Blue Buffalo~Not good news!

[Maximo]

I would imagine the dogs would have to have some kind of activity, otherwise they would become ill or have physical problems from sitting in kennels around the clock.

[Ellie May]

I'd give the food at least 3 weeks to evaluate it (unless pet becomes relaly sick right away). If after that there is still gas and such, then I would immediately discontinue it.

Most sales clerks know next to nothing about nutrition. They can get ideas from managers or the internet about what ingredients are best, but simply saying chicken meal is better than by-product, etc., etc. is not nutritional science. It's opinion.

I don't like that animals have to be tested on just as much as the next person (in fact, I hate animal cruelty and that is why I became a vegetarian). However, my dogs aren't going to be tested on (this is why I try to stay away from new drugs for them too). Also, the same does go for drugs. They are tried on research animals before your dogs. So you would really rather new drugs be tried on your dogs before tested on animals in a lab setting? If a food is so safe, then it should not pose risk in a clinical trial. And no kennels aren't always fun, but some companies do seem to be trying hard to treat their animals right. One company (forget which one) even has an agility course for their pups (which is much more than my dogs have). No, I'm not in favor of hurting animals by testing, but yes, I think most people on YT would admit that they would rather it be a dog bred for research instead of their own. Some do in-house testing with employees' dogs, but a lot of that is limited to palatability. And some (RC being one) do a lot with breeders that may be more extensive. I'd just hope some kind of trial is being done to show me that a food is digestible enough and isn't going to make my dog's bloodwork crazy if eating it for a few months. That's far better than just hoping the company knows what they are doing because a lot of them simply don't.

[_Chrissy_]

Originally Posted by Maximo

I would not listen to the sales clerk either.

Sorry to hear that the Fromm is not working for your kiddos. Do they eat anything in addition to their kibble? My boys eat that same food and if I add anything to their diet, they have problems. When it is pure kibble, they are great.

I hope you find something that works for you.

I will take away Bully Sticks for a week and see if it matters but they have always had Bullies
They LOVE the food though.

[Rhetts_mama]

Originally Posted by Nancy1999

How do you suggest we test? First of all, dogs don't necessarily hate kennels, and kennels can be humane. Also, if a food isn't giving a dog proper nourishment, it's much better that they would be learned in a clinical environment where they are constantly checking blood samples and doing tests. At home you might not learn that the dog is severely malnourished until it's too late. I would hope the labs would be filled with dog lovers who ensure that dogs are being treated appropriately. I think we all should be against inhumane experiments, but not all experiments are inhumane. If the lab doesn’t test, you are the experimenter.

By it's very definition, how can a kennel be humane? A visit once or twice a day from a worker is no substitute for regular human interaction. We would never, ever say it's ok to stick a bunch of kids in kennels so we can test whether or not Coco Puffs is good for them. Why are animals so different? A kennel, even one well staffed, would not be providing real-world situational data.

In all honesty, how is a clinical kennel really any more humane than a puppy mill. And just where do you think these kennels get their subjects from?

[Britster]

Originally Posted by Rhetts_mama

By it's very definition, how can a kennel be humane? A visit once or twice a day from a worker is no substitute for regular human interaction. We would never, ever say it's ok to stick a bunch of kids in kennels so we can test whether or not Coco Puffs is good for them. Why are animals so different? A kennel, even one well staffed, would not be providing real-world situational data.

In all honesty, how is a clinical kennel really any more humane than a puppy mill. And just where do you think these kennels get their subjects from?

My thoughts all along.

[gracielove]

I'm not on one side of the dog food issue or the other. Just keep in mind when you go on the internet that you are reading things from mostly unknown sources that have an agenda of one form or another. Some companies will try to torpedo the company that is out selling them. Sometimes there are other groups with other issues. Unless there are proven facts done by a reputable impartial group it is hard to sort out some of what we find on the internet. I don't feed my dog the brand name grocery store dog foods because after reading for months and months I decided to try to get as close to what a dog would naturally eat as possible. That is my opinion that I came to after sorting through a lot of information from various sources.

[Ellie May]

So those against animal research because of kennels, what do you think we should do about the drugs our dogs take? They were all tested on dogs if they were made for dogs and many studies are done resulting in euthanasia. So why not just stop giving heartworm drugs and such because animals have been killed to do testing... Couldn't give many meds at all. And those that aren't tested on dogs are tested on rats.

Medical research animals are bred for this purpose and many are euthanized if there is nowhere for them to go. Sometimes animals are pulled from shelters for experiments. Do I like it? No. But until there is a better answer, I will support the practice as long as I don't have any info showing inhumane practices and all studies are at least somewhat important.

And if we think that these animals should be treated no differently than our pets, then I guess our pets get to have the next new veterinary surgery tried on them instead. If a healthy animal is needed to try an experimental surgery (for the advancement of veterinary medicine), then I guess there is no reason why said surgery shouldn't be tried on the Yorkies of YT instead?

[Ringo1]

Yeah; I'm not big on animal testing.

We don't breed and cage humans for doctor's to practice on an learn their craft; why should we do it with animals? Of course, they do learn on animals as well.

Surely, there is another way Vets can learn to practice their trade or a food company can test their food - without caging some poor animal for all it's life.

I hope I don't come back in my next life as any kind of animal! I don't want to be starved; malnourished; cooked; skinned; or killed in some mass production meat facility.

[aproctor]

Originally Posted by qraven

Hi.. I have not been on YT in a long time but was told about this thread and felt to add my babies story to it... please think twice before feeding BB. I lost my precious Sammie Sam due to kidney stones and my precious Berri just had surgery for the same and had way to many crystals in her tract that were not normal plus she is 5yrs and Sammie was 3 to young for this problem. The vet confirmed that BB was the problem !!!!! That is all I had been feeding my dogs do not get table scraps. I have the proof and so does BB and this is not the first instance as they have claim forms and they email them to you. Also after letting many others know what has happened to my babies I have been bombarded with emails on how BB has made others sick and how Vets had advised not to feed it... when you google BB cause Kidney stones you may not like it... but do as you wish I for one will not risk the lives of my other babies ... good luck to all of you that continue with this kibble

FYI Sammie and Berri became ill within months of each other.

Oh my gosh...so sad. I am so sorry this happened to your precious babies!!

[aproctor]

Originally Posted by Rhetts_mama

Really? I can't think of anything sadder than being stuck in a cage being tested on so someone else's pet doesn't get sick.

My thoughts EXACTLY!!!!!
WHY should some dogs suffer a horrible existence just so another dog may or may not benefit?
Medical beagle??? I had a beagle growing up and it was the cutest, sweetest, wonderful dog....it was never meant to be a medical beagle and suffer at the hands of researchers!!!

It is NEVER okay for ANY dog to suffer a horrible life for anyone and I believe these trials are cruel and inhumane?
If they were testing on Yorkies would it be different?
No animals should suffer-there are other ways of doing trials-not at the expense of a poor beagle.....

[aproctor]

Originally Posted by sallyann

OMG I just watched that video! Only part of it that was all I could stomach! It made me so sad! I will never buy P&G again or anything Iams. ALso will let everyone know how they are so cruel to animals.

I agree it is EXTREMELY disturbing that these dogs suffer!!! I cried when I watched it! VERY SAD!

[aproctor]

Originally Posted by Nancy1999

I'm sorry I feel for you, it was so hard to find a food that Joey liked and did well on. Of course, the reviews even confused things more. I don't think a food should give a dog gas, I mean if a food has more fiber than a dog is use to, it might take a week or so to get use to the added fiber and this could cause gas, but if it's going on longer than that, I'd find another food. Gas is a sign that they are not digesting the food, for whatever reason. Large piles of poop aren't a good sign either, I think there might be too much indigestible fiber in the food. I mean, are they getting enough nourishment, if they can't digest so much of it? Poop is basically what our bodies can't digest and don't need, a little fiber is good, it keeps the intestinal tract in good order, after all, we don’t want our dogs pooping pellets, but it may be too much of a good thing.

I have been feeding my labmix Fromm chix and veg and he has had gas for several weeks now...I never thought of it as it not digesting properly. I am on a search for a new food once again.

The strange thing is that for the first 5 years of his life I fed him Iams and he did very well with that....ugh!

[aproctor]

Originally Posted by Nancy1999

How do you suggest we test? First of all, dogs don't necessarily hate kennels, and kennels can be humane. Also, if a food isn't giving a dog proper nourishment, it's much better that they would be learned in a clinical environment where they are constantly checking blood samples and doing tests. At home you might not learn that the dog is severely malnourished until it's too late. I would hope the labs would be filled with dog lovers who ensure that dogs are being treated appropriately. I think we all should be against inhumane experiments, but not all experiments are inhumane. If the lab doesn’t test, you are the experimenter.

Originally Posted by Ellie May

I don't like that animals have to be tested on just as much as the next person (in fact, I hate animal cruelty and that is why I became a vegetarian). However, my dogs aren't going to be tested on (this is why I try to stay away from new drugs for them too). Also, the same does go for drugs. They are tried on research animals before your dogs. So you would really rather new drugs be tried on your dogs before tested on animals in a lab setting? If a food is so safe, then it should not pose risk in a clinical trial. And no kennels aren't always fun, but some companies do seem to be trying hard to treat their animals right. One company (forget which one) even has an agility course for their pups (which is much more than my dogs have). No, I'm not in favor of hurting animals by testing, but yes, I think most people on YT would admit that they would rather it be a dog bred for research instead of their own. Some do in-house testing with employees' dogs, but a lot of that is limited to palatability. And some (RC being one) do a lot with breeders that may be more extensive. I'd just hope some kind of trial is being done to show me that a food is digestible enough and isn't going to make my dog's bloodwork crazy if eating it for a few months. That's far better than just hoping the company knows what they are doing because a lot of them simply don't.

https://secure.peta.org/site/Advocac...rAction&id=611

Please watch this video. Seriously...if you think any kind of animal research is dealt with in a humane way by people who supposedly love animals....I don't know what to say. There is no way that this could be justified in any way!!
Never!! Even if this happened years ago this research facility still exists and I am sure they have not stopped what they are doing.

Originally Posted by Ringo1

Yeah; I'm not big on animal testing.

We don't breed and cage humans for doctor's to practice on an learn their craft; why should we do it with animals? Of course, they do learn on animals as well.

Surely, there is another way Vets can learn to practice their trade or a food company can test their food - without caging some poor animal for all it's life.

I hope I don't come back in my next life as any kind of animal! I don't want to be starved; malnourished; cooked; skinned; or killed in some mass production meat facility.

[tem_sat]

Here is some background information regarding the usage of drug testing for both human and veterinary purposes: http://www.deerhound.org/Health/Clay..._Medicines.pdf

[Taryn0405]

There's no easy way to debate this topic, especially since no dog owner wants anything undesirable to happen to any animal, bread for testing or not.

However, being the devil's advocate, like many other posters have said, if there wasn't animal testing, our furbabies would become the test subjects.

So I guess it just comes down to where do we draw the line with regards to animal cruelty? Is it more cruel to have test animals then it is to simply think the product is okay and mass produce it with the possibility of millions of animals dying as opposed to one or two test animals?

It's a sticky subject no matter where you go with it.

Do, I like animal testing? Absolutely not, I love animals. However, it's something that needs to be done not only to ensure our own fur baby's health, but for ours as well. Could there be more "humane" (granted I don't know any testing that could be considered human) ways to do it? Yes, however that would, inevitably, increase the price of the product.

So, it's a rock and a hard place no matter where you go with it.