using dogs in the labs? How would money make a difference? A billion dollars available, how would the heartworm preventative be developed and tested for effectiveness without injecting animals in the lab with heartworms? Current heartworm preventatives are starting to fail against new strains of heartworms. We need new and better preventatives to safeguard our pets.
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09-02-2011, 01:13 PM | #140 | |
Action Jackson ♥ Donating Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Maryland
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__________________ ~ Brit & Lights! Camera! Jackson! CGC ETD TKP ~ Follow Jackson on Instagram: https://instagram.com/jacksontheterrier Last edited by Britster; 09-02-2011 at 01:14 PM. | |
09-02-2011, 01:14 PM | #141 | |
YT Addict Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Alexandria, MN USA
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As I said I wasn't really addressing my whole statement on your quote--It was for all of the previous statements as well. I am not sure what I said that was inflammatory I was just stating that I don't understand how one could become vegan because they deplore the treatment of animals yet they are casual about how dogs are tortured for the "betterment" of society. The "I am not ignorant" was really for others who repeatedly said things earlier about how dogs NEED to be tested so that drugs and food would be okay to give to their animals. I personally LOVE ALL animals, I think cows, horses, pigs, chickens, dogs, cats, etc are God's BEAUTIFUL creations and should ALL be treated humanely! I was in no way saying it's okay to mistreat a cow, pig, horse, chicken, etc. I again think ALL animals should be treated humanely.....the point I was trying to make was that I was flabbergasted that there are people out there that are Vegans because of the mistreatment of animals but are not as horrified by a beagle going insane because they are put in a kennel all their life, or have pieces of their backside chopped out, or given shots that make them sick or ill and they are just left on a floor to die.......all for the benefit of their own pet. Yet, they refuse to eat meat because of the horrendous treatment of those animals.....you see to me that is sort of an oxymoron..... I deplore ALL mistreatment of animals not just one type or kind.
__________________ Ann 's:Lucy and :Tubby | |
09-02-2011, 01:18 PM | #142 |
And Rylee Finnegan Donating Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Metro Detroit, MI
Posts: 17,928
| I'll preface this by saying JMHO. I'm a biological sciences major and pre-veterinary student. I wouldn't be aiming for vet school if I didn't love animals. And I just do not see any way that animal testing can be eliminated. It is impossible. Yes, some of it may have to do with money. And certainly there is cruelty going on that is avoidable and that has to do with money. However, there are many things that just can't be tested by machines. I applaud the companies that have found a way, but it is not always possible. It seems there is a lot of emotion on this thread over this, but I don't see any suggestions about what companies could do to avoid testing on animals. Going back to heartworm disease - could we inject heartworms into pigs and then inject a heartworm drug and then euthanize and send for necropsy all while expecting that the results would be the same in the dog? No we can't. I'm not really sure why pigs are so much less important than dogs anyway. Yes, I prefer dogs, but in other countries people eat them. Pigs are very smart animals. Cows are amazing animals. Dogs being better than pigs and cows is really a personal belief. I'm casual about it not because I like it, but because it's a fact of life. There was a time when I would have gotten totally upset (and I'll be the first to say I couldn't work in a lab with dogs), but I believe this is how my animals lead good lives. I would rather the drugs that my dogs take weren't given to them first. I'd call that unacceptable. I'd rather my heart meds were tried on animals (even dogs) before I take them. Usually the animal chosen is chosen for a reason. You can't test a rabies vaccine made for dogs on pigs. Then what? We know it works or doesn't work for pigs and have no idea if it works for dogs. So just start giving it to all the dogs that have owners and hope for the best? And if the vaccine kills these owned dogs, the company will be sued.. And if it fails? Then the dog ends up getting bitten and then bites a person - person is now dead. Look at the Rabies Challenge Fund. Dogs will be euthanized after given a dose of rabies to be tested. If we don't go through with the study, then our dogs will have to receive the rabies vaccine every 3 years for all time. BTW, I have a very serious medical issue (not fatal - nobody freak). The "fix" is being tested on dogs. For whatever reason, the extremely intelligent researchers in this country have decided that dogs are the best option. It is not something that a machine could possibly do. So I say no testing on dogs because a machine should be able to do it (which is impossible) and not accept the fix if there is one someday? Apparently the pig isn't as good for this (and even if it was, they are still living things). Or should I just let them experiment on me? If they get it wrong, I'm in a whole heck of a lot of trouble in this case.. ??
__________________ Crystal, Ellie May (RIP), Rylee Finnegan, and Gracie Boo🐶 |
09-02-2011, 01:19 PM | #143 | |
YT Addict Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Alexandria, MN USA
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I understand what you are saying yet I can't believe there is "no other way" to test these things. I am sure that is the most accurate but I have a hard time believing there is not another way. I personally don't have the answer for "the other way" BUT I think we should strive for a better way and I know there are very intelligent people out there that if given enough research "money" they can find a way. There are better tests to check for breast cancer but because they cost A LOT more than the mammogram we continue to use the mammogram as the primary form of testing. That is my point-it usually comes down to money with everything.
__________________ Ann 's:Lucy and :Tubby | |
09-02-2011, 01:23 PM | #144 | |
I ♥ Joey & Ralphie! Donating Member | Quote:
__________________ NancyJoey Proud members of the CrAzYcLuB and YAP! ** Just Say No to Puppymills – Join YAP! Yorkshire Terrier Club of America – Breeder Referrals | |
09-02-2011, 01:25 PM | #145 | |
Gidget & Sidney's Mom Donating Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: PA
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I personally do not like to diminish these selfless acts of dogs and simply say "it is what they were bred to do."
__________________ Mommy to Gidget, Sidney & Cricket(RIP) | |
09-02-2011, 01:28 PM | #146 |
YT Addict Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Alexandria, MN USA
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__________________ Ann 's:Lucy and :Tubby |
09-02-2011, 01:28 PM | #147 | |
♥ Maximo and Teddy Donating Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Northern Virginia
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Money, recognition, and power have motivated people to invent great things just as much as necessity and creative drive. I agree with Ellie May's post. In many cases, using animals, dogs, for lab testing is often unavoidable if we want safe, effective medications and health treatments.
__________________ Kristin, Max and Teddy | |
09-02-2011, 01:28 PM | #148 |
And Rylee Finnegan Donating Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Metro Detroit, MI
Posts: 17,928
| I don't see where anybody said they thought it was okay to torture dogs. I think I speak for everyone here - we HATE it. That doesn't make it any less necessary. Good researchers try to minimize pain and suffering. In the case of heartworm testing, it probably isn't anymore painful than an injection. It's still incredibly sad and stirs up emotion. But I see no other way. Yes, my dogs come before all other animals on the face of this earth in my mind.
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09-02-2011, 01:30 PM | #149 |
I ♥ Joey & Ralphie! Donating Member | The more people we have like you in science the better!
__________________ NancyJoey Proud members of the CrAzYcLuB and YAP! ** Just Say No to Puppymills – Join YAP! Yorkshire Terrier Club of America – Breeder Referrals |
09-02-2011, 01:31 PM | #150 |
♥ Maximo and Teddy Donating Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 25,041
| Adding to my post... In other words, if there were a magic solution to avoid the use of animals, someone would invent it, patent it, sell it and promote to make lots of $$$.
__________________ Kristin, Max and Teddy |
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