Pancreatitis

[Nancy1999]

Originally Posted by lil fu fu girl

In actuality, this is not an assumption. Most vets, BCV nutritionists, and CCN's recommend a low fat high fiber diet, after the initial acute phase. Usually during the first 12-48 hours NPO is recommended. After that period if the pup has begun hydrating satisfactorily, and vomiting has subsided (for a period of 12-24 hours), the pup will then be placed on small, easily digestible meals. Over the next several weeks, after the initial phase of the attack, usually food is increased with the low fat high fiber diet.

When I mentioned that the pup was playing and that it had been over 9 days since the episode, my inference was that the "acute" phase, NPO was over. So the pup was being fed a prescribed natural diet, but with smaller portions. At this point, where the pup is eating again, a high fiber diet is recommended. Now in consideration that each BCVN will take into account each individual pups body system, high fiber, as I stated earlier, may range from 0.1 - 15.0%. It depends on each pup, and the diagnosis of the BCVN.
I have tried to post several white papers which apparently people cannot access without my log in. So here are just a couple that reference the white papers I refer to.

As I have stated this is the "usual" recommendations. There are always going to be different suggestions by different BCVN's depending on their training, their specialties, and especially considering the needs of each pup may be quite different. So what works well for one, might not for another.

I am sorry that your daughter has had such a rough time with her pup, but thankful that she has finally found something that worked for her. Oftentimes, it is more trial and error when working to define a nutritional guideline for a pup. No two seem to be alike; very much like humans.

Best wishes for your daughters little one.....




High fiber diet
High fiber diet

I'm confused, first you say, "Odd isn't it, that the one thing that would help them with fat digestion or expulsion is not promoted more by vets" then you say, "Most vets, BCV nutritionists, and CCN's recommend a low fat high fiber diet, after the initial acute phase. So which is it? Again, I'm a firm believer in fiber, so I'm not arguing the advantages of fiber, however, I didn't see in the links you offered a time when a more normal diet could be given. I really hope people listen to their own vets on this one. If rushed, before the digestive system is ready, it seems like another attack could happen.

[chatwizme]

Originally Posted by Nancy1999

Oh dear if the vet suggested stress brought it on and a road trip causes her stress, I don't think I'd go on the road trip with her. What would you do if she had an attack on the road? Is she always anxious in the RV? It just seems like you could lose her. There are ways to train a dog to become less anxious, but I don't even think you'd want to attempt that untill she's much better.

Concerning your other question, low residue means that they can easily digest ever little part, so there is not much work for the digestive system, and I would assume this means smaller poop and less of it.

The road trips cause her stress but she doesn't always get sick. The vet suggested giving her benedryl while we're driving because she gets upset and refuses to sleep no matter what we try. Then she's overtired and doesn't want to eat or play. She's in a carseat that she loves. Canceling the trip or leaving her home are not options.
It makes sense what you're saying about the food altering her pottie routine.

[Nancy1999]

Originally Posted by chatwizme

The road trips cause her stress but she doesn't always get sick. The vet suggested giving her benedryl while we're driving because she gets upset and refuses to sleep no matter what we try. Then she's overtired and doesn't want to eat or play. She's in a carseat that she loves. Canceling the trip or leaving her home are not options.
It makes sense what you're saying about the food altering her pottie routine.

I don't know if you have time to do it now, but they say you can get a dog use to cars by taking them on several short fun trips. Unfortunately, a treat is usually involved after the trip. I did want to tell you that my son’s dog has to take Benadryl daily because of allergies, and it doesn’t seem to hurt his stomach, and I know it does make them sleepy. You might want to check out HomeoPet, it was suggested by a vet to help a Mardelin's dog who panicked over flying. I’m not sure if you can give it to a dog with pancreatitis though, but you could check with your vet. Mary said it works very well to relieve stress, and no more fear of flying. There are also some aromatherapy sprays people have reported that offers some relief, if you’re not allowed to give her anything orally. Anxiety for Fear of Separation in Pets, Kenneling, Vet Visits and Grooming

[lil fu fu girl]

Originally Posted by Nancy1999

I'm confused, first you say, "Odd isn't it, that the one thing that would help them with fat digestion or expulsion is not promoted more by vets" then you say, "Most vets, BCV nutritionists, and CCN's recommend a low fat high fiber diet, after the initial acute phase. So which is it? Again, I'm a firm believer in fiber, so I'm not arguing the advantages of fiber, however, I didn't see in the links you offered a time when a more normal diet could be given. I really hope people listen to their own vets on this one. If rushed, before the digestive system is ready, it seems like another attack could happen.

Yes, Nancy....... that is exactly what I said. I wish more vets in daily practice would promote a high fiber diet, as stated previously. That was my somewhat failed attempt at being satirical in consideration the average vet does less than 2 semesters in nutritional science; so obviously they are not the best choice it planning a comprehensive diet for a pancreatic challenged pup.

Most physicians in research are academically educated in facets of nutritional science than the "vet down the street". So yes..Nancy, I do wish that they would take the time to educate themselves in Nutritional science.

As for you hoping that they listen to their vets nutritional advice, you go right ahead. I hope they listen to their BCVN first!

[Nancy1999]

Originally Posted by lil fu fu girl

Yes, Nancy....... that is exactly what I said. I wish more vets in daily practice would promote a high fiber diet, as stated previously. That was my somewhat failed attempt at being satirical in consideration the average vet does less than 2 semesters in nutritional science; so obviously they are not the best choice it planning a comprehensive diet for a pancreatic challenged pup.

Most physicians in research are academically educated in facets of nutritional science than the "vet down the street". So yes..Nancy, I do wish that they would take the time to educate themselves in Nutritional science.

As for you hoping that they listen to their vets nutritional advice, you go right ahead. I hope they listen to their BCVN first!

I'm not sure why the average vet needs more than two semesters of nutritional science, they can listen to the vets that are "experts" in that area, and two semesters would give them a great foundation for understanding the research. You say, you wish they would listen to the BCVN first, I'm not even sure what that is? I just mean I hope the listen to the vet's advice over some forum poster.

[lil fu fu girl]

Originally Posted by Nancy1999

I'm not sure why the average vet needs more than two semesters of nutritional science, they can listen to the vets that are "experts" in that area, and two semesters would give them a great foundation for understanding the research. You say, you wish they would listen to the BCVN first, I'm not even sure what that is? I just mean I hope the listen to the vet's advice over some forum poster.

It is a Board Certified Veterinarian Nutritionist, which was discussed earlier in the thread for anyone who had read this in its entirety.

Agreed that we can only hope that people actually listen to their medical clinicians.

However, we on this forum are asked to give our own advice, whether that be professionally inspired or personally experienced. To continually try to beat down people who offer their educated advice, which is different than yours, is as I said before, not assisting the original OP, but berating.

[Nancy1999]

Originally Posted by lil fu fu girl

It is a Board Certified Veterinarian Nutritionist, which was discussed earlier in the thread for anyone who had read this in its entirety.Agreed that we can only hope that people actually listen to their medical clinicians.

However, we on this forum are asked to give our own advice, whether that be professionally inspired or personally experienced. To continually try to beat down people who offer their educated advice, which is different than yours, is as I said before, not assisting the original OP, but berating.

Thank you, but I don't understand, why you can't answer a question without always putting me down? Your advice isn't different than mine, I'm a huge believer in fiber, I just don't think you've shown WHEN it's safe to use it again. How have I berated you? Seriously, I honestly was trying to learn something from you, but it's like when I question you, you tell me that's a stupid question, or I should have known that already, or I should just take your word that that what the studies say.

[TigerLily84]

My Lexi was diagnosed with pancreatitis a few weeks ago. I completely agree about the fibre as it was essential to her recovery, in addition to low fat intake, achieved with a special diet, Milk Thistle and probiotics.

High fibre was also recommended by my vet's nutritionist, as they stated that the best way to treat pancreatitis is to keep the digestive system flowing properly without over working the pancreas. Therefore, fibre is very important to assist with this process.

Agreed each dog is different but I highly doubt that fibre would harm any dog. Lack of fibre can pose serious problems or even kill humans and dogs alike. Obviously the fibre intake should be monitored as too much fibre can cause gas and diarrhea.

[TigerLily84]

I hope this thread doesn't cause a dispute. I know everyone is here to share their experiences and knowledge. Rather than lengthy back and forth messages debating another's opinion, just move on. The OP will take and disregard what they want from everyone's input, but a big thread of debates and disagreements helps no one.

Peace and Love... harmony means happy

[Nancy1999]

Originally Posted by TigerLily84

I hope this thread doesn't cause a dispute. I know everyone is here to share their experiences and knowledge. Rather than lengthy back and forth messages debating another's opinion, just move on. The OP will take and disregard what they want from everyone's input, but a big thread of debates and disagreements helps no one.

Peace and Love... harmony means happy

I was actually trying to learn something.

[lil fu fu girl]

Originally Posted by Nancy1999

Thank you, but I don't understand, why you can't answer a question without always putting me down?
I have not put you down, nor am I trying to, in point of fact it has been you continuously questioning my "personal" advice given to this OP. Whether it be your comment on "My assumptions being dangerous" or the confusion over my satirical comment. I have been beyond patient answering each one of your questions, even giving you further information and links, all which you have tried to negate by your comments.
Your advice isn't different than mine, I'm a huge believer in fiber, I just don't think you've shown WHEN it's safe to use it again. How have I berated you? Seriously, I honestly was trying to learn something from you, but it's like when I question you, you tell me that's a stupid question, or I should have known that already, or I should just take your word that that what the studies say.

Since you are being honest, allow me the same. Your behavior, or should I say your comments, were not those of someone trying to learn. Picking apart everything that is said by someone is not learning,it is berating. Something that you and I have had discussions about previously.

The next time you would like to have information on a study,or learn something from a poster or myself, perhaps you should do what most on this forum do....just ask....... for the links and research, instead of implying that the information given is wrong or invalid, which is what you were doing.

I try to offer my knowledge from my degree's and experience without berating others who offer their advice,whether their information is right or wrong in my eyes. I am not here to substantiate THEIR posts, and negate what they say. I am simply here participating with my offerings.

Believe me, if I were going to "put you down" I think you would know it. I just feel that there are better ways to pull information out of posters than the current style.

[Nancy1999]

Originally Posted by lil fu fu girl

Since you are being honest, allow me the same. Your behavior, or should I say your comments, were not those of someone trying to learn. Picking apart everything that is said by someone is not learning,it is berating. Something that you and I have had discussions about previously.

The next time you would like to have information on a study,or learn something from a poster or myself, perhaps you should do what most on this forum do....just ask....... for the links and research, instead of implying that the information given is wrong or invalid, which is what you were doing.

I try to offer my knowledge from my degree's and experience without berating others who offer their advice,whether their information is right or wrong in my eyes. I am not here to substantiate THEIR posts, and negate what they say. I am simply here participating with my offerings.

Believe me, if I were going to "put you down" I think you would know it. I just feel that there are better ways to pull information out of posters than the current style.

I didn't pick apart what you said, I wanted to know, do MOST vets think this, or do they think that? Which is it, because I don't know? Is that picking apart? I do think sometimes in your attempts to be snide or clever or one up people, you make it more difficult to understand your point. By the way, I try to keep threads separate, and while I disagree with one other of your views, I really wanted to agree with this view of yours, but I really needed to know more. I really don't know anything about you or your degrees, you seem very smart, and I'm sure you have a lot to offer, it's just I really think it's dangerous to take some forum posters advice over your vet. What I like to do is read the advice and understand it enough so that I can discuss it with my vet. If he can't make me understand or makes me feel stupid for questioning his authority, I’d find another vet. Some of the information we find on the net, may be cutting edge facts, but most of it seems to be nonsense or at least not safe. Anyway, I feel like I can’t ever question “your authory.” I did say, I didn't see in the links you offered a time when a more normal diet could be given.I don't think you've ever answered the question of the time period with scientific evidence. As I said before the links you gave didn't discuss this. I only wanted some data on the time period in which it would be considered safe to add fiber.

Again, and why is it necessary to tell me if you wanted to put me down, I'd know it, to me there is no question that's what you want to do, but I don't know why? I don't want to put you down, I feel like I've made you feel defensive, I'm sorry for this. My question is "Is there any data that says how long it takes the digestive system to heal after the first major pancreatic attack?"

[chatwizme]

My question is "Is there any data that says how long it takes the digestive system to heal after the first major pancreatic attack?"[/QUOTE]

This has become my question too. Sophie has definitely changed her elimination habits and I am trying to figure out how long I need to keep her on this strict diet of Hills i/d both wet and dry. I think she might need a little more fiber, that's why I bought the dry kibble. I don't know if that's sane logic. I also feel that she will stay 'satisfied' longer with the dry, but again, I'm a novice.
I'm really sorry my first question started a bit of a problem between people on this link that I'm relying on for help, thru their experience and superior knowledge. I want to thank EVERYONE for replying to my post, I am learning a lot, even tho at times I'm a bit confused.

[Maximo]

Originally Posted by chatwizme

My question is "Is there any data that says how long it takes the digestive system to heal after the first major pancreatic attack?"

This has become my question too. Sophie has definitely changed her elimination habits and I am trying to figure out how long I need to keep her on this strict diet of Hills i/d both wet and dry. I think she might need a little more fiber, that's why I bought the dry kibble. I don't know if that's sane logic. I also feel that she will stay 'satisfied' longer with the dry, but again, I'm a novice.
I'm really sorry my first question started a bit of a problem between people on this link that I'm relying on for help, thru their experience and superior knowledge. I want to thank EVERYONE for replying to my post, I am learning a lot, even tho at times I'm a bit confused.

No need for you to apologize. How have Sophie's elimination habits changed: frequency, consistency?

I agree with proceeding with caution and running everything by your vet to prevent a relapse or a complication. My boys may be suffering the effects of too much fiber today. Not sure if it was the very small addition of veggies to their diet or if they caught a bug, but they are sick. Getting better, so no need to worry, but they are not coming off a pancreatic attack, so it isn't that big of a problem.

[chatwizme]

Yes, Sophie used to do her biggest duties twice a day, quick and easy, no problems, like clockwork. Since this happened she's down to once in the evening and it's probably not even half the usual altho the consistency has improved. Just concerns me. She acts hungry and not at lot is coming out. I fed her maybe six or seven small meals a day with the wet stuff for the first few days then took it down to four. And for the last two days I've put her back on just the am and pm feeding. Hubby told me a little while ago that Sophie got up with him at 4 am and went to her bowl and he gave her a big dollop of the wet food. Sneaky girl! I am worried to feed her too much food but I guess she's hungry and I should give her bigger servings? Maybe feed her before bedtime? Oh man, I do not want her up at 4 am to eat and poop!