Blue Buffalo~Not good news!

[roseylovestosho]

Originally Posted by Ellie May

Because of the extremely cruel treatment of farm animals, I no longer choose to support the industry. I think it's incredibly cruel. And I think people choose to look away because they like meat. IMO, that is a much bigger issue than making sure a food product is safe for the nation's dogs.

Thank you. There's no point of me to add anything because you stated it perfectly...and if you see what they do to make something "kosher" it's horrific.

[Ellie May]

Originally Posted by sallyann

I guess you didn't watch the video that I saw. It broke my heart, I can't stand any human or animal to suffer. They debarked them and tied them down! Force fed, it was awful what I saw! Not to mention the treatment, like things that had no feelings. No interaction what soever.

I didn't like this video and chose a long time ago to avoid Iams (although I'm not sure how we can be sure it is from there?). SD and RC do animal testing, but there is no indication thus far that it would look anywhere near as terrible as this.

But all that said, some of these things are done in veterinary hospitals everyday. Dogs are tied down during surgery. They have masks on their faces sometimes. They have tubes in their throats. They lay on the floor to recover. And if they aren't breathing, I wouldn't doubt that somebody would hit their chest. They are also force fed sometimes. While I don't like seeing the kinds of things they are doing, I'm not sure it's quite as bad as it looks.

[yorkietalkjilly]

Animals serve humans in so many ways that are not fair to that animal. You see poor dogs having to go in and sniff out bombs or carry a camera into a place with a potential bomb in it, while the human officers/servicemen with families depending upon them stand back in relative safety. In war and combat, dogs are often sent into harm's way first. Police dogs are sent after men with guns to potentially save an officer. Those bombs or bad guys can and do hurt and maim those dogs in the name of "public and officer/serviceman safety". I rarely hear of outrage over putting those dogs in harm's way. They aren't treated as badly as lab dogs overall by far but they are still essentially guinea pigs, put at risk for mankind.

I know I would rest easier knowing that the medication I might be giving my little 4 week old infant has been tested for horrible side effects on a dog, pig or mouse rather than another poor little baby, which you no doubt could get in the third world in some situations! It is just one of the sad facts of life that some type of bio testing has to be done to keep vast numbers of other animals and humans safe.

And make no mistake about it, in teaching hospitals, humans without insurance are tested in new surgical, chemotherapy and medication protocols daily, very often with no knowledge or consent. It has long been a sad fact of life that those lessons learned on the indigent have helped every one of us. Do I support that? No, but that won't stop it. And you never could prove it but if you ever listen to doctors talking about their teaching hospital days you get an eye-opening course in what really goes on.

It is a sad and fallen world we live in and not fair to so many people and creatures. Where there is testing and experimentation, it should be done in only the most humane way possible, of course, and I believe in doing all we can to stop that labs and corps who allow it to happen otherwise. But I don't think we can even imagine how hazardous this life would be were medications and OTC pet and personal care items to be allowed to be marketed with only the limited testing you could get from paid volunteers.

[Maximo]

Originally Posted by sallyann

I guess you didn't watch the video that I saw. It broke my heart, I can't stand any human or animal to suffer. They debarked them and tied them down! Force fed, it was awful what I saw! Not to mention the treatment, like things that had no feelings. No interaction what soever.

What was the purpose of the test? I admit, I will not watch the video.

Is this how a standard feeding trial is done for a pet food?

[Ellie May]

Originally Posted by Maximo

What was the purpose of the test? I admit, I will not watch the video.

Is this how a standard feeding trial is done for a pet food?

AAFCO feeding trials are completely non-invasive (beyond the blood draws). They study what goes in the mouth and what come out as stool. And they study the blood.

Whether the housing is the same, I don't know. These Iams dogs had to lay in kennels with just the metal bars at the bottom instead of blankets.

SD doesn't do this type of testing as far as I know, nor does RC. It just varies by company.

[yorkietalkjilly]

I couldn't stand to watch a video of a serviceman being shot in the gut with massive open wounds and suffering horribly as medics work on him either. Or a fireman that has just been horribly burned as they try to help him. Or a policeman trying to stop a robbery shot point blank and watch him as he goes down and just lies there with a camera recording all the horrible things going on physically and mentally with him as he wonders if he will live. There are many things in life that have to take place to keep the world safer but I cannot intimately participate in watching it happen or would go madder than a hatter.

[sallyann]

well I guess its all in the eye of the beholder, and the way you look at things. Sadly our society these days doesn't think they are held responsible for what others do in life. If we don't stand up for what is right, then who will. If not me or you than who will. We can't just all go along with the flow. Because then you have a country that your grand-kids live in that that no one cares about anybody else s feelings. We have to do the right thing for our own sanity and peace of mind. If its okay to treat an animal this way, then next it will be okay to treat people this way, not to say that its not already happening. We are human beings that think and feel and care about suffering of others. And if this way isn't right we find another way! I don't know all the answers, only what is right and good and what is evil. People that have these kind of occupations I am sure don't sleep well at night and suffer from all kinds of ailments. Because in their heart they know its not right. I'd hate to meet the kind of person it doesn't bother. That's a whole other animal! I sure I must of upset some people and I am sorry it bothered you. But I have to do and say whats right.

[Maximo]

Originally Posted by sallyann

well I guess its all in the eye of the beholder, and the way you look at things. Sadly our society these days doesn't think they are held responsible for what others do in life. If we don't stand up for what is right, then who will. If not me or you than who will. We can't just all go along with the flow. Because then you have a country that your grand-kids live in that that no one cares about anybody else s feelings. We have to do the right thing for our own sanity and peace of mind. If its okay to treat an animal this way, then next it will be okay to treat people this way, not to say that its not already happening. We are human beings that think and feel and care about suffering of others. And if this way isn't right we find another way! I don't know all the answers, only what is right and good and what is evil. People that have these kind of occupations I am sure don't sleep well at night and suffer from all kinds of ailments. Because in their heart they know its not right. I'd hate to meet the kind of person it doesn't bother. That's a whole other animal! I sure I must of upset some people and I am sorry it bothered you. But I have to do and say whats right.

The question remains....does this mean you will use a product on your pets (food/medications) that has not been tested?

If the product fails and causes your pet to become sick or die, what will your response be?

Will you blame the manufacturer for putting out an unsafe product? Or will you understand that the manufacturer had no way of knowing if the product was safe because they had no means of testing it?

[Maximo]

No one wants animals to suffer. But there is no way of getting around the above questions.

[Ellie May]

Originally Posted by Maximo

The question remains....does this mean you will use a product on your pets (food/medications) that has not been tested?

If the product fails and causes your pet to become sick or die, what will your response be?

Will you blame the manufacturer for putting out an unsafe product? Or will you understand that the manufacturer had no way of knowing if the product was safe because they had no means of testing it?

This is also my question.

Additionally, is non-testing even okay for things like heartworm drugs (to some of you here)? So you'd use a drug in hopes of it preventing heartworm without the company ever trying it to see if it works or how much damage it causes? You'd risk your dogs getting the disease by giving a product from a company that has no idea if it works on dogs or not?

[yorkietalkjilly]

Ideals are great and we all must have them to try to see suffering, inequality and cruelty and try to stop it, but I will line up with those that don't want to use my own family or beloved pet as a guinea pig. As police and army dogs or drafted servicemen, many serve the world at large as true heroes albeit through no choice of their own. We owe them all a great debt that we can never repay except to stop inhumane cruelty when we can.

[sallyann]

You mean to tell me that there are not already products out there to combat heart worms, aids, heart disease,flea infestation, high cholesterol, diabetes, great foods to feed our pups, etc. etc. etc. Its all the the big companies to get more money bigger and better meat, medicine, cleansing products, house cleaning products. Just turn on tv and they have drugs for things you haven't even thought of yet. Go ask your doctor for this medicine if you have scabs on your elbows! Hey enough is enough, we have enough already, americans really are greedy. We have way more than enough of products to live a great healthy life!

[yorkietalkjilly]

As bugs or human/dog biological systems find ways to mutate and mitigate the effects of current products, new ones must always be developed. Drug-resistent flesheating bugs, vaccines that lose effectiveness when the disease mutates. And there are other problems with existing bio products: I take an eye medication that works wonders for what it was designed for but causes increased eye pressure, putting my very sight at risk, whereas a newer product treats the condition and does not cause increased intraocular pressure. Same story across the board with bio products. R&D needed desperately in so many areas.

[Ellie May]

But these products were tested on animals. If that's not okay, then why buy them?

Some flea products are losing effectiveness and there is some indication that a new strain of heartworm could require more preventatives to be made.

It's better that if a member of you family (people or pet) has a very serious disease, that they go with the drugs available right now (that were tested on animals) instead of creating more drugs that could be better?

I want my family to have the very best even if that requires animal testing. I have no desire for them to be the guinea pigs. And there is just no way that drugs can be used without trials. Food could be, but it obviously has the potential to cause a lot of harm (just look at the BB vitamin D toxicity issue), so IMO it shouldn't be.

I think Hill's has a very fair promise. I hope they stick to it because they get respect from me over it.

[Maximo]

Originally Posted by sallyann

You mean to tell me that there are not already products out there to combat heart worms, aids, heart disease,flea infestation, high cholesterol, diabetes, great foods to feed our pups, etc. etc. etc. Its all the the big companies to get more money bigger and better meat, medicine, cleansing products, house cleaning products. Just turn on tv and they have drugs for things you haven't even thought of yet. Go ask your doctor for this medicine if you have scabs on your elbows! Hey enough is enough, we have enough already, americans really are greedy. We have way more than enough of products to live a great healthy life!

Blaming money is a cop out. Do you work for free and buy only what is necessary to sustain your life?

To say we have enough and that we should halt any type of progress is not something I'm willing to support. There were people in the Dark Ages who felt that way.